Penultimate discussion results - progress!

Parents Corner
1

<p>Not final yet, but my son and I had the big talk - we evaluated the pros and cons of his still-in-the-running choices in detail and discussed financial implications.</p>

<p>As I have mentioned, I was worried that he might be fixated on Harvard - he was worried that I would rant and rave (?). I haven't done any of that, but perhaps because he knows I'm a CC addict and had delved into the research end of the process, he thought I would have strong a priori opinions. I suppose this is what comes of the spring musical interfering with April Decision Month -no time or emotional leisure to contemplate or discuss, so both parties assumed that the other one was dug in on some unknown position.</p>

<p>His definite first choice is Oxford University. He said "it's me." (Reminding us both of the 'Paris Original' song from How to Succeed, whereupon we sang a snippet as a duet "It's me it's me it's absolutely meeeeeee."). Here are the positives and negatives he brought up that we discussed:</p>

<p>Pros</p>

<p>-England
-Direction of the Philosophy, Psychology, Physiology major - he said that because he is interested in just about every subject, he'd have a tougher time choosing courses at a US school and would be at risk for drifting - is very interested in all three of these subjects
-tutorial instruction - advance rapidly, defend concepts, motivation to be prepared every day
-social adventure (residential colleges, EU kids, etc.)
-long term breaks, suiting his style of intense effort followed by a rest period
-campus/town awesome
-encourages development international perspective
-good vibes from the people - Henry Higgins returns home (another role, in which he agreed that he was typecast)
-degree in three years
-a plus for graduate schools & opens up graduate school opportunities abroad
-wonderful theatre opportunities (Fresher's drama competition, intense theatre and comedy groups)
-lots of singing opportunities (e.g., an Oxford male a cappella choir performed twice at his high school, he thought they were great and would like to audition)</p>

<p>Cons</p>

<p>-expensive - would clean out his college $ resources
-would have to be very frugal with spending money (cup of coffee $5, etc.)
-would necessitate a post-BA year if he decided wanted to apply for medical school = cost + time (he'd probably end up taking the courses at Maryland)
-would necessitate a TA, RA, or fellowship for graduate school as I will have extended my contribution somewhat beyond the 'comfort and ease' level.</p>

<p>Second choice on the merits would be Harvard - Chicago, JHU and U Bristol are out. From the standpoint of overall value, he liked Emory quite a bit, liked BU/UPP, and liked Maryland. </p>

<p>We both have task assignments - I am going to get some of his questions answered from these three schools and he is going to solicit a firm $ contribution level from his father. He also agreed to seriously consider taking the Oxford year abroad at one of the three remaining schools versus doing the three years abroad (a savings of from $80K-130K). Tuesday night is the "Ultimate Discussion." </p>

<p>Here we are, going down to the wire. Any thoughts appreciated, as always!</p>

2

<p>Yulsie:</p>

<p>Not sure from where you hail (Land of Two Keys?). But, the Fiske Guide has a great discussion on going to overseas Universities, at least as it pertains to US kids. You can probably find a copy at a local Barnes and Noble. </p>

<p>Essentially, the gist is that Oxbridge et al are very tough transitions for American kids, primarily because the British entrants are typically older (gap year), and are more thoroughly prepared from thier HS equivalent. Also, the creature comforts of home just aren't there (what, no Starbucks, no wireless hotspots, no cable?. LOL)</p>

<p>fwiw: they also mentioned that Univ of St. Andrews was the most similar to American higher education. If I recall, the former provost/dean at St. Andrews was recruited long, long time ago to redo Princeton's curriculum to what it is today.</p>

<p>The H option, AND a year abroad (junior year?) seems to be a great solution.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

3

<p>England
-Direction of the Philosophy, Psychology, Physiology major - he said that because he is interested in just about every subject, he'd have a tougher time choosing courses at a US school and would be at risk for drifting - is very interested in all three of these subjects
-tutorial instruction - advance rapidly, defend concepts, motivation to be prepared every day</p>

<p>Comment on above: Definitely a pro for Oxford if your S is absolutely sure he wants to major in one subject. But as bluebayou mentioned, European kids are better prepared for college than American kids. This is due to earlier specialization, and is especially true of Oxbridge students whose A-levels are equivalent to one year of an American college education.</p>

<p>-social adventure (residential colleges, EU kids, etc.)</p>

<p>comment: well, Harvard at least as Houses after the first year. They were modeled after Cambridge (UK).</p>

<p>-long term breaks, suiting his style of intense effort followed by a rest period
-campus/town awesome</p>

<p>comment: agree on these. But Cambridge/Boston is rather nice, too!</p>

<p>-encourages development international perspective</p>

<p>8% of Harvard students are international.</p>

<p>-good vibes from the people - Henry Higgins returns home (another role, in which he agreed that he was typecast)
-degree in three years
-a plus for graduate schools & opens up graduate school opportunities abroad</p>

<p>comment: cons already mentioned.</p>

<p>-wonderful theatre opportunities (Fresher's drama competition, intense theatre and comedy groups)
-lots of singing opportunities (e.g., an Oxford male a cappella choir performed twice at his high school, he thought they were great and would like to audition)</p>

<p>comment: Tons of those at Harvard. I think there are 9 a capella choirs at Harvard, several orchestras, choirs and choruses, an Early Music Ensemble, and so on and so forth.</p>

<p>I can see the pros and cons of both options. Not much help, I'm sorry. But what great choices!</p>

4

<p>With an undergrad degree from Harvard and an M.Phil. from Oxford, I feel I should weigh in here but, apologetically, as I don't have much to offer - a tough choice - but congrats to him for being in such an enviable position! 'Good vibes from the people' - I've heard that international students at Oxford face a bit of a backlash these days as unis here are going after nonEU students because they pay full fees - many stories in the media here on how overseas students are getting in with weaker credentials. There's always been an anti-Yank bias at Oxford - Chelsea wasn't exaggerating! Just something to consider. And those long breaks between terms are great but will he have to vacate his rooms? Does he have a place to go? It's a great opportunity to travel but will the weak dollar crimp his style? On drama - I agree, much much more going on at Oxford than Harvard. And yes, Oxford is more 'international' than Harvard, but does it have as much diversity in other terms? Tutorials - 'motivation to be prepared every day' - daily tutorials? Is he sure about that? Which college will he be at?</p>

5

<p>I second the which college question.</p>

<p>For the record, we do have starbucks here too...and running water and inside toilets to boot. (oh my)</p>

<p>I just had a quick comment on the relative preparedness of UK students. It's true that A Levels are theoretically more rigorous than a US high school education, but bear in mind that for PPP, most people will not have studied any of the subjects in high school. Well, I suppose a fair amount will have taken psychology (not all), but I doubt there are many people out there with A Levels in Philosophy and Physiology.</p>

<p>As far as the weak dollar goes...he could always get a job during breaks (I'm pretty sure Oxford still frowns on people working during term time, but it can be done.)</p>

<p>Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I had the impression that Harvard doesn't really encourage students to study abroad?</p>

6

<p>Larry Summers is determined that Harvard students WILL spend time abroad whether in the summer or during term time. He has a hard row to hoe. Most Harvard students prefer to stay at Harvard (ditto Yalies and P'tonians) and take advantage of the enormous array of courses their school offers, the ECs they're engaged in, etc...</p>

7

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<p>My Harvard a cappella group sang with the Oxford Gargoyles, a coed group, during an international tour. There are, hands down, WAY more singing opportunities at Harvard than at Oxford -- more musical styles represented, and more different group philosophies (in terms of time commitment, audition strictness, etc.), and more groups period. As I recall, the Gargoyles were extremely impressed by the singing "scene" at Harvard when they paid a visit the following year.</p>

<p>Ditto theatre -- there are far more high-quality plays going up every semester at Harvard than even the most devoted actor could hope to participate in. There are excellent comedy groups as well as a Freshman talent show and Freshman Musical.</p>

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<p>Sounds like the Mind, Brain, Behavior track at Harvard would suit him very well.</p>

8

<p>Yulsie, a very difficult decision for your very talented son. I wish him the best.</p>

<p>I had to laugh at your quote from "How to Succeed"...my D just played Rosemary in her school's production, so I got a smile.</p>