<p>soozievt, no question your D would have loved being at an arts high school, but she sure did well/is doing well without having gone to one!!
I aactually was addressing my post more at a previous post that noted that some arts schools don't have enough of a "global perspective," which I took to mean that they are too insular and too focused on staging performances. I may well be wrong about what was meant by "global perspective," though! :)</p>
<p>Racmom....
You wrote:</p>
<p>
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It seems like this process is much more difficult (and time consuming) than the ordinary application which my other daughter went through last year.
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</p>
<p>I can assure you that your assessment that the BFA process is much more involved and in most instances, much more competitive, than regular college admissions!!! Like you, it was my second child who applied to BFA schools. I had thought regular college, albeit elite college, admissions was tough with the first one. The BFA process has way more to it and the odds are even more daunting and subjective in many respects. I'm in the middle of this for the third time personally as my oldest is now an applicant to graduate schools of architecture which reminds me of a BFA in many ways because the odds are very long shot and the artistic review is a huge component. My kids haven't taken easy paths, that is for sure. We all do get through this...I can tell you that! (I did just get a happy call from D about an acceptance and big scholarship though and so today is a good day though way more to go in the process)</p>
<p>NMR....yes, I understood that and agree with ya! </p>
<p>(again, my D would have loved it but she made do with what we had)</p>
<p>I attend a performing arts high school (OCHSA), and I wouldn't say we have an unfair advantage in getting into BFA programs.
At our school, we do train A LOT. We are at school everyday until 5 in a conservatory type atmosphere. It would be the same as if you were to see a private teacher, except not in a public setting with your peers giving you feedback.
Students from our school very often get into great schools, and sometimes get rejected from great schools.</p>
<p>So I'm not thinking they take high school versus performing arts high school into that great of consideration, if, any.</p>
<p>Matthew, I agree that the colleges don't take into consideration that you went to a PA high school in terms of any advantage in their decision making. Simply, those who attend them, have access to training and all during the day (the rest of us have to find it at night and weekends and so on). But the colleges don't care where you went to high school. But training does help. You guys are lucky to have all that at school. For example, we have no drama classes at our school or in our area. </p>
<p>Anyway, my D is friends now with some kids who went to OSCHSA who now attend Tisch/CAP21 with her. Seems like OSCHA is a great school and you are lucky to have that option for the experience itself, as well as the fine training (not because of any admissions advantage necessarily).</p>
<p>I can't speak based on much experience and had wanted to avoid commenting until after all the school letters have arrived, but this thread is so relevant to what my family is mulling over now that I thought I'd just go ahead and summarize our own experience since it might help families similar to ours. </p>
<p>After having watched our daughter go through the audition process this year, my impression is that the type of intensive training that NMR's D received at her PA school (or if such training is available by other means) is critical if the kids (especially girls) are to have a reasonable chance at being accepted by the 15 or so most highly-selective BFA programs. </p>
<p>Our D attended summer programs (including CMU's), received some additional instruction outside of school (on the order of maybe 4 hours a week for a couple of years), and has been one of the most successful kids in productions and choir in our relatively large public academics-oriented high school and in the local community theatre. Given that, we'd assumed that she would have been reasonably prepared in the skills needed to translate her talent into an effective 3-5 minute audition. Instead, the feedback we've received is that while she's plenty talented ("as talented as any of the kids we've chosen," according to a very-helpful auditor at one of the most well-respected programs), she's not sufficiently trained, both in the ability to translate her stage presence into an audition and in the general training needed to survive in college freshman classes with kids who have years of performance education under their belts.</p>
<p>It has been said a few times on CC that some schools might actually prefer kids with talent but who don't have much training, based on the idea that schools might prefer to start with a fresh slate. Hopefully one of those schools is still among the few that my D's still waiting to hear from! But as has been said more often, it comes down to the audition, and if lack of training impairs a student's ability to display their talent, then she's starting off at a huge disadvantage. </p>
<p>My main point is, I thought I had some understanding of what would be needed, training-wise, and I was wrong. If we could do this over again, I would have been a lot less trusting of the opinions of the two coaches my daughter worked with most, and we would have gotten "second opinions" from at least one other experienced person regarding the audition style and material. I would have also realized that the training our D was getting in her public school - the endless 6 a.m. show choir practices, the hours of rehearsals after school and on weekends for plays, etc. - probably turned out to be of little value in learning how to crystalize into a few-minute audition period all the talent, intensity, desire and skill needed to impress the auditors who are seeing hundreds of talented kids. I also didn't realize how clueless her high school fine arts teachers were when it came to college MT programs and what the audition process entails.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that if you're like my family, your kid is going to be competing against others who have as much talent but who also have the benefit of years of intensive, focused instruction from teachers who know what it takes to be competitive (in the audition process at least) for the top programs. This doesn't mean you should just give up. Instead, seek out additional coaches, if you happen to live in a a part of the country, as we do, where theatre isn't big, then spend a few weekends traveling to meet them, be pleased if they say nice things but be stubborn and get different viewpoints. Find teachers who will push your son or daughter past their comfort zone and who aren't hesitant to give difficult-to-hear criticisms. Realize that no matter how much reading and research you do, if you're (like me) not really clued into the world of theatre and it's demands, it's really difficult to assess what our kids need and to judge on our own whether they're prepared. Leave enough time for your kid to experiment with audition styles and materials, and realize that even if your son or daughter leaves them in tears after a stage show, there may still be a lot of work needed to learn how to get that across during an audition.</p>
<p>Matthww - Sorry if I was confusing with my question at the beginning. I don't think the colleges care where the training came from, but I would think if you are in a performing arts high school you are going to have that much more experience than a regular high schooler.</p>
<p>flhope - from my D's audition experience this past fall, I wholeheartedly agree that those who are well prepared have a leg up. There are different ways to do so, and, although it is very true that attending a summer program and/or going to a PA arts school can help, it is also true that any training/experience still needs to translate well into the audition and, the selection of audition material.</p>
<p>I know that my D will be forever grateful that, aside from her regular training, she had the opportunity to work with an MT college audition team that helped her get ready; they offered a "fresh and objective view" of who she was, and help her better understand her strengths. I was very worried about spending money for this (those audition travels add up quickly), but I was genuinely surprised how reasonable it was compared to say her regular voice lessons, dance training, acting etc.</p>
<p>This is where PA schools differ from each other greatly. At my D's school they do not help the kids prepare for college auditions. They do train them, but the guidance counselors no surprisingly little about what it takes to get into BFAs, and the vocal and drama departments do not work with kids on their audition materials, unless you take a private lesson with them.
My D gets her audition experience auditioning for local professional and semi-pro theatre and community theatre and an occassional national. Through these she has had to learn what to sing a prepare for specific shows and is increasing her reportoire. It drives her PA crazy that she auditions outside of the school because as it was said above the program is rather insular. THey see the kids in one light for too long and don't push them to move outside of that vision.</p>
<p>At my D's CMU singing audition she was praised then asked whether she had attended a performing arts high school (she had not). I believe that several admitted did indeed come from performing arts schools. Who knows :confused:.</p>
<p>Oh my gosh.. I've been formulating a reply but now that I've read these last few eloquent posts, especially flhope's, I'm just going to nod my head in HUGE agreement. I REALLY can relate to ALL the points you've made. Thank you for saying it so well.</p>
<p>One size doesn't fit all and I guess the same goes for PA Schools & getting ready for college auditions.</p>
<p>I wish the PA HS in our area had a better reputation for academics because that is where my D would have been. She auditioned... was accepted on the spot and then we looked into the academics and decided against it. I really wanted her to go to that kind of HS but we decided to spend the money on lessons, gas, etc. and just send her to the public HS for the academics. I think my D would have thrived in a smaller community surrounded by people who are more like her. I know this because all the colleges at the top of her list are all smaller conservatory type colleges. I remember going to Penn State's campus and she wanted to leave as soon as we got there. Now of course PA high schools aren't for everybody and they certainly aren't all the same but I would guess that just being around other seniors that are all kinda going through the same thing is helpful. My D doesn't have 1 friend in her HS that is going through all this. Needless to say she did ok and does have a place to go come September but it would have been great to have friends other then through facebook and email that she could have talked/commiserated with. I guess what I am trying to say is that it would have been nice if it worked out for her to go but it didn't and she did OK anyway.</p>
<p>An earlier post commented that it was reported somewhere that about half the students who attend summer programs get accepted at that school. I'm curious about the source of the article because it seems inconsistent with what the majority of my daughter's friends from 2 summer programs experienced. From one program with 60 kids and one with 24, my daughter can count on one hand the number of kids at each school's program who were thereafter accepted. </p>
<p>In my opinion, attending a summer program to get an admissions "leg up" at that particular school is the least valid reason to attend. Do it for the training, for the experience of working with a group of equally talented and motivated h.s. performers, do it to test the waters of how you enjoy the intensity of a focused MT program, to get a sense of how you would enjoy the school, or even how you compare to other highly talented students who will likely be applying to BFA programs; but don't do it because you think it will give you special points to boost your chances of acceptance.</p>
<p>Kimoki, I was curious, what school were you referring to as the PA school in your area?</p>
<p>CAPA in Philly. You can go there from Montgomery Co. but you pay tuition and then you have the Phila Public School curriculum. The Philly kids have to test to get in just like Central and Girls High but they don't have to pay. But unlike Central and Girl's High they don't have all the AP and Honors classes. I am not sure of all the specifics but that's what I remember from 4 years ago. I also remember the prinicpal showing us computers that the students that wanted to take AP and college credit classes had to use to take them online. The funny thing about all of this is that I thought it would be great for her to be downtown near the theater area on the Avenue of the Arts. Now she will be there 4 years later.</p>
<p>I'm very thankful for my training I am receiving and I'm very thankful that my school has one of the best academic programs in the county.</p>
<p>With our family it all comes down to money. I couldn't send my s to any private lesson's voice, dance, acting , nothing, let alone a summer program. He learned everything from doing shows and working with his teachers. That also leaves out applying for "top programs" because of the expense and distance from home as it would be expensive just to come home or us to go visit him. So we just stuck with auditioning for 2 programs that are sort of close to home. Even though we are eligible for need based aid it still isn't enough and I don't want my s to have a lot of loans when he graduates. But he just loves MT and he is so dedicated I can't see him doing anything else so instead of the big fat acceptance envelope we are waiting for the big fat financial aid package..lol</p>
<p>Kimoki, have no regrets. You made the right choice. Knowing your daughter and the school, academics aside, I think she would not have found the "fit" to be right for a variety of other reasons. As to not having another friend in h.s. school going through the same experience, I watched my D have the same lament. She frequently expressed that her h.s. friends in the senior class just couldn't understand and had a whole different set of priorities and expectations about college. In fact, that's the way she felt about h.s. in general. It got to the point where by March my daughter was really just marking time other than rehearsing for the spring musical.</p>
<p>IBEElieveINU I am right there with you as far as tuition. After she got accepted to Uarts in December we canceled all but 2 other colleges because if the big fat financial aid package doesn't come through she can commute which saves her about $7,000. Obviously this is not ideal but ya do what ya gotta do!</p>
<p>Kimoki...Listen to this one...I don't know if it common practice, but the school my s auditioned for on sat told us the program contracts out it's voice lessons and dance classes so it is an extra 2600 a year plus transportation to the classes. I was like huh? What? And this school was a stretch for us financially anyway. Scratch this off the list. He auditioned anyway.</p>
<p>I know the numbers are crazy!! I just had a talk with my D this morning about applying to scholarships through her school and how important it was for her. I reminded her that MT is not like Accounting where ONCE you get a job it will be a steady paycheck. She is not going to want that student loan payment every month or at least not a big one. Being a realtor I see so many young people ruin their credit by having defaulted on student loans.</p>