Hi Everyone!
I was just notified that I cleared Amherst College’s wait list. I have until Wednesday to make a decision. I wanted to get people’s perspectives on which school to choose. I’m interested in pre med with a more humanities based perspective. For a major at Penn, I was looking at Science, Technology, and Society for a major. I live in Massachusetts, so my parents would want me to stay in state during the summers for internships. Personally, Penn is bigger than I would have liked, but Amherst is a little smaller. Also, I want to be in a more urban setting. I know that Amherst ha the five colleges, but Penn is obviously the more urban of the two.
A few questions I have about Penn are:
How difficult is the pre med curve? Do med schools know that this in place? Does this lead to a particularly competitive atmosphere?
I was pre admitted into the Ben Franklin Scholars (Integrated Studies) program. Does anyone have any perspectives about this? From what I’ve heard, perspectives on this program have been decidedly negative, but I’d love to hear more about it.
How pre-professional is Penn really? Does this lead to a more competitive environment?
Anything you guys have to say would be much appreciated!
@235423
The schools are quite different and will give you different college experiences. Specifically for pre med there are both pros and cons for Penn but I think the pros outweigh the cons.
Cons:
yes penn does no have the grade inflation of other Ivies like harvard and Yale by I am not sure how elite lib arts colleges are with grade inflation either, I ptesume it cannot be that much better but dunno. The curves can be harsh and there is a lot of competition. BUT if you play it righ and are truly committed I do not believe the conpetition will prevent you from attending Med school. By playing it right I mean: choose a relative easy major and spread out the med school requirements wisely so that you are never overloaded and can always give 150% of you effort to them. For med school it doesn’t matter what you study, just your grades, also studying something other than chem, bio, sciences will prob give you an edge because you will be diversity. ( I know ppl who followed that strategy and it worked). Study smart and be proactive. If there is anything that I have learned after a few years at Penn is that you need to plan ahead and be super proactive at all times in order to excel academically.
Pros
Research: penn is a global medical research powerhouse. What is more important is that undergrads have easy access to reaserch opportunities with Penn Med and HUP. Even as a freshman you can get reserch position and end up working for big names in medicine who are scientists/doctors at Penn. Also he hospital is right on campus so the access is very easy.
This is a huge plus for med school adnissions because a. The penn med and HUP name carries a lot of could in the med world and will look very nice on you resume b. Penn has some of the best and most respected medical professional and getting a letter of recommendation from them for med school will go a long way.
Also the acceptance rate of Penn grads into Penn Med is one of the highest in the country ( i.e Penn medical school shows strong preference to applicants who were penn undergrads). Of course you know that Penn Med had always been one of the very best medical schools in the country and world, generally considered only a bitche below harvard and Hopkins. So having that extra advantage to one of the best medical schools is a plus.
Lastly, in terms of internships and career opportunities Penn’s outcomes are second to none. Penn is probably the most targeted college along with harvard and the career statistics on Penn’s career services website prove that. also to answer your question, penn has a very strong pre-professional element but I think what makes penn special is that it strikes a good balance between pre-professionalism and liberal arts.
Both are amazing opportunities and it depends what kind of experience you are looking for but I feel penn has more to offer outside the classroom in terms of research, extracurriculas, internships, social life.
Most of the relevant points have been made in the post above. I just want to emphasize 2 things:
- In reality, equal percentages of Penn and Amherst students are accepted to Med School. About 75-80% of applicants from each school are accepted in any given year. From Penn's Website:
"How successful are Penn’s pre-med students in gaining admission to medical school?
Penn is a premier school for pursuing pre-medical coursework. Medical schools know that it is a rigorous institution, and that students who excel here are well prepared for professional success. Penn students also have access to excellent research and clinical volunteer opportunities, which enhance their medical school applications.
Every year, Penn students fare well above the national average in applying to medical school. The statistics we have regarding applicants for Fall 2013 admission to medical school demonstrate Penn’s strength as a “pre-med school.” Nationally, only 43% of the individuals who applied for Fall 2013 admission to allopathic (MD degree-granting) medical schools matriculated. However, among the 317 Penn applicants (both current students and alumni) for Fall 2013 admission, 230 of them, or 73%, matriculated (76% were accepted)."
Source: http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/parents.php
Though as @Penn95 mentions, Penn undergrads are the most heavily represented group in Penn Med and they benefit greatly from the unparalleled access they have to the Med School, Hospitals, Research centers and more. Furthermore, the atmosphere at Penn is much more collaborative than competitive on the whole. Of course kids want to do well and they work hard-- but it is not a cut throat environment by any means. Penn’s reputation as the Social Ivy is evidence of the high premium student place on building strong friendships with one another even amidst the high level, intense academics. And Penn is definitely pre professional, but it isn’t overwhelmingly so if you don’t want it to be that way. It is easy to find communities (the Kelly writer’s house, Philomathean society, the innumerable literary/arts/etc. hubs on campus) that do not give off pre-professional vibes at all. Penn’s size allows it to be both large enough to support an immense diversity of interests while ensuring that no one set of interests predominates over the others.
- Penn's definitely a little larger but your experience with Penn's size will depend greatly on who you are as a person. If you want the feel of a small liberal arts college, that is definitely easy to find. 95% of Penn College classes are taught by actual faculty members (and the grad students are the faculty of tomorrow, so they're pretty great too). And the class sizes, especially in the College are extremely small (usually 20 students or fewer). The College houses at Penn will also create an environment in which you feel as though you are immersed into a small community of intellectually curious classmates. And the BFS (integrated studies) program is actually really cool! The hall you live on is notorious for being extremely close and remaining friends even through senior year (the first class admitted under this model is graduating this year and many of them are still very close). It is an interdisciplinary approach to a variety of subjects that students find both rigorous and rewarding. Finally, through clubs and extracurriculars, Penn will never feel like it is truly composed of 10,000 undergrads (or 6400 in the CAS). If you don't want to feel like just another number at Penn, you never have to.
Honestly both schools are outstanding and will give you the leg up in med school admissions and life that you want. That being said, Amherst (the town) and Philly/Penn are TOTALLY different in terms of living environment. You should think carefully about whether you want to be in a larger city or a small town. Philly has more art, culture, restaurants, night life, festivals, etc. etc. etc. Amherst is a great town that has many attractions but it cannot compare to Philly. Penn has a healthy balance of campus life and city living that you can tailor to your own preferences- whereas Amherst College is sort of the only show in town for Amherst students. Something to think about. Good luck- you really cannot go wrong!
Penn’s competitiveness:
Students seem to work together to get things done, when possible. There are a lot of talented and hard working students, but they don’t usually approach it as competing with other individuals. The premium on social relationships may play a role in this.
Penn grade inflation:
Grades levels are lower than Harvard or Yale, but higher than Princeton, Cornell, or Columbia. I am not as familiar with Brown or Dartmouth.
Penn’s pre-professional vibe:
I thought this was a positive. By a couple of months into freshman year, students are writing resumes, creating linked-in profiles and talking to career services about potential internship and research opportunities for their first summer. Pre-professional students seem to jumpstart other students who may not have thought that they needed to get focussed on it that early. I also like that Penn students are thinking about their futures from the beginning. They may make numerous revisions along the way, but they are still thinking about it, and discussing their interests with each other.
I think that is a big advantage over many schools where the students think about going to school for four years, and then think about what they want to do for work once they are done. I don’t think students should be planning everything around their future career, but being completely oblivious to it is even worse.
Hospital next to campus:
This is a huge plus in terms of opportunities to get involved in research, or becoming an EMT or PA or other intermediate careers that a pre-med student might choose.