Perhaps, It wasn't them- it was YOU!

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

This is the second season that my dear son went through the audition process and after reading many of these posts, I thought I would share my observations.

Let’s begin in high school… Like many of you, my son was a big fish in small pond. He loved being in plays and everyone told him he was good at it; so, for arguments sake, let’s say he was. He didn’t have a voice or acting coach, he just got on stage and did his thing.

He didn’t go straight to college after high school, he worked and kept saying he wanted to be an actor but didn’t really do much to get to where he believed he should be. I’d ask him what did he know about the history of his craft and he couldn’t tell me. I was dismayed and a bit disappointed but I realized that he was just young and stupid but had to do this on his own. He had to go to community college and participate in community theater and not be the star. I realized that he had to want this more than anything and I couldn’t make it happen for him.

Fortunately, that first year he was accepted to a few schools, but not the school of his choice. So, he went to transferred to another school and he went back to auditions the next year.

I asked him to describe his observations… They were keen, he was able to tell me every detail of each audition; so much so, that I honestly stopped listening. He started talking about the kids who were there with their parents. Their parents were with them every single step of the way. Although they didn’t go into the auditions, they spent their time listening at the door and then grilled their kids when they returned. When the schools came out to excuse the group; they were bombarded by questions- not from the applicants but from the parents. What a shame.

I wonder how your kids would have faired better if you just let them handle their own auditions? Unless you parents are in the business, you have no ability to coach your kids. I know we all love our children, but at sometime we have to let them grow up. Sometimes, we have to let our kids fail, so they can get up, scrape off and try, try again. We know that kids act differently when we aren’t around. Perhaps that persona is the exact one that acting teacher was searching for–and you ruined it. They build character and confidence each time they accomplish something without you parents hovering over them.

How hard would it have been to take your kid to NYC or Chicago and you stay in the hotel? Mine is a bit older but I was nervous about him taking the train to NYC and navigating around without me. My husband reminded me that if he was unable to make it around, then perhaps, he wasn’t ready to leave home. He did just fine navigating without me. He went to his auditions and came home.

I hope that you parents start letting you kids grow up! If they got into their programs, great! If they didn’t, great! But be honest with them and let them know that they can and will achieve their dreams. Albeit on their own. You can’t buy their dreams for them. You’ve had the opportunity to grow up, let them.

2

I’m not sure what the intent was of this thread, but I think there is a wide variety of parents who participate on this forum. Some may be like me, a sad excuse for a theatre mom. I’ve never watched Glee, Smash, The Voice, American Idol, and haven’t watched the Oscars since I wore braces :slight_smile: I do believe that many on CC are hoping to support their children’s college search/application process, and that is represented on this forum. Son’s desire to be an actor still befuddles me, but it is his desire to pursue.

3

I agree with @entertainersmom in that I’m not sure the purpose of your post…but each child finds their own way and no one path is correct. Your son was not ready or driven to pursue this process straight out of high school. Great that he knew his limitations and was able to find what worked best for him. Many kids take a gap year, train, study, and prepare for this very difficult journey. For many kids the laissez-faire approach is what they want, others have enjoyed spending this time with their parents as they traveled, auditioned, and visited the many schools on their lists. I never listened at the door of my child’s audition, but we did have wonderful conversations about her experiences and I wouldn’t have traded that for the world. She asked my opinion on what to wear and how to do her hair, she cried on my shoulder when the rejections came in and we laughed at the bumbling mistakes she made along the way. Each family handles this process in a unique way. To blame the parents for a kid not getting into a school may not be what you meant…I hope you are trying to encourage kids to be independent and self sufficient. I don’t think those things are mutually exclusive with a continued desire to help guide these kids through this very daunting process.

4

I also am not sure what the purpose is of this post. I personally found it a bit attacking, but that may be an interpretation error on my part. I think a lot of us are just trying to do our best to help our kids land where they think they need to land to succeed. It is hard being a parent of a theater kid. Their world is tough and unforgiving, and it is hard to watch that happen. But it happens.

5

As Bissou so accurately points out- there are many paths to follow- how about I don’t judge yours, and you don’t judge mine? But here are a couple of points.

I took my child to her auditions and managed not to listen at the door. I did make all travel arrangements, the actual audition appointments (mostly online) consulted (endlessly!) and watched her stuff when she went into the room- so all she had to worry about was giving the panel her best. I also did ask questions at question and answer sessions. All of them had been approved by the kid beforehand - but I figured if I was going to make the 2nd biggest capital investment of my entire life- I deserved to understand what I was paying for. My questions were generally logistical- program questions came from the kid during her audition process. By the way- if you think asking questions during an info session is a shame, you have probably not been the presenter and faced a room of crickets. I have. At some schools I started the questions to break the ice. I had more than one college person thank me for it.

I was with my kid every step of the way in the college process, every application, every essay, every audition, every notification. And then when it was all finished, I sent her off to the biggest city in the US to make her own way- and she has been great at it. My “help” didn’t slow her down- it gave her a foundation from which she could soar.

6

@Sunflower99 - welcome to the forum! I know it is hard to join in at first, but please, don’t be shy . . .

7

I showed this thread to my husband. He wonders if perhaps Sunflower99 is feeling badly that her son has not yet been accepted to a program of his choice. Perhaps there might be some second thoughts or feelings of guilt here for not being more present for the process? And now, Sunflower is attacking those of us who made different choices that seem to have helped our kids achieve more success? The post just seems harsh and kind of out-of-the-blue.

8

^^I had similar thoughts as YardleySisa’s husband. What kinda struck me was how this is Sunflower99’s first post, yet she knows so much about the activities of all of the parents here on the T/D forum.

9

This has happened before where someone becomes a member long enough to post a controversial post, then leaves…probably best not to feed into this post…

10

Okay, my son felt the need to share these responses. So, the point of the first post was to say that it makes no sense to me how so many parents coddle and hand hold their children. I have 7 kids and was fortunate to be a stay-at-home mom. I’ve just noticed over the past 24 years how parents of can’t help but do everything for their children.

Don’t get me wrong, I was like that for my first two kids but after that, my husband reminded me that it was time to get my son off of my tits and let him grow up.

Seriously, I didn’t have my parents complete my college application or college essay. How many of you parents actually did more work on your children’s applications than you did your own? How many of you spent way too much time in the counselor’s office changing their schedules instead of letting them do it themselves? I am a reformed helicopter parent and do your kids a favor by letting them handle their own problems. Liken it to Wicked… if Elphiba would have let the lion handle his own stuff he wouldn’t be the cowardly lion…

Articles have been written about the loving parent that thinks they should do everything for their kids. Poor college admissions officers… do you know how many parents bug the heck of those poor people? Do you know how many college professors have parents calling them about the poor grades their “adult” children are getting?

So, I didn’t figure I needed to brag about my son to obtain validation in this environment. If you want than I will… Last year he was accepted to The New School, VCU, wait listed for CMU and something else. He ended up going to one of the schools listed above and realized it wasn’t where he was meant to be. We supported his decision because it was right for him. And I would be selfish if I didn’t want him to come home because I needed a help with his sisters. Girls… 13, 14, 16… if you have girls…not much more to say.

This time around he only auditioned for 2 schools UNSCA and DePaul… While at the auditions he got pulled out of the DePaul line by a Rutgers to audition… a cold audition… So, he waited like your kids to figure out his path. He got into one of them but couldn’t believe it until he got the actual admissions package. He got rejected (and that’s what its called a rejection) from one of the above schools and wait listed on another. Not bad for a kid who was a cocky high school senior and thought he knew how the real world worked.

He was the first one of my boys that I let go of. He was lucky to be 3rd. His other brothers had the benefit of me smothering them and their just finally doing it without me. I’m in a pretty good place… I’m in that beloved 1% but being that blessed doesn’t mean a darn thing to that college professor or admissions office who is just looking for the best fit for their program. Your children are probably fine… they just need to find their place in a program.

So, if you guys are upset because you didn’t know the point of my post… I hope this explains it a bit more.

If you aren’t a hovering parent, that is trying to micro manage their kids’ future, explain to me how in the world you 8 parents have over 7,000 posts in a forum that is mostly for children?

11

And lastly, I would NEVER attack anyone’s child. I just thought that since we are adults, we could have an actual adult conversation. If I didn’t love kids, I wouldn’t have so many. This was adult-to-adult… parent-to-parent. I am not the person who believes that everyone deserves a soccer trophy. They need to learn and it is our job to teach them and give them the confidence to get back up and try again. If that hurts the any of you adults I’m very sorry. That wasn’t the point… Like I said, not everyone is going to get a trophy just for showing up.

12

There’s a big difference between a conversation and a diatribe. As a parent who’s learned a lot about the theater school application process from this forum, I can assure you that I didn’t fill out any of my kids’ application materials (including my two non-theater applicants), nor did anyone else I know. I’m grateful for what I learned and committed to helping other families by sharing the information.

And despite the popular outcry against helicopter parenting (jargon, shudder), there’s greater, more valid concern about the large numbers of kids in our country who have no support or help from their parents, for a variety of reasons. Here’s an excellent article about current research on that topic: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/06/the-terrible-loneliness-of-growing-up-poor-in-robert-putnams-america/.

We can all help each other’s kids–and those who don’t have help at home–if we put our minds to it, but posting vague, unjustified accusations doesn’t help anybody and doesn’t qualify as starting a conversation. Here’s hoping we can keep this forum a place for seeking and sharing information and for generating positive change.

13

My kids aren’t actors, so I don’t know much about that. I do know the people on CC who have a large number of posts probably got most of them by answering questions for other people’s children. I think it’s amazing that they would dedicate so much time to helping people they don’t even know.

14

To echo others- what is your point in telling us this? To chide us for things we have already done? Sorry, water under the bridge. In my case, my kid is an only child, so no opportunities to do something different on another round. Guess she will just have to live with the consequences.

And for the record - I have 1000 posts b/c I am trying to pay forward help that was given to my family when we were confused and needed help by answering questions for people (adults and kids) going through the BFA process. Last time I checked, that’s a good thing to do, and it takes a village to raise a child- but gee, maybe I got that part wrong too… Dang…

15

Hi Sunflower- Congratulations to your son. He must be very talented to get such great acceptances. I guess I’m still not sure of the point of your post. It’s wonderful that your son got where he is totally on his own although I would doubt if many parents here helped their kids fill out applications- I know we certainly didn’t. Anyway, each family has their own dynamics and should do whatever they have found works best for them. It shouldn’t really matter as long as it doesn’t impact anyone else. Good luck to your son (and to everyone out there) in this always challenging career path

16

I really do not think that I could ever qualify as a helicopter mom. My kids would absolutely agree and I feel very comfortable sending them off to college, one in a big city, one in a smaller town, both BFA student (and no, they did not get their love of theatre from me). However, either my husband or I, or both of us, were at their auditions, Unifieds and such. Not in the room, not asking questions, not filling out forms, but there at the end of the day. And it was some of our best times together. As you well know, our time to be needed full time is finite, and I would not change the way we handled this part of their college career in the slightest. I have two independent, self sufficient college students who navigate through their life with and without us. As for those who post on this site, the theatre process is so vastly different from other school applications, it is a benefit to have the experience of us “older” parents.

17

Look, with all due respect, you can’t come barreling into a space telling people that they are ruining their kids’ personas, coddling them, trying to buy the kids’ dreams for them, writing their essays and completing their apps for them, and not letting them grow up, and then be surprised at getting pushback from those you are accusing. That is hardly the approach I would use if I were trying to start an “adult conversation” with others.

I can’t think of a single person I’ve run across here or in the MT forum who would fit the description you’ve given, so this entire thread is puzzling. I wonder why it’s important to you to share your opinions about the type of parent you say you used to be and seem to think others are.

FWIW, my parenting would fall heavily on the “free range” end of the spectrum, pretty far from anything resembling helicoptering. My S and D (both teens) come to me or my husband when they feel out of their depth, which isn’t too often – and my D even tells me that she brings problems to me in part because she knows I’m NOT going to try to manage them for her. I’m amused by the idea that we would have written my son’s essays for him. Hah! His essays were nothing like the typical winning college essay and nothing like anything I’d ever write. They were probably average, maybe even a little boring, and I wouldn’t change that – because they were 100% his ideas and words. I don’t involve myself in his (or D’s) academic life, not that they would want me to. I am very involved in their theatre work through the school’s drama booster group, something my S specifically asked me to volunteer for.

When it came to college admissions and auditions, my S was determined to do it all his way, with little more than logistical support from us (in addition to the emotional support and love he always has). Turns out he got rejected from every audition program he applied to. So I guess that method turned out not to be any “better” for succeeding at this game than any other. Go figure.

Anyway, long story short, I think you are badly misjudging the other parents in this forum, which is a shame. I wish your S the best for a fantastic experience wherever he ended up. He should be very proud of his accomplishment, and I hope he has many more to celebrate in the years to come!

18

Bravo @CrashCourseMom!

19

It sounds like kind of a train wreck to me, a kid who was talented enough to be WL at CMU but is not currently in a program? I’m not sure that’s what most of us want for our kids. Also, not sure that everything everyone says on CC is 100% true.

20

Let’s be honest, we’ve all seen the parent that @Sunflower99‌ is describing at Unifieds but they are a very small minority. Most parents are either sitting in a corner reading, hanging out at Starbucks, people watching in the lobby or enjoying a drink(s) at the hotel bar.