<p>Re: the benefits of an arts high school in that more classmates are going through the same thing when it comes time to audition for college. That can be a blessing and a curse, judging by what my own kid is going through. Yes, it is nice that they are (to quote High School Musical) "all in this together." But it also means that there is (unspoken) competition and some tension among the kids, most of whom are applying to the same half dozen schools. It is nice that they give each other support and encouragement, but it can be very uncomfortable when, say, one kid gets admitted to a coveted program and a classmate who really wanted to go there did not. I would guess this is akin to what kids at all high schools experience, whether they are applying to Ivy League schools for academics or conservatories/college programs for a BFA. Overall, the kids are very supportive of each other, and especially of my D, who is the only one doing musical theater for college. (Her high school is an actor training program that does NOT include musical theater except one unit junior year and NO musicals being staged.) So even in her arts hs where the other 14 kids also are actors, she is a bit of the odd girl out in terms of what she is pursuing in college. :)</p>
<p>This is a really fascinating thread. I am going to comment in several areas. First the facts, both my daughter and son both attended/attend a charter Performing Arts school. The benefits I see are a focus on their art (one voice and one theater). Did it help my D in auditions? Maybe. She had had a private voice teacher for several years as well as her voice instructors for school. SHe was also able to use the theater department for some guidance in locating audition material. The school is only 5 years old and she was the FIRST to pursue MT so guidance was relatively clueless - we forged several new paths. We felt lucky she was able to attend the school(she transferred after a year at another school) and she has used her training to help her in college so far in many arts areas. But she is one of only a handful of kids in her college program who went to PA high schools.</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that her summer program(she did the CAP21 program) helped her more than anything else. It helped us understand what the competition was like. So many MT kids were the leads and stars...and there are a lot more HS's than college MT programs. I urged her to use it as a reality check - is this what she wanted to do? Were these the people she wanted to be with and be like? ANd how did her talent stack up against a lot of other talented kids? A friend of hers did the program last year and came home knowing that it really wasnt IT for her. Although it was expensive, I figured it was cheaper than a semester or years tuition to figure that lesson out.</p>
<p>Good luck to all still waiting!
MikksMom</p>
<p>Just another thought...when children go to PA high schools they are often the small fish in a big pond and get less quality stage time for performing experience. I know of several very talented kids at high schools, both public and private, which have marginal performing arts departments and their children get amazing experience with leading roles and opportunities for those limited spots at Thespians and Cappies. If you seek out good training and use the summers for additional training every child should have a chance to excel. I am sure the audition process is not swayed by the school name on your transcript but simply your ability to inspire and impress the panel. Also, keep in mind that most of the PA kids are very bright and have a full course load of challenging academics. Many of the top MT programs require a strong academic background as well to be considered in to their program. I know of a few very talented kids who might have had a chance getting in to FSU's MT program but didn't have the GPA and SAT's to be eligible.</p>
<p>I don't really have anything in response to what has already been said, but I'll blather on a little since I'm an arts h/s alum ...</p>
<p>The school I attended was residential and offered pre-professional training in creative writing, dance, drama, music, and visual art to a student population of around 200. Admission was by audition or interview into one arts area for junior year with the exception of dancers and exceptional musicians who could start as early as ninth grade. Changes in the arts areas were very rare and there was little intermingling between the departments except that drama students were allowed to supplement their training with some extra singing and dance lessons on their own time. The voice students were also taught some very elementary acting. </p>
<p>While some rich kids who had come from private day schools complained about the quality of the academic instruction - especially in math and science, I found it to be much, much better than what I had previously experienced at the regular public schools I had attended. The school has actually enjoyed a top 150 ranking in one of the national ratings publications at least once. A full compliment of APs were offered and advanced students were sometimes allowed to take community college distance learning classes if something they needed/desired was not offered or available in the schedule. I had all As during my time there and was both a National Merit Finalist and an AP Scholar with Distinction. I started college with just short of second semester sophomore credit, but only finished third in my h/s class! Off the top of my head, some people who graduated from my class and the classes before and behind me who decided to pursue BAs or other academic paths outside their arts areas now attend Harvard, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Swarthmore, Northwestern, Duke, Vassar, and Bard. Other academic achievers took large scholarships to less prestigious schools.</p>
<p>I found the arts instruction in my area to be fantastic. The teachers were professional actors and, more importantly, had real teaching talent. They had also been teaching kids long enough to have honed their methods to the needs and abilities of talented sixteen year olds without really dumbing anything down. Another important factor was that they worked together to make sure what each taught fed off the other things we were learning so nothing contradicted like you might find if trying to piece together something from various locales. </p>
<p>First year, it was all about stripping away bad habits, freeing the voice and body, and acquiring a very basic acting technique so the public performance opportunities were limited. Juniors did a scene presentation at the end of the year plus some occasional things like an MT review done by members of both classes with a visiting instructor. Seniors got into more advanced training that, combined with what was learned junior year, roughly equated to the first year at a conservatory. Plus, seniors staged two full-length plays with alternating leads along with numerous scene and monologue presentations. This may not sound like much performance-wise, but considering that we pretty much performed all the time in class as part of the training, we more than had our hands full. It was actually quite intense at times and a great favor was done to some students who either couldn't keep up or weren't truly dedicated in that it made them realize that this very difficult path wasn't for them. Each class started with around twenty students and the numbers graduating in the three classes with which I'm very familiar were eleven, thirteen, and fourteen. I don't know the actual number, but I understand last year's class to have finished with less than ten. I have no idea how many are left this year. There are also always a few in each class who stay but decide to major in something else in college. </p>
<p>Did this give the ones of us who survived the program still wanting to pursue acting an advantage at BFA auditions? You bet it did ... at least at the acting schools. My class combined with the ones before and after have a presence at Juilliard, CMU, NCSA, Purchase, UM Guthrie, CalArts, Rutgers, NYU, SMU, Otterbein, Emerson, and RSAMD. Most had multiple options, so that doesn't include the other schools to which various students were accepted but chose not to attend. Out of all those, however, I can only think of one who is pursuing a BFA in MT although there were two in my class who were accepted into some MT programs but opted for acting instead. I think there was also one from the class before me who left at midterm senior year who is pursuing MT at Syracuse, but I'm not sure about that. Then, sadly, there always seem to be one or two who get in good schools, but can't afford to attend.</p>
<p>I have some errands to run, but I might come back and reveal some of the dark side of all of this later.</p>
<p>fishbowl, your school sounds much like my D's, especially the focus on training and the fact that you had teachers who were working professionals who knew how to work with kids. One thing that I really love about my daughter's school is the sense of real respect between the teachers and the students. And each class (freshmen, sophomore, etc.) works together as an ensemble, so they get to know each other artistically and socially very, very well. (By senior year, they resemble a dysfunctional, if very loving, family!) My D also feels being at an arts hs was an advantage because it got her accustomed to what juries are and how to handle them; a student at her school cannot pass to the next grade unless he or she passes his or her juries.</p>
<p>^ We didn't have juries per se. They were "evaluations" much like what I go through now. It was like you go into this room and sit at the end of a long table with the drama faculty at the other end who pretty much take turns laying everything you'd done during the previous grading period on the line with no. punches. pulled. Of course, there was praise given where it had been earned, but it was always punctuated with where you needed to go from there. There was always a lot of feedback in class so you pretty much knew what to expect after awhile, but it was really scary the first couple of times.</p>
<p>As far as respect ... hehehe ... It was all about "Master and Apprentice" and was pretty much a one way street at first. Their method of dealing with sixteen year olds was to be very stern although they seemed to have a good instinct for when to let up. It was sort of boot campish, really. Whatever respect you got, you earned, and you really didn't have the opportunity to earn much until senior year as the relationship gradually became more cordial. On the other side of the coin, we students practically worshipped them right from the beginning. I'm 21 and I still wouldn't dare call one of those men by his first name! </p>
<p>
[quote]
And each class (freshmen, sophomore, etc.) works together as an ensemble, so they get to know each other artistically and socially very, very well. (By senior year, they resemble a dysfunctional, if very loving, family!)
[/quote]
I worked with a girl from my h/s class last summer. We really hadn't seen each other at all since graduation other than through Facebook and the occasional drunk dial, but it was amazing how we could still complete each other's sentences ... I dunno ... There's just something about coming together in that kind of intense environment at that age. It's not really even like family. Maybe closer. Some say it's cult-like, but that's not really it, either. I think I said on here a couple of years ago how I would throw myself in front of a bus for any one of those crazy kids and that hasn't changed to this day. It's actually been somewhat of a problem for some who've come through the drama program at that school - including me-, because we've become so tight with each other that it can be really difficult to start over and bond with a new ensemble. There can be a real tendency to want to reject your new classmates which I guess is really the crux of the dark side I alluded to earlier. When you hear arts h/s kids say they get bored or whatever with the training at their college programs, I don't think it's because they're bored at all. It's more a sense of loss and mourning for an incredible collective relationship that can never, ever, ever be replaced because you'll never be that age and in that place again. Now I'm about to cry thinking about it so I'd better stop. "Oh to live on ... Sugar Mountain ..."</p>
<p>fishbowl, I think you have described that special relationship between ensemble members really, really well. I am going to share what you wrote with my D, who will likely shake her head in recognition.
Re: teacher-student relationships. At my kid's school, all the students call the teachers by their first names. The idea is (and it works, as corny as it sounds) that the students are treated as professionals (or on their way to being professionals) by the teachers, who are professionals. It seemed weird to me at first to hear my 16 year old say "Donald is working with me on this problem I have of not knowing what to do with my hands on stage." (Interestingly enough, the kids call their academic teachers by Mr., Miss, or Ms. and not by their first name. But that is a totally different relationship and much more traditional.)
People often ask me if I would recommend their kid attend this particular arts school and I always respond the same way: It's not for the well rounded kid who wants a typical American high school experience. It's for the <em>angular</em> kid who is ultra-focused on his or her art area (they have actor training, theater design and tech, visual art, instrumental and vocal music and dance) and who thus won't miss being on the yearbook committee, or taking part in student government, or, for that matter, going to football games. (The school has no sports teams at all. In fact, my daughter has not taken phys ed since she got there, as actors do movement classes.) My D loves her school and is already feeling sad that she is coming to the end of her time there. I am going to miss the whole creative ambiance. Luckily, I have a younger one who is very intense about ballet, so maybe in a year or two ... :)</p>
<p>^ Wow. Mine was residential, so a student government and an advisory council with the administration's ear were a necessity. As I'm sure you know from being a writer, creative inspiration does not come on the kind of tidy schedule those with a bureaucratic mindset would like to impose and, given the rebellious nature of kids that age, there was always a good deal of tension between the student body and the administration. Obviously, you can't have kids running amok. Sometimes, however, new rules would be imposed that seemed to defy common sense and even interfered with students' abilities to effectively complete their academic or arts work, so we had to have an organized voice to try to at least bring some balance to the situation.</p>
<p>We didn't have sports teams per se, but there were clubs of various kinds. I always wished we had a full-blown track team because the girls would've totally kicked ass. Some of those little dancer chicks could fly! LOL</p>
<p>As for what I said above about the dark side of things ... My experience is that the good far outweighs the bad and I wouldn't trade my experience at that place for anything. If you or your kid has the opportunity to go to such a school, I couldn't recommend it more.</p>
<p>My daughter went to a arts school and I think it helped her get in her dream school but we had a lot of problems. Academically it was not as good as the public school she transferred from and academics were very important to her father and I. Also the college counsler did not reall have the knowledge of all the schools that were out there for MT and acting. I had to do my own research and then she used my daughters list for many of the other students which would of hurt my daughters chances. The acting teacher wanted her to do a monologue she was not comfortable with and he made her life miserable when she choose not to use it. The MT teacher who was quite old was upset that she had 11 schools she was applying to and insisted she only apply to 6. I had her apply to 11 because I knew the odds were tough. I felt that the school did not have as much knowledge when it came to applying to colleges as they should. This could of really hurt her, if it wasn't for the research I did on my own. Not all arts schools are great!</p>
<p>My son attended an academically rigorous private high school and did not do theatre in school much past middle school. Except for choir, his training was mainly outside of school, and he had success getting into quite a few audition-based college MT programs.</p>
<p>This conversation has been quite interesting. When my S was in 8th grade, we were faced with the decision of having him attend our local performing arts hs or the traditional independent hs associated with the school he'd attended since K. He was accepted into both programs. I contacted somewhere around 12 college programs, some offering a BFA, some offering a BA with theater emphasis, to ask about how these two different approaches to hs education would "pan out" when it came time to apply to/audition for college. AT THAT TIME, the majority of programs said that while either approach would work (don't forget academics AND don't forget to perform no matter what), the preference was to have more well-rounded kids who had NOT been previously trained. The message: TALENT WILL SHOW THROUGH, even without training. . .and TRAINING CAN INTERFERE with the evidence of talent. </p>
<p>Anyway, I'm not sure WHAT I think about that advice now.</p>
<p>Well, the main thing is basically what they said.....get an academic education but also continue to take voice, acting, dance (depending if MT or drama) and be involved in production work. The kids who attend PA schools get all that at school pretty much and the kids who attend regular high schools must supplement their HS experience outside the school day, travel, etc. There are pros and cons of both situations. I think kids from both situations fare well in the college admissions process. When my D was an applicant, yes, I thought about how she was up against all these PA kids, but she still did fine coming from a rural public school (with no drama classes). When she got an NFAA award and I read down the list of those who won one in her field, it was definitely full of lots from PA high schools, but still there were a good amount from regular high schools I have never heard of. There were no other winners from our state in any category and I would not have even have known of NFAA had I not read CC and it was clear to me with the multiple winners from single PA schools that they were very aware of things like NFAA as well as have deep talent pools.</p>
<p>Great thread! Not much to say that hasn't already been said. I have seen where the selection of audition material has taken a very talented kid and made them look ordinary or unimpressive. Monologue(s) and Song(s) that can demonstrate your acting ability and your vocal range are critical. My Ds HS has classes on "how to audition" that itself is an area of training that can't be overemphasized.</p>
<p>That -- teaching kids to audition and helping them select material -- is one area that I believe my D's arts hs could have done better. It's so training oriented that the emphasis was on just that -- training -- and not on how to present oneself in an audition setting. The kids also were responsible for finding their own monologues: teachers did not routinely suggest monologues for individual students. I agree with what MTDad777 said above: the material is very important, as the kid only has a few moments to showcase his or her talent.</p>
<p>My performing arts school is brand new (this is its first year open) so it's still developing its curiculum. But that is the thing that was over looked, auditioning. I wasn't as confident with my auditions as I felt I should have been. I did my best but I don't believe that my material showcased me to my best potential in a 3 minute span.</p>
<p>I went to THE performing arts HS (for Vocal Music), and I don't feel I had any advantage over the other auditioners. In fact, it was somewhat of a disadvantage, since I spent the majority of my time singing, and was not able to take drama or dance classes, and didn't have time to be in any musical productions outside of school.</p>
<p>How long were your school days, and what state are you located in?</p>
<p>bwaylvsong - Surely your vocal music training in your PA high school should have given you at least SOME advantage over other auditioners whose voice training was likely to be much more limited? Those who don't attend a PA school have to find time to take voice classes along with acting and dance classes outside of the regular school day. In most regular high schools, rehearsals for choir and shows probably take place either in the early morning or after regular classes have ended in the afternoon, or on weekends. It just seems to me that the kinds of in-depth, thorough and extensive training that a PA school should be able to provide, even if limited to just one aspect of performance such as singing, acting or dance, is going to be difficult to duplicate by taking extra training a few hours a week, as many kids are limited to doing.</p>
<p>My school days were technically from 8 AM to 3:30 PM (ten periods), but sometimes I had zero period at 7:30 and rehearsal till any time, usually around 6. And I had a total of three hours of travel a day to get to and from school. It was LaGuardia HS (the "Fame" School) in NYC. Yes, my vocal training gave me an advantage in singing, but the lack of dance or acting training balanced that out. I do agree that the voice training I received would be nearly impossible to duplicate in a non-PA HS setting, but most students tend to benefit more from private lessons, of which there were none.</p>
<p>I feel like my PA highschool prepared my peers and I extremely well. We had private 30-minute audition technique session once a week since the first week of school. Those were to work mainly on monologues, but you could also bring in songs. Musical theatre kids were expected to have 3-6 monologues, and straight acting kids were expected to have 6-12.
There were musical theatre dance(including tap), ballet, jazz, and modern classes available to us. We also have a song for musical theatre, acting for musical theatre, and song and dance lab. Then you could also choose to pay extra for private voice lessons with the musical theatre teacher (part of the theatre faculty) or with the voice teachers (part of the music faculty).
We also had acting technique classes, voice and diction, oral interpretation, acting for the camera, and stage movement classes every day. My school day is typically 8-5:30, with an hour for lunch, and some people have 1 free period.
The one complaint I had though was that the theatre faculty was thoroughly knowledgable about acting programs, but only really knew about the big name musical theatre schools since most the graduates were all getting into them. Although, since it's been becoming so much harder to get into musical theatre schools they have been trying to expand their knowledge by visting some lesser known schools and getting into contact with the heads of the programs.
At my auditions this year the main difference I noticed was just an overall confidence and ease that most of the kids lacked, and not all but most students from my school felt prepared enough to have this confidence. We also went in sort of knowing what would be happening at each audition, and we had our teachers with us at Unifieds. At a lot of my auditions the auditors asked about my school and told me to say "hi" to my teachers for them. I guess there's a comfort in knowing that the schools I applied to already had a relationship with my school, the teachers, and kids at their schools that graduated from mine.
In the long run though, I think anyone's talent can shine through.</p>