Harvard or Yale? Opinions, please.

Parents Forum
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<p>The decision has pretty much come down to H & Y for my son. It’s an enviable decision to have to make, but not an easy one. Looking for insights from all you knowledgeable parents (current and former students, too, if you’re here).</p>

<p>S has strong academic interests in four wide-ranging areas: chemistry (possible major) followed by (in no particular order) religious/Judaic studies, music, and mathematics. He’s a social kid -- laid back, funny, unpretentious. Needs a very strong Jewish community, but both schools meet the requirement, and that piece of the equation he’s able to figure out on his own. </p>

<p>I’m wondering about the relative strength of chemistry and math at Y v. H. I know Harvard has a stronger reputation in these areas. But at this rarefied level, does it really matter all that much? </p>

<p>On the music front, he is an accomplished pianist -- conservatory-level, but no interest in going to conservatory. He has kicked the tires fairly hard at Yale, less so at Harvard. Opportunities at both schools look good, but he would welcome learning about others’ experiences in connecting with excellent private teachers (full faculty? grad students? teachers in the broader community?) joining chamber ensembles, performance opportunities, competitions, etc. Anyone involved in the Harvard Piano Society? </p>

<p>He will attend admitted student events at both schools (no previous overnights at either) and in the end it may come down to gut. Yale has been his first choice since we visited junior year. He loved the residential college system, the beautiful urban campus, the general vibe. Both the tour and info session were led by astonishingly impressive students. When we visited Harvard, all we saw was the underside of our umbrellas (obviously not H’s fault!), and the tour guide and info session were uninspiring (luck of the draw, I realize). What we didn’t fully realize until last Monday is that when Harvard knocks, you do think over your choices carefully. He is still leaning towards Yale, but keeping an open mind. </p>

<p>Thanks for any and all info, suggestions, and opinions.</p>

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<p>wjb many congratulations to your son!</p>

<p>When my s, also a pianist, was looking into colleges, he felt that the piano opportunities at Harvard were better than at Yale, particularly in terms of getting an instructor. At Yale it is very difficult if not impossible to get the top piano teachers; undergrads must often have to work with grad student teachers. Harvard has excellent piano teachers- my s worked with one in a masterclass so can attest first hand. He has a number of good friends there who have studied with outstanding piano teachers. There are also many opportunities to attend concerts in Boston and students get free/cheap passes. </p>

<p>I'm sure he'll learn a lot from his visit! Let us know how it works out.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Andi, and thanks for the info. Nice to "see" you! Yes, we learned that it's even tougher for undergrads to get lessons with full profs now that Yale has eliminated tuition for its graduate students.</p>

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<p>Nice to 'see' you too! That must be a brutally hard decision to have to make. I suppose it also depends on how much he thinks the piano will matter to him in college.</p>

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<p>You might want to post this in the Harvard and Yale forums. Also the music forum.</p>

<p>Less likely to get the pea-green-with-envy replies that a general forum like Parents might generate!</p>

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<p>My son didn't even apply to Harvard, falling in love at first sight with Yale (and beng admitted EA). Same experience as you -- fantastic tour guide at Yale, blah one at Harvard. The first group he joined was Yale Friends of Israel and he's vey much enjoyed that organization. What he doesn't like about Yale is what your son would seem to like -- if you're not in some musical group or another, you're really missing out. His suitemates who do music and/or theater are busy all the time, having fantastic experiences. Good luck to him in making that choice!</p>

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<p>Look, they're both wonderful. Traditionally, Yale is slightly more undergraduate-focused, it is both a little artsier (in my day, a third to half of undergraduates were involved in some sort of music making on a regular basis) and a little preppier, and I think the Yale version of the residential college system works better than the Harvard one because people have four years together, not three (and there's a lot less stress around housing in the spring of freshman year). Also, lots more of the rooms have common rooms, which is nice.</p>

<p>Yale has better songs, although "Fair Harvard" is infinitely superior to "Bright College Years". Cambridge is much nicer than New Haven -- but you knew that. I think Harvard has the nicer campus, but lots of people love Yale's imitation of Oxford.</p>

<p>I am not competent to judge their relative math and chemistry strengths. More math jocks seem to choose Harvard, but I know of a couple who have chosen Yale (with a choice).</p>

<p>It's not a "brutally hard decision" at all. There is absolutely no downside to either. They are both completely wonderful. Your son could flip a coin, or use darts, and that would be a perfectly good basis for choosing. He can pretty much use any criterion he wants, including tour guide attractiveness or color preference, and come out fine.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
What he doesn't like about Yale is what your son would seem to like -- if you're not in some musical group or another, you're really missing out.

[/quote]
Funny, I felt exactly the same way about Harvard!</p>

<p>I agree, I don't think you can make a wrong choice here. My preference was Harvard many eons ago - honestly it was as much about family tradition and a favorite aunt and uncle in the Boston area as anything else and Boston vs. New Haven of course. Harvard seems to have more of a math and science reputation than Yale, but I'm not at all sure it's based on any real data.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies, all. I agree that there's no bad choice to be made here, but choose he must, so he might as well be armed with as much information as possible!</p>

<p>Andi: You mentioned that your son has friends who have studied with outstanding piano teachers at H. Are they H students studying with H faculty? Do you by chance know how the audition process works and if it was highly competitive?</p>

<p>Lafalum: When posters pose these kinds of questions (College X v. College Y) on the individual college baords, the rabid partisans often come out in force. I posted here because the parents give less biased, less emotional responses. :)</p>

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<p>^^^^ You have a valid point there!</p>

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<p>I would suggest letting his choices sit for a bit...let it go..let him ponder...and after the visits, he will have a clearer view, and one day, someone will ask him where he is going, and the college will just roll off his tongue and it will feel right</p>

<p>you can sit and over analze this ad nauseum</p>

<p>So I would suggest one week of no discussion about this whatsoever, and I am serious about that...no research, nada...let it be...and with that time, your son's priorities will clarify, because, he may THINK he wants to continue one path but if he doesn't have others influence, he may think differently after looking at the options</p>

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<p>cgm: The approach you're proposing is often the right one, but in this situation, I'm raising these questions because my son asked me to. I'm not driving the decision -- just trying to help him gather data.</p>

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<p>wjb,</p>

<p>My D visited both schools, and said that while she would be happy at the one she did not choose, the visits made her choice obvious and easy. Hopefully, the visits will do the same for your son. Good luck!</p>

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<p>But that might be good advice to give your son....let go of the process until after his visit...he will see that some of the stuff he is so focused on will lose a bit of their priority once he visits the schools</p>

<p>While its important to look at details, sometimes the bigger picture can get lost</p>

<p>THere were students who only wanted colleges with ponies and then discovered they disliked alot of other things and the ponies didn't makeup for the rest of it</p>

<p>So, my advice would be to tell your son to look at the forest as well as the trees</p>

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<p>Congratulations! </p>

<p>My son was in the same situation last year, he was considering H, Y and S. Same as your son, he is a pianist (plus a violinist). After visiting all three colleges, he ended up at Y.</p>

<p>One of the factors he considered was his piano study. He felt that he has more opportunities at Y. After he enrolled at Y, he took an audition, and he was choosing to study with a professor from Yale School of Music once a week and counted as a credited class (by the way, he got an A in his first semester on the piano class too). It is not easy to be chosen to study with a professor from the music school, however, it seems that your son won't have any problem. </p>

<p>Now our son is considering a pre-med path and also continuing his piano study. He is extremely happy with Y and with this piano arrangement.</p>

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<p>I thank everyone who has posted. On another thread, my motives for starting this thread are being called into question. For the record, I've been on these boards for many years. I have received help, tried to be helpful to others, and have not been a grandstander. I started this thread to get information, not to brag. (And not to ask others to make my son's decision for him!) Someone wisely recommended going to PM for information. I will do that. I'd just as soon let this thread die now.</p>

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<p>So sorry to see you have to let this thread die, wjb. It is great to "see" you again!
Most of us know you are not "grandstanding", and your question is a legitimate one. There is a wonderful member of the music faculty at Harvard who was at Vassar when I was there many moons ago. Andi's recent experience with the music opportunities in Boston is obviously a perfect guide, as is zzzz's. Yale is perceived as a little more "crunchy granola" than Harvard, if your son cares about that one way or the other. Does he care about the residential college system? The secret societies? Any of that stuff? The residential college system is a great benefit, IMO. That said, Boston is a more fun city to be in than New Haven... Decisions, decisions.... </p>

<p>I had a relative who was a faulty member in the Biology dept at Yale (he has unfortunately passed away) and my bro was a biology major at Yale many years ago. Does your s want to do research? Does he know what he wants to do it in? Did he talk to faculty or grad students in the chemistry or math depts at either school? That might help him decide as well. </p>

<p>You are fortunate to have such a wonderfully tough decision. Congrats!!! Don't let the cc trolls get you down! Its been a tough year for admissions and people are still licking their wounds. Don't take it personally.</p>

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<p>My D chose Yale for the food. I'm serious.</p>

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<p>I'm glad you started this thread. My S could be following your S's footsteps in two years so I'm soaking up all the information. Congratulations to your S and keep us posted. :)</p>

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<p>I agree on both points. And the main reason Yale has better songs is that Cole Porter was a Yalie.</p>

<p>If you want to hear Fair Harvard, turn on your speakers and click on this:</p>

<p>Harvard</a> College Parents Fund</p>