<p>Is it fair to say that spots at the "top" MT schools go to kids who have gone to performing arts high schools? My d. has gone to stagedoor manor for the last three years and has seen how wonderful the kids from the performing arts schools are. Is it hard to compete with them if you have been in a public school, performed in the school plays, and taken voice lessons and dance lessons?</p>
<p>Some performing arts/arts high schools ARE public. In fact, I daresay many are.</p>
<p>I think the answer to this question would really have to be answered by those that audition students and accept them into their college programs. On the surface going to a performing arts HS does indicate the student has a passion and intense interest in the field. On the other hand will that extra training work to their detriment in the analysis? You can find postings on here of people that found a late interest in MT with very little training and got accepted to MT programs. Did the auditioner take that in account and think if they are this good now how much greater will they be with training? On the other hand would they look at someone with a lot of training and think after all this training this is only as far as they have gotten? </p>
<p>Another question comes up with summer programs. I've seen it written that about 1/2 of those at programs get admitted. So maybe the additional exposure by the school to a student's talent is a plus in some cases - in some cases knowing that student for more than 4 minutes at an audition or while they were not at a more advanced level works against them. </p>
<p>In the end what you hear time after time on here is it boils down to the audition....and factors such as ensemble selection. They are compared to that season's auditioners.</p>
<p>Going to a performing arts high school certainly helps, as it offers students lots more opportunities and better training. And if there had been one in our area, my S would certainly have gone. His school doesn't even offer theatre classes, although they do have teachers who direct plays. I think it sometimes says a lot more about the dedication of the student to theatre when they have to go those extra steps to pursue it. He's had to go outside of our area for voice lessons and acting/monologue help. He has also become a fierce advocate for the arts at his high school. Two years ago a director had a very difficult time casting a musical with 9 parts, and the spring production this year has a cast of almost 40. A large part of that increase is because of my S, who has done everything possible to advance interest in theatre (including persuading some of his friends on the football team to audition for sailors in South Pacific). It's just a shame that these auditions are so brief, and the schools really don't have the time to spend to get to know the individual.</p>
<p>To my knowledge, there are really only a few (less than ten) arts high schools in the US that offer enough quality pre-professional type training to make a big difference in college/conservatory admissions and most of those emphasize straight acting over MT. I'd estimate that each of those graduates an average of around seven per year that are serious candidates for top BFAs and even fewer are real triple threats going for MT, so I don't think kids that do not have that advantage should be overly concerned about having to compete with them.</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents, my D attends a high school with a lousy performing arts department, and yet made it into some schools, so it is entirely possible to get into a top program coming from a regular high school. We do have an actual performing arts school in our region, but it did not reallly offer the kind of 'combination' training my D was looking for as it caters to singers, actors or dancers individually, not MT, and their curriculum underscores that. </p>
<p>That said I do feel that training (along with talent of course) can make an important difference in this process. At some performing arts schools (not the one I talked about above :)), you get a lot of daily training, whereas if you attend a regular high school, you will need to seek that training outside of school, which at times can be quite challenging. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I know last year of someone with extensive training who is having a hard time getting accepted, and others, with barely any training, who are making into top programs. In the end, I think it winds up being about the audition, the preparation, how someone presents him/herself, is perceived, and, the absolutely subjective "if they are the right fit for a program" in the eyes of the adjudicator.</p>
<p>I do think it must be nearly impossible to get true "triple threat" training while spending 7-8 hours a day attending school, especially if the student is taking the most advanced courses, like AP or IB classes, that require a lot of extra work. Trying to add in voice, acting and dance classes on top of that, at least at performing arts schools they are getting some of that training as part of the school day.</p>
<p>My D is at a public performing arts school and I like everything with schools there are great public/private performing arts schools and there are not great ones. Her schools provides her with EXCELLENT dance training - classical ballet and some modern guests, but as a dance major she has had to drop choir and drama classes. Music theatre is not a major at her school, just a class. Yes it helps with time issues that she can dance 3-5 hours a day at school and doesn't need to drive to other locations, but dance commitments this year kept her out of the school's musical and although she has had some featured roles, dnace students rarely get anything more than that because they are always an hour or more late to rehearsal.
D only sings in private lessons outside of school and has to supplement the dance with tap and jazz esle where. Sometime soon she will have to do something about acting since she only does this in productions currently.</p>
<p>I don't know what performing arts schools kids going to Stage Door Manor are attending. It may be quite different at different locations, but most of the ones I know kids have to select the area thay want to major in, so picking up the other two still requires a good amount of outside time.</p>
<p>There is a wide variation in PA schools, and how they treat things. My one caution would be to carefully examine not only the PA classes, but also the academic ones. I know of 2 schools where the college acceptance rates are abysmal, because the kids don't have the test scores and quality HS courses to get in to quality colleges. No offense to those in PA schools - of course, there are other PA schools where the academics are totally top-notch, but it is something to examine if you are considering attending a PA school.</p>
<p>While I think that some kids in the applicant pool to top BFA in MT programs attended a PA high school, MANY did not. You definitely can get in without having gone to one! </p>
<p>We have no public, nor private PA schools in our entire state. My child grew up in a rural area and went to public school. We also have no drama classes at our high school. Our school put on one play and one musical per year. My D got all of her training outside of high school. She was successful in the BFA admissions process. She has other friends from our rural state who also attend many of the well known BFA in MT schools, including her roommate/pal at her BFA program. </p>
<p>While I am sure my kid would have loved a PA high school, it wasn't possible. Yes, she had to compete against those kids for college but I think the main thing is to get training and also experience in productions. I don't think it matters so much how and where. </p>
<p>By the way, to the OP, my D also attended Stagedoor Manor....for 8 summers, 16 sessions. Her friends at SDM, as well as herself, did not attend PA high schools and all landed at top BFA programs, and a few kids opted for top BA programs even if they got into top BFA programs. Her peer group from camp, again none were from PA high schools.....went onto NYU/Tisch, CCM, CMU, UMich, Syracuse, Ithaca, Emerson, BOCO, UMiami, NCSA, (as well as accepted but not attending Penn State, and others), off the top of my head, as well as Yale, Brown, and Northwestern (many to each of these colleges, both BFA and BA). I don't know your child's peer group at camp but again, my child's friends over an 8 year period were not from PA high schools and most landed at the top BFA programs and colleges in the land (granted her friendship group tended to be the kids who had many leads and were in OTC, and so forth). Please be assured that a PA high school, nor a pre-college program, is required to get in (none of these kids did either), including my own child. Someone posted last night that a girl from camp whom I know got into UMich and Tisch/CAP21 and I can tell you that she attends a private day school that is not a performing arts school. Many of my D's peers from camp are now on Broadway or National Tours, as well. So, yes, from this experience, I can tell you that you can come from anywhere. My kid comes from the middle of nowhere...a town of 1700. There are some kids at her BFA program (CAP21) who had gone to PA high schools but plenty who didn't. As I said, my D's pal/roomie at CAP21 also comes from our rural region, from a public high school and actually both girls have gotten a couple of lead roles at Tisch so far and so please know that you can come from any background, but just need to have some training and experience in order to be good at auditioning.</p>
<p>Thanks to all of you for your input. My daughter is heading into this audition process and your knowlege and input is greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>Doesn't matter where you go. If your talented, you have the look, and the "it". You will get in.</p>
<p>Tom - True, but she is a kid who is in all AP's (she's not dancing and singing 6 hours a day). She does dancing and singing outside of school. We're struggling to find acting outlets as there is only one school show a year. She did play the lead in that, but so has probably every other kid on this board played the lead in their school play.</p>
<p>racmom, I am not a performer myself and far from an expert, though I have learned a lot hangin' around with the experts on these boards. And I think that training is more important, in the long run, than being in shows, whether the shows are in school or in the community. It sounds like your D takes voice and dance classes outside school. Have you sought out any acting programs, such as summer programs, where she can get some more intense training in acting, too? Summer programs not only can provide training, but also can do two more important things: give kids a taste of what a BFA program might be like (or, at least, what it's like to do acting, voice and dance hours a day, five days a week or more) and gives them a chance to be around A LOT of peers who also are performers. This is not only fun for the kids, but also gives them a chance to see how they measure up against others in their peer group.</p>
<p>Racmom, if it makes you feel any better, again, my D's friends from Stagedoor, as well as herself, who got into well regarded BFA programs, took very challenging courseloads and were (and still are) very good students. My D had to take dance and voice outside of school. She was in school shows but she sometimes did shows outside of school and for us, that could mean very far away. Even voice was 50 miles away and our dance studio was 25 miles away. Many kids who are successful in this field are EXCELLENT students taking very demanding curricula (some of these kids even went to top private day schools) and then take all their training and productions outside the school day. It can be done. Please know that this happens to be the norm for the kids my D is friends with who went to Stagedoor and successfully got into top college programs. By the way, my D had no acting classes except at camp. Like your D, my D was also in quality youth productions at summer theater camp.</p>
<p>NMR.....Racmom's D went to SDM for three summers and apparently is an applicant to CMU Pre-College. It sounds to me that her background is pretty normal.</p>
<p>Hind sight is 20/20. If we had known four years ago what we know now, ( mostly because of CC! ) we would have tried to send our D to a summer program somehow ( they're expensive! ) and given her more outside training, instead of spending her summers getting a head on academic courses to free up her schedule during the year so she could take three to four electives at her public PA school. We were very foolish. Yes, she's gotten to do some wonderful dramatic shows and musicals and she's traveled extensively with her Vocal Jazz and Chamber Choirs, but in the end, it didn't make enough of a difference at her audition. In the drama and musical theatre dept, her school tends to focus on the glory of the productions instead the hard training. At least that's what happens most of the time. We got hip way too late. She didn't start serious private vocal lessons & acting coaching till this past summer, and it pains us because we've seen the huge progress in just this short amount of time. We can only think why didn't we do this sooner!</p>
<p>So , I agree it doesn't matter that your d's not in a performing arts school. Not counting a few of the great ones, High School PA schools can often be in their own little world with no global perspective. It looks like going to one of these wonderful summer programs can provide a much better chance of success! If we had only known!</p>
<p>I've been telling every sophomore and junior parent that will listen to me to come to this board and get educated so they can figure out in time what will work best for them.</p>
<p>To be totally fair... her school has put on some fantastic shows and often brings in pros ( from Broadway & Touring companies ) to either choreograph or direct or both. But still, it's always within the context of the show and there's never enough time to be able to really workshop and help each individual student to the extent they probably need help. I've seen some students developing bad habits and not being corrected because the the staff has to move on and put up the show. :-(</p>
<p>NMR - Yes, my daughter did have acting classes at Stagedoor (and loved every minute of going there). She applied to Carnegie Mellon's summer program for this summer.</p>
<p>Thanks Soozievt and NMR for your input. Like all the other parents on this board, I would really like to see her happy at a great program. She says she can't see herself doing anything else at all. I'm just trying to help her by getting as much info. as I can and then pass it on to her.</p>
<p>racmom, please forgive me! That's what I get for multitasking when reading CC! Clearly, you guys know what you are doing and don't need my amateur hour input at all. :) I am sure your D is in great shape already and CMU precollege is a wonderful program that will get her really ready for auditions.
I do feel that I need to speak up, though, for arts high schools, or at least the one my kid attends. It is a very small school (about 70 graduates a year in acting, theater tech, visual art, music -- vocal and instrumental -- and dance) with admission by audition-only, and the focus is on training and NOT on performing or doing productions. In fact, freshmen year, no one in the Actor Training Program performs at all, except during exercises in class. Subsequent years, they do perform, but not in big, lavish productions. They do "scene nights" (musical theater, Shakespeare, one acts, etc.) and only do real plays (never musicals) senior year. (This year, for instance, they did a Lanford Wilson play and will stage a series of Moliere one-acts in May.) Quite a number of each year's senior class (I am talking the actors here) go on to study at the best known conservatory college programs, including Juilliard, Purchase, CMU, NCSA, Minnesota/Guthrie and others. I recently spoke with two of the young men now at one of those programs about how they liked their freshmen year, and they told me that what they were doing in college was very much the same as what they did freshmen year. One reason my husband and I agreed that our D could audition for this school was because it is so training based, and not all about doing show after show at the expense of training. (Before anyone jumps down my throat, I do recognize that there are many arts schools that do shows and provide training both. I am just talking about one approach and why, as a parent, I find it valid and worthwhile. I should also mention the school day runs from 8:15 to 4:15 p.m. with only one short break for lunch.)</p>
<p>NMR....believe me, my D would have loved to have gone to a PA school. There are NONE in our state. A few kids we know in our state have gone away to a boarding PA school. That was not an option for my D. I do envy that at a PA school, some of the training is during the school day. For us, we had to add it all on....afternoons, nights, weekends and then of course, it was all far away due to where we live. So, not knocking PA high schools. Sound great if you can go to one. I just want to reassure Racmom that you do not HAVE to go to one to be successful in this process. Same with summer pre-college programs. Both are great things to do. The main thing, however, is to get training, supplemented by experiences doing theater. Where you do it is not as crucial as doing it.</p>
<p>Again, many thanks to both of you. Very rarely do I ask a question, but I always enjoy reading both of your responses that you give to people. It seems like this process is much more difficult (and time consuming) than the ordinary application which my other daughter went through last year.</p>