<p>So i guess what the REAL question boils down to is this: At which type of schools are you most likely going to have a deficiency in any one of those aforementioned categories?</p>
<p>It seems as if the top 25 schools win when you think of a complete application package.</p>
<p>^of course my assumption is that people who want to be doctors ONLY choose schools where they will get that advantage. It’s a terrible assumption but I like discussing these things.</p>
<p>I think that’s a fair assessment. Top undergrads provide you with more opportunities to get published or to win national awards or to get into programs like Teach for America and to get better recommendation letters. I think most students would benefit from attending a top undergraduate in terms of maximizing their EC opportunities and the “other” category. I firmly believe that your undergrad has minimal influence on your MCAT score. So, the question boils down to GPA. Top undergrads have brighter students, smaller classes, and substantial grade inflation. Does that equate to a higher GPA, lower GPA, or the same? I think the answer is probably either “the same” or “a slightly lower GPA.”</p>
<p>
This reminds me that somebody-in-the-know said UG, in addition to GPA and MCAT, saves DS. If this is true, it is good for DS to go to his UG college. He also benefited by having good 4 years of life. (He was a high stats kid who was late into the premed game. — who would take MCAT after graduated from college?!)</p>
<p>About the resources provided by the college: I think DS had easy access to resources while in college. An example: When he decided to do research (after he voluntarily gave up his opportunity of a paid summer research job 3 years ago), it was relatively easy for him to get into a research group.</p>
<p>There are, of course, other important factors such as finances and how much you actually like the school. This is assuming those other factors are equal and only looking at things from a gamesmanship point-of-view or euphemistically from a “what-can-I-do-to-maximize-my-chances” point of view.</p>
<p>wait mcat2…what school are we talking about?</p>
<p>and wait norcalguy</p>
<p>I agree there are more opportunities…but remember that at a top 25 school, you are going to have motivated students just like yourself. Do you really think opportunities will come that easy when you have that much competition? I wouldn’t.</p>
<p>^ arguably top-5.</p>
<p>I think it depends on what kind of opportunity you are talking about. DS applied to likely about 5-6 research groups (in two times – end of junior and end of senior.) He got into 3. You would not call it “hard to find an opportunity”, would you? He is not a very pro-active type of student. (He really hates to blow his horn in his medical school application.)</p>
<p>How about a name? 
UpeNN?</p>
<p>Well…I think I would like to keep a little bit a secrecy here. DS may have hated me for being so open in the public forum already :-(</p>
<p>No offense to UPenn here, but this is a true story: 4 years ago, when DS was interviewed for college application, an interviewer asked him what other prestigious colleges he applied to. When DS mentioned UPenn, the interviewer said: “Is that an ivy?!” It was the most unpleasant interview he has ever had – including his medical school interviews!</p>
<p>^seriously? who cares? I mean it’s not like Im going to stalk him lol I mean its just the name of a university. W.e. Irrelevant to this post. Forget it.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t call it a “hard to find opportunity” more so than a “hard to get opportunity”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is a public forum, with google and a few other tools, it’s amazing how easy it can be to find someone’s identity. In the interest of being helpful, I have let loose a few facts about D1 over the years and a member here was able to identify her and myself as well. It didn’t happen to be a problem with that individual, but it could have been someone else that would have been.</p>
<p>Any efforts to protect a member’s privacy should be respected.</p>
<p>What? Okay the parent didn’t reveal anything except the fact that he did research at a couple places and went to a top 5. Telling me the name of that school wouldn’t have revealed any more. Maybe your case was different depending on how revealing those “few facts” were.</p>
<p>Anyways, back on topic! :)</p>
<p>I think you guys hit the nail on the head with the all-too-short discussion about the assumption that going to a “lesser” school means that it will be easier to keep a high GPA.</p>
<p>I’d like to think I’m a pretty bright kid. I went to one of the toughest high schools in my region (and my HS argues, in my state) and graduated with a 3.9. I take the hardest classes I can find at my university and have a 3.85. From a purely numbers perspective, it seems that I’m a good student. I’d like to think that I am.</p>
<p>I go to a big state public. It’s my state’s school. It’s nothing special–I have no idea if it’s ranked in anything, but last time I checked (4 years ago) it was hovering right around #105–but it’s given me everything I could have asked for and more.</p>
<p>I work my tail off! My classes are hard. I think some of my professors are brilliant. I’m constantly challenged, mostly because I want to and choose to be. The courses are interesting. The content is fascinating. I’m learning more than I ever have, and it’s a little bittersweet that I’m almost done being an undergrad.</p>
<p>So for these high school kids to believe that the ticket to a high GPA is to go to a state school and skate through classes is downright offensive to students like me. There is NOTHING easy about going to state schools, and you must seriously work to create and maintain a high GPA that’s a result of challenging coursework. Don’t be fooled into thinking that you’re going to have an easy time of it if you choose to go to a state school. In my experience, absolutely nothing could be further from the truth.</p>
<p>Curm also makes an excellent point that med schools are not stupid–and that they know what’s going on when you pad your GPA with easy classes. I interviewed at a top 20 med school recently, and the Dean of Admissions herself made a point to tell us how our applications were evaluated. When she got to the part about GPA, she told us that they take under consideration the rigor of the courseload taken, and that–and this is crucial, kiddos!–a B in a class that’s known to be challenging is worth much more than an A in it’s easier counterpart–at least in their admissions evaluations. What if they can’t tell? They call your school and ask. You didn’t take the toughest classes you could? See ya later, no interview.</p>
<p>The point is, you have to make the best out of what you have. “Destined” for a state school when you wish you could go to your dream? Tough luck, happens to the best of them, and it happens every single day in every single state and likely in every single high school. Happened to me, and once I got used to the idea of choosing my school, I couldn’t be happier–and actually, it’s hard for me to imagine why I wanted to go anywhere else in the first place. You’re not destined to be a lackluster applicant for going to a state school in much the same way you’re not owed an acceptance for going to a prestigious one. What matters is what you make of it. </p>
<p>The joy is in the journey, that’s for sure.</p>
<p>kristin, bless your honest little heart. You did it right and it obviously has worked the way it was supposed to. </p>
<p>This post should be stickied and hung up for everyone to read, digest, and figure out why it’s the right way. </p>
<p>I would say good luck, but I suspect that;s not likely to be necessary since I think you’ve already figured it out. This isn’t a game and the rules
aren’t that hard to figure out. Learning is for the sake of learning and you will always get out of it what you put into it. The grades take care of themselves.</p>
<p>People keep seeming to confuse one single argument with two separate arguments.</p>
<p>I often tell kids that major doesn’t matter. Why? Look at the admissions rates for each major – they’re very, very, very similar.</p>
<p>It would be incorrect to say: “Well, if major doesn’t matter, then let’s just pick the one that gives out higher grades!”</p>
<p>Why is that wrong? Because major doesn’t matter after factoring in the grading difference.</p>
<p>You see a similar phenomenon when picking colleges. We try to tell kids that undergrad doesn’t play a huge role, so they immediately jump to the idea that they should pick undergrads where it’s easy to get high grades. This is wrong. College doesn’t play a huge role after you consider the fact that some places give out higher grades than others.</p>
<p>For example, consider that Penn’s average GPA among eventual medical students is actually below 3.4. That’s a startling contrast below the national average of 3.67. Is it harder to get good grades at Penn than at, say, Jackson State? Of course it is. But medical schools make some adjustment for that, so you don’t have to worry too much about it.</p>
<hr>
<p>As a side issue:
</p>
<p>I think you’d be surprised. I had bunches of college classmates who did this easily, and several more who could have done it easily.* And we already had a relative concentration of talent compared to, say, a big public.</p>
<p>(*I had a friend who got one A and the rest A+'s while founding an international nonprofit, playing volleyball, being generally awesome, and triple majoring in Electrical Engineering, Physics, and Economics. He actually worked pretty hard, but if he had picked a single major he wouldn’t have had to.)</p>
<p>* I’m amazed people continually think that medical schools don’t care about the quality of your undergrad. *</p>
<p>I think it depends.</p>
<p>There has been talk that no one should go to a low-tier directional public or an unknown low-tier private - unless that school has very strong math/science depts. </p>
<p>There is a state school by our home that is not highly ranked overall. However, its pre-med students have a good rate of acceptance because the school is strong in the math and sciences (and engineering). However, since it offers a limited number of majors overall, and doesn’t have a lot of depth in some of those majors, it can’t have a very good ranking. But, the school does a good job turning out engineers, nurses, business majors, and pre-med students. However, you’re not going to find Russian Studies or some of the other more specialized humanities there.</p>
<p>My kids didn’t want to go there because it’s “too close” and they wanted the full college experience of a flagship school. But, if that were the only affordable option, they could have gone there and have gotten a good education in math, sciences, and engineering.</p>
<p>That said, there is another state school by me that I would never recommend that a pre-med student attend. It is not strong in sciences and math. It’s largely a “teachers college.”</p>
<p>I think what people mean when they say that it doesn’t matter is that a student can go to their state flagship or a mid-tier private that has good science/math depts. I think what people are countering is the belief that you HAVE to go to an elite school if you want to go to med school.</p>
<p>I’m from California. I went to college in the 70s. Back then, if you wanted to go to med school, then you better never go to a Cal State (even a good one) or a lower tier UC. The wisdom at the time was that you better go to UCB, UCLA, UCI and maybe UCSD if you wanted to go to med school after attending a public undergrad. I think some of that “old school” idea still permeates some people’s thinking today.</p>
<p>One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned is that a lot of top private schools have incredible grade inflation. Grading can actually be harsher at state schools. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Unless that LAC is known for harsh grading (Reed College), I’d be really surprised if this were true.</p>