Penn vs Duke for ED

College Search & Selection
1

<p>So my dilemma is applying for admission early to either of these phenomenal schools for fall 2016.
Stats:-
SAT 1 :-2330 (780-M 760-CR 790-W)
SAT2 :- Bio 730 (M)
Chem 770
Maths 2c 670 (will reappear)</p>

<p>I am an international who doesn't need aid and holds a permanent residency of the US.
GPA not applicable mostly As some Bs senior year is slightly low due to personal reasons but i am looking to arrest the decline.
School does not rank but I am taking the most rigorous courses BCPM.
AP Eng Lit -5
AP Eng Lang-5
AP Bio -5
AP Chem (will appear)</p>

<p>Strong ECs :-swimming, rugby, public speaking, MUNs, Dramatics, Student Govt
Private Elite High School which is a feeder to ivy plus group.
Interned at a prestigious research laboratory in genetics (a position usually offered only to graduates)
Took the TOEFL :- 112 (i had a splitting headache)
Chance me please and elaborate about some of the strengths and weaknesses of both schools.
I prefer Duke because I think it is far more prestigious (right after HPYSM in USNews since the inception of the rankings in 1983) and is excellent for Biology and Pre Med. Also it has a beautiful campus and a good collegiate atmosphere. My parents however vehemently disagree they think Penn is better known internationally probably because of Wharton and are obsessed with the ivy league status. I also like the school but am genuinely concerned that CAS students may get overwhelmed by the Wharton kids, also can someone shed some light on the confusion between UPenn and Penn state because that really is quite off putting. My grandparents also want me to attend the Ivy (narrow minded international mentality) but conversely my peers (all Internationals) hold Duke in much higher regard. How do I resolve this apparent conflict of interest and is there a significant difference between Duke's trinity and Penn CAS in terms of academic opportunities and prestige. I am leaning towards Duke but I need to convince my parents who are shelling out the dough. Please help with my dilemma.</p>

2

<p>Duke, IMO, is more well known and seen as more prestigious than UPenn. Go up to a random person on the street and they will think your talking about Penn State. I say only go to Penn is you get into Wharton Business School.</p>

3

<p>

No.

So is Penn.

Very true.

I’ve never understood this mentality. Econ majors have reason to be nervous, I suppose, but how on earth is a history or nursing major competing with Wharton students for resources?

No.

Then apply ED.</p>

<p>Penn is one of the two or three universities I would seriously consider if I had to do college again and wasn’t allowed to pick Duke. I don’t think you can go wrong either way.</p>

4

<p>Ah, I love CC. </p>

<p>Your differences should have started with location… by far the biggest difference between the two, and prestige should not even have been mentioned. The CAS concern is downright silly. </p>

<p>If these were your original criteria during your college search, you should probably - and I am trying to be sincere - revise your search to include things that might actually be important in your life.</p>

5

<p>There is literally zero prestige difference between these two. Choosing one over another will literally have zero impact on your career or future. Sometimes in life you get to make decisions based on what your heart desires, and this is one of those situations. Pick the school you like more.</p>

6

<p>For overall liberal arts, these two schools are quite comparable. At the graduate level, Penn actually has more top-10 liberal arts departments than Duke, but that really shouldn’t be a factor in choosing between these schools for an undegraduate experience. Penn and Duke are so close in terms of the overall academic prestige of their liberal arts programs, that this choice really should be based on personal preference and fit.</p>

7

<p>I was accepted to both Duke and Penn, and I’m international as well. I agree that Penn is relatively unknown among even the slightly well-read crowd abroad. My peers, some of whom are headed to elite American schools like Berkeley, still don’t know that it’s an Ivy! That said, do the opinions of the general public even matter? You can rest assured that every Graduate school and decent employer will know what Penn is. If not, you can just write Ivy League next to Penn, and I promise no one will miss it. :wink: Also, opportunities out of Duke and Penn are pretty identical. Although I think you can get more opportunities from Penn than Duke, if you truly stand out as a superstar on campus during your time there. But that’s just my personal opinion. :)</p>

<p>In the end I turned down Duke because of the terrible aid. Penn and Columbia were just a lot more generous (Columbia more so, but Penn eventually matched their package). I also wasn’t a fan of Duke’s location. The American South, especially for an international student, just isn’t the most inviting place in the world. Philly is disgusting, but it’s also diverse and lively. And the community around Penn is by far the most lively in the Ivy League. After all, Penn’s known as the “social Ivy” for a reason. :)</p>

<p>Now that I think about it, even if I had the same aid package from Duke I would’ve chosen Penn. It’s just an amazing place to be. Even when I was comparing it with Columbia, which my friends and family begged me to attend, I couldn’t forget my first experience of walking down Locust Walk when I just felt at home, felt welcome, and felt like this was the place I’d want to spend every second of my undergraduate years at. </p>

<p>Duke was… well, let’s just say the experience wasn’t even close to comparable to Penn. The arrogance of some members of the student body and the jock-obsessed atmosphere wasn’t attractive either.</p>

<p>Hope you found this helpful. :)</p>

8

<p>

Yup. Despite Penn having one of the strongest programs in my field and Duke not offering it at all, one of the students I beat out for my graduate program was a student from Penn. (She was very nice, and I’m somewhat sorry she didn’t get in.) Both schools have a tremendous amount of resources for their students; I’m skeptical there’s much one can’t do with a degree from either. </p>

<p>

It should come as no surprise that I disagree vehemently with pretty much all of this. I’ve known international students from Italy, Romania, India, Bahrain, Singapore, Ethiopia, and probably more I’m forgetting, all of whom absolutely loved their time at Duke. Southerners are famous for hospitality - and rightfully so. Personally, I’d love to be back in a place where people don’t look at you like you’re going to mug them when you wish them good morning on the street. ;)</p>

<p>“Arrogance” is a term that gets thrown around with often little accuracy. I just finished my master’s at a public school, and students at the private school across town are often called wealthy and arrogant. On the contrary, I found them extremely grounded and friendly. I’ve heard people say much the same about Harvard. To be blunt, there is nothing like being surrounded by 6000+ students exactly as smart and talented as you (or more so!) to absolutely eradicate any sense of arrogance. Will you still find some? Sure. They’re far from being the rule, however.</p>

<p>I am not quite sure what you mean by “jock-obsessed.” </p>

<p>(1) If you mean obsessed with Duke’s sports teams, I disagree. Duke students tend to follow men’s basketball fairly closely, and many do tent for UNC games, though that’s increasingly mostly a freshman thing. There is a huge drop-off in interest in sports beyond that, even for Duke’s other good teams (e.g. women’s basketball). As a matter of fact, a number of graduate students I knew at Duke were exceedingly bitter because they had to buy tickets to games, whereas the free undergraduate section at games was scarcely ever full. (During my freshman year, Wake was also a tenting game. No longer.) I think it’s a bit unfortunate myself, but eh, to each his own. You’ll find many people in the library working on game nights, or at the very least working on homework while watching the game on the TV in the dorm common room. I know many people who could work at sportscasters for ESPN – but I also know people who could name one or two current Duke bball players at best. </p>

<p>(2) If you mean they’re a mostly athletic bunch, I agree. Well, healthy might be more accurate than athletic. The gyms are usually running at full capacity, and many students play an intramural sport. At any given time, you’ll see at least half a dozen people jogging on the lovely path between East and West campuses.</p>

<p>I have extremely fond memories of Duke - playing frisbee on the quad, curating my own exhibition at the art museum on campus, hanging out with friends in the Gardens, sailing at the Marine Lab, having dinner with faculty as disparate as the schools of environmental science and divinity, going to LDOC concerts, celebrating with friends after we finished our senior theses…there’s not much I’d trade them for. Of course, that’s not to say that Duke is perfect, because I don’t think any school is. I have to rack my brains fairly hard to come up with complaints, though.</p>

9

<p>srw, I love Pomona. I’d be happy to answer your questions. I’m actually a current student. I don’t really want to change the thread though, so feel free to PM me.</p>

10

<p>I would personally side with Duke, although the decision is entirely a matter of personal fit. I’ve participated in summer camps at Duke, and on each occasion, have been very impressed with the kindness and openness of the southern culture that I was able to be a part of, albeit for only a week or two at a time. As an added bonus, Duke is a member of the ACC – the mecca of college basketball. Duke’s team is perennially dominant, and the culture that surrounds Duke basketball is enthralling. Duke is almost guaranteed to be one hell of a college experience – if you are looking for the kind of work hard, party hard culture that Duke is about. </p>

<p>I have a friend who is starting his sophomore year at Penn this fall, and who has nothing but the best to say of his experience there. He’s in the school of engineering, although he has taken a large amount of Wharton classes. From what he has told me, I envision the Penn student body to suffer minimally – if at all – from friction between Wharton and non-Wharton students. </p>

<p>Penn and Duke are both terrific universities, and both will set you up equally for success after college. I suggest a visit if possible to both campuses to decide which to apply to early, as they are very different experiences, although both are great.</p>

11

<p>My son is a Penn grad- CAS but some Wharton courses, too. The only time there seems to be a focus on Wharton v. CAS is freshman year as everyone is sorting themselves out. After that, there isn’t really any jockeying for position. My son also really grew to like Philadelphia- much more than I do and I grew up in the area! There are wonderful restaurants and clubs, and the older Penn students take advantage of them. There are also better opportunities for off-campus jobs and internships than Duke can offer, since Philadelphia is so much more of a city. My son’s work experience while at Penn was a big factor in his successful job search.</p>

12

<p>If I were you, I’d consider EA to Yale.</p>

13

<p>Thank you for the advice but would you care to elaborate a little on the positives of applying EA to Yale as opposed to applying ED to Duke. I am considering a career as a physician but that is subject to change in the future as I broaden my academic horizons.</p>

14

<p>If I were you, I would consider SCEA to Stanford–on account of your athletic and research background, and your outstanding standardized test scores, all of which make you competitive for the “best” schools.</p>

<p>bluebayou’s point, with which I agree here, is that you could do better, given what you’ve got.</p>

<p>However, if you intend to bind yourself to either Duke or UPenn, one or the other, then Duke–for the same reasons you ought to consider Stanford.</p>

15

<p>^^also concur with S. </p>

<p>Yes, there is a good chance that you end up WL’ed at Y or S early, but with those numbers, Duke is a pretty good shot RD, as is Penn.</p>

16

<p>

</p>

<p>LOL!</p>

<p>No real distinction btwn the 2 schools w/ regard to “prestige” and if anything, even if a person blanks on Penn (just as likely to blank on Duke, btw), if one says “it’s an Ivy League” that pretty much takes care of it.</p>

<p>Just go w/ the school that has stronger programs in your area of interest and take into account whether you would like to spend the next 4 years in a more urban or rural setting.</p>

17

<p>I heard from couple of kids that attended SEAS at Upenn that Penn graduates have better job prospects than Duke graduates. % of graduates who found job after graduation is high compared to Duke and also they got higher average starting salary. </p>

<p>I want someone who attended there to confirm or deny this.</p>

18

<p>Does it really matter? In the first place, employment statistics are easily manipulated. Secondly, Penn sends a LOT of students to the NYC area to work…their salaries have to be higher than many/most colleges…</p>

19

<p>As a NC native who has taken undergrad classes at Duke and is enrolled at Penn for graduate school, I would say the two have different appeals. </p>

<p>Duke > sports, more attractive campus IMO, NC weather, southern prestige (Charlotte, Atlanta etc), cheaper living expenses
Penn > Ivy prestige, urban setting, proximity to northeastern metro areas</p>

<p>I have a sister that did her undergrad and law at Duke who absolutely loved her experience there. And previously not caring about sports, she got caught up in the basketball fever there and would camp out for tickets. If it was me I would probably choose Penn (I know many people who wouldn’t make that same decision). </p>

<p>If your parents are paying it might be a good idea to give their input some thought. That said, you can’t really go wrong. They are both great schools.</p>

20

<p>One cannot go wrong here. Those two schools are equal in every way. I would understand the OP’s parents point of view if the OP were intent on majoring in Business, but in all other respects, the two are both excellent. I would recommend going for fit, and it seems from the OP’s opening post that he is more set on Duke.</p>