<p>I hate to be off topic, but I've always wondered how Penn, Brown, Columbia, etc. have been able to raise their yields and be more selective over the past two or so decades (I've heard somewhere that Penn's acceptance rate was 42% in 1990) while Cornell's statistics have remained largely the same. I'm pretty sure that 20 years ago, Cornell didn't get any shtick for being the 'worst Ivy' or abuse from Penn students like in this thread. Any insights, CayugaRed2005? You seem to be an expert on all things Cornell.</p>
<p>heavy use of early decision i believe (for penn anyway)</p>
<p>Wharton...
Penn does not disclose the disparity between Wharton and the other colleges, but Wharton's acceptance rate is near HYP which helps their overall rate.</p>
<p>I think "worst ivy" talk, all that junk talk mostly blew up with huge population of Asians born in the late 80s-90s who are first generation and basically using USNews as justification for what colleges to go to, also more want HYPS, etc. I don't want to be quoted on this, but from what I think, there probably are a LOT more applicants to HYPSM in the 00s than a decade ago, and I'm pretty sure the amount of Asian applicants only rises each year with that.</p>
<p>^ that, my friends, is prejudice.</p>
<p>Aaanonymous - actually, I'm going to have to agree a bit with Lollerpants because I too was pigeon-holed into the whole rankings/stats game while completely ignoring probably the most important factor when it comes to choosing where to go - fit. But all that changed, and I am incredibly proud to be(come) a Cornellian.</p>
<p>Many Asian parents are immigrants and all they drill into their children is HYP and S, while not mentioning the other Ivies.</p>
<p>I'm just speculating. I'm Chinese as well, and statistically speaking, how many Chinese people did you know who were not pressured into attending HYPSM? I sure was, and yeah, not saying that it's right or anything, but it's simply true that the Asian cultures tend to place a lot of emphasis on education and especially for first-generation Asian-Americans, there are at least MANY who want to attend HYPSM. </p>
<p>I don't have the statistics, but because of globalization and immigration especally in the 80s and 90s, would you not agree that the amount of Asian applicants HAS increased over the years? </p>
<p>If so, do you agree that thereby the amount of applicants TO HYPSM has ALSO increased? </p>
<p>From that, is it true or not that many Chinese kids want to attend a very prestigious school, ivy more so than state, and HYPS more so than "other ivies"?</p>
<p>I'm not agreeing with any of that as being right or wrong, I'm just stating what I see as a general trend.</p>
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<p>Actually... Penn's acceptance rate was 47% in 1992 and was in excess of 50% before that.</p>
<p>True, Cornell is more prestigious than Penn in places other than the US, especially in Asia.</p>
<p>Let's not get into the whole prestige debate please...</p>
<p>lollerpants: after you made the clarification between being first generation and prestige schools, i can see why you would say that. in a way i do agree that fire generation asian immigrants emphasize prestige. but then again, i don't think i can claim that this is a trend without looking at the number who said, "i applied to HYPS because i'm asian and my parents emphasized prestige." overall, the hypothesis may be true, but i found the logical leap following the premises a little too far for comfort. nothing personal, of course.</p>
<p>and as a possible rebuttal, i would answer your questions by speculating that proportions of non-asian applicants has risen comparably. anyone have the numbers? if asian applicants have risen, then it may support your conclusion, but perhaps not the direct cause to the rise in asian applications.</p>
<p>In the US Penn is more prestigious overall. I am talking about Wharton and CAS here. I am sure the party scene is very comparable, considering penn is known as the "social ivy" and everyone seems to have a great time there. Also Ithaca is honestly an awful college place, its in the middle of nowhere and there is nothing to do. Yes, Philly sucks as a city, but at least its something. Really, these schools are so different on so many levels (location, academic interests, student body ect..) that this shouldn't be too hard a choice for you.</p>
<p>I assure you....Ithaca is not the middle of nowhere and there is plenty to do. I live in the middle of nowhere.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that like every Asian does that of course, but I mean just from a quick survey of your friends who are Asian, how many actually fit that category? Given that that may not be a good statistical test at all because of the level of bias given demographics and what not, but just as a quick random survey of it how many people do you know fit that? Because maybe my case is strange then when virtually everyone fits that (from my Asian friends, including me as well). </p>
<p>Well one big thing is that I am FAIRLY confident that the % of Asians in HYPSM, Ivy, etc, have all risen comparably compared to the 1990 numbers. I say that supports my basis the most because that directly proves that the # of applicants have increased, though you may not make a fair logical jump to that correlating with all Asians aiming for HYPSM but if I had numbers I'd also be fairly confident that the ratio of Asians applying to HYPSM today and 1990 is a much larger difference than let's say arbitrarily, the ratio of Asians applying to the top 15-20 (USNews ranked) schools ratio of Asians applying today and back in 1990.</p>
<p>Though this will get nowhere because I do not have these numbers, but I'm just speculating that this is one of the causes why Cornell gets kinda singled out if anything as being the 'worst' ivy and all that crap.</p>
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Though this will get nowhere because I do not have these numbers, but I'm just speculating that this is one of the causes why Cornell gets kinda singled out if anything as being the 'worst' ivy and all that crap.
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<p>This only happens on CC...</p>
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I hate to be off topic, but I've always wondered how Penn, Brown, Columbia, etc. have been able to raise their yields and be more selective over the past two or so decades (I've heard somewhere that Penn's acceptance rate was 42% in 1990) while Cornell's statistics have remained largely the same.
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<p>Columbia and Penn have largely benefited from a resurgence in urban America. Twenty-five years ago, many parents second-guessed sending their child to Morningside Heights, let alone the West Side of a bombed out Philly. The neighborhoods for these schools have gentrified nicely. And even though I am not a fan of an urban setting for an undergraduate experience, a lot of kids are attracted to it.</p>
<p>The other thing to mention is that Penn uses ED in a very aggressive fashion. Roughly half of all entering students every year are accepted ED. It's pretty easy to appear "selective" with such aggressive ED use.</p>
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In the US Penn is more prestigious overall. I am talking about Wharton and CAS here.
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<p>I don't think anybody is denying that Wharton have a better reputation (for what an undergraduate business education is worth) than most any other undergraduate business school in the country. And nobody is denying that Cornell isn't better than Penn when it comes to engineering. But the idea that Penn and Cornell are anything but equals when it comes to the arts and sciences is laughable. As I said before. It is a wash. Cornell has the edge in the hard sciences. Penn has the edge in the social sciences. And they are roughly comparable in the arts and humanities. It comes down to individual student interest. Rural versus urban. Laid-back versus uptight. Hockey team versus no hockey team.</p>
<p>I was wondering when Bescraze was going to jump in and bash Cornell for the 2173091827321908379th time.</p>
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The other thing to mention is that Penn uses ED in a very aggressive fashion. Roughly half of all entering students every year are accepted ED. It's pretty easy to appear "selective" with such aggressive ED use.
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I don't think that an agressive use of ED is used to appear more selective. I think it's more to combat Tufts syndrom. Penn had a large problem with yield and doesn't want to be second rate to any school (for better or for worse). Penn has enough strong applicants (as seen by our average SAT score of admitted students) to reject applicants who have shown no indication of interest or preferance. Penn goes so far as to give 0 legacy consideration unless one applies ED because of the large numbers of legacies who used Penn as a safety. Whether that's good or bad, is your opinion. It's not like Penn takes weaker students just because they apply ED. It just tries to avoid accepting students it feels are only applying because Penn is an Ivy. </p>
<p>I wouldn't go so far as to say Penn students are uptight, especially for an Ivy. They aren't as laid back as students at Brown, but I don't really feel that the majority of people at Penn are elitist. There are always stuck up trust fund kids at every college in America, and probably more at PEnn than at a mid level state school. However, there are lots of down to earth people here too. I really liked the people when I visted Cornell and felt that they were the most down to earth out of the top schools I visited. However, especially for someone going into engineering or science, Cornell isn't really more laid back than Penn.</p>
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I don't think that an agressive use of ED is used to appear more selective.
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<p>I don't pretend to know the motives for Penn's admissions committee. It could just be a silly coincidence, but the fact of the matter is that Penn does use ED more aggressively than many other schools, and the selectivity numbers that everybody oohs and aahs about get a resulting boost.</p>
<p>Nor do I think that Penn has large problems with yield. What was it, over 65 percent last year?</p>
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It's not like Penn takes weaker students just because they apply ED. It just tries to avoid accepting students it feels are only applying because Penn is an Ivy.
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<p>Conversely, it is giving students who require financial aid and need to compare packages an even bigger disadvantage in the college application process.</p>
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However, especially for someone going into engineering or science, Cornell isn't really more laid back than Penn.
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<p>Considering the relative amount of pre-professionalism (and pre-business, especially) found on Penn's campus, even in the engineering disciplines? Yes. It is.</p>