Perspective on GPA gamesmanship

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>I don't have time right now to fully cover this but I want to get this out there. </p>

<p>I don't want anybody to think there exists a consensus on this board that taking "easy" courses at a less than "Top" school so as to achieve the highest GPA is a very good plan for med school admissions. Because IMO, it is a sorry idea. </p>

<p>GPA is an important admissions consideration but it is not considered in a vacuum. A 4.0 by taking easy courses or attending a less than demanding school is just not the best way to do this IMO. Your grades are not viewed in a vacuum. Your application should be considered by you in its entirety, as it most certainly will be viewed that way by the med schools. Pulling one factor out and gaming the system, well....it's just not gonna get it done. Give them a little credit. The med schools are smarter than that.</p>

<p>If you are the kid who thinks "I'll go to Uppsala State 'cuz I can get a 4.0 in ______ taking crap classes without breaking a sweat"" or "I'll take all/mostly crap classes at a good school" : </p>

<p>1) you won't be the kid getting the "best student at our school/in our department rec's".
2) you won't be the kid getting the leadership/scholarship awards and recognition from your school or nationally
3) you won't be the kid getting the plum research positions, appointed Editor of the Research Journal, or being invited along at school expense on trips and conferences.
4) And, most assuredly, you won't be the kid learning all of what you could learn in college. </p>

<p>Here's my take on this :
Go to the best school you can afford, given the financial realities of your med school aspirations. Work very hard. Get involved in campus life. Have some fun along the way. There will be plenty of classes at most schools that you'll need to take but - goodness- take some classes simply because they are what you want to study. Just because they sound "cool" or "fun" or "exciting". Go abroad. Join a club team. Heck, date/become a zombie or zombie-ette or whatever harmless freak-show happens to be in vogue at your school and will tick off your parents. ;) </p>

<p>Take some classes way out of your comfort zone. Stretch yourself. Challenge yourself with a classes that are difficult because of their content, not because of their work-load. Take the hard but outstanding professors while avoiding the hard but inane or "random grading" ones. And dang well know the difference between those classes and those professors. </p>

<p>Jeebus, folks. It's college! It's not just a rung on some never-ending ladder. Yeah. I know. It is a rung on some never-ending ladder. But the point I'm trying my hardest to make is, it's not just a rung. It can be a rewarding and eye-opening and world-view changing and life-affirming and dogma-challenging experience. If you'll let it be, that is. </p>

<p>If not, well...you might well make it to med school anyway. But you'll be well on the way to a life of "preparing to be happy". Waiting for the next rung to climb. Never being satisfied to be where you are in the moment. Slowthehelldown. The destination is worthwhile, but you need to enjoy the journey, too. Strive for a balanced life. As always, JMO. </p>

<p>Now back to our regularly scheduled carping and moaning, plotting and scheming. I'm better at that part anyway. ;)</p>

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<p>Applause! Well said, curm!</p>

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<p>I had some success on this front this week. D1 was planning to take a Bio class, “Reaction to Injury” (sounds real catchy, not) but asked if I though it was OK for her to take an Art History class instead. The first week of the bio class was not as interesting as she’d thought it would be, but she was afraid that just having the minimum premed course work would hurt her for med school. It’s her final semester of sr year and she’s had little room or timing conflicts which have often prevented her from taking electives that sound interesting to her. I finally talked her into it by saying it wasn’t going to make any difference for Med school, and even if it does, she’ll never know :rolleyes:!</p>

<p>As someone who stumbled into most of the good and not-so-good decisions in my live by default or luck, all this planning and ‘covering all the bases’ is way beyond my comprehension.</p>

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I heard many harcore premeds like to take that class because of its relevance to medicine. In one semester, DS almost took it (he needs a lot of bio classes because he sorts of switched into that major late in college) but did not in the end. I can not remember any particular reason, but it likely has something do with the fact that he was more into ECs that semester/year (not because of being a premed. kind along the line of “I want to know more about my club members.” – I thought he might have a gf or something like that, but it turns out it was not. He did travel out of state many times in that year.) I vaguely remember that he said he would like to allocate a big chunk of free time for ECs that year.</p>

<p>He always took music classes for music major (rather than those for non-majors) even though he is not a music major. He said he would not have another chance to take this kind of class for a long time after college.</p>

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<p>I don’t think anyone has advocated going to a lesser school and taking an easy major.</p>

<p>I think what’s been suggested is that one does need to manage one’s GPA.</p>

<p>That can mean…</p>

<p>Balancing each semester with some hard and some easier courses. </p>

<p>Easing into freshman year… Many kids take too many hard courses their first semester and end up with really crappy GPAs.</p>

<p>Choosing a good school, working VERY hard, and getting a top GPA with a challending major…instead of attending a school that will surely have a very harsh curve because it is loaded with gunners (both kinds).</p>

<p>I mentioned my niece in another thread. She went to a top LAC with major debt. She ended up with a 3.5 GPA and a degree in Math with premed prereqs… If she had gone to Purdue or Indiana U (neither are crappy schools), she likely would have had a 3.8+ GPA and no debt.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately that is EXACTLY whats been said on this forum over and over again. The main reason EVERYONE says this is because:</p>

<ol>
<li>It doesn’t matter where you went to undergrad.</li>
<li>Gpa is one of the most important factors in med school admissions.</li>
</ol>

<p>Anyone who is told these two things automatically assumes that they are better off going to a lesser school/taking easier classes and getting a great gpa.</p>

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<p>^^^ I agree, a lot of pre-meds automatically assume that because they decided to go to a “lesser” school that their lives will be a lot easier. Sucks when they realize that they have to work hard no matter they go. </p>

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<p>^^^^ I don’t understand. If you are the top dog at a lesser school with a 4.0, isn’t it much easier to get all those awards/recognition?</p>

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<p>I just don’t believe that a person can get a 4.0 in a “real major” with all the premed prereqs without breaking a sweat anywhere…unless the school is clearly not teaching what it’s supposed to be teaching.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t recommend going to an unknown school ( a school with a name that med schools have never heard of). But, to choose a well known mid-tier (like Purdue in my niece’s case) over an elite school with a scary curve, is a good plan…not “gamesmanship”. </p>

<p>I think there’s a difference between GPA Gamesmanship and GPA Management.</p>

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<p>* I don’t understand. If you are the top dog at a lesser school with a 4.0, isn’t it much easier to get all those awards/recognition?
*</p>

<p>I think the term “much easier” is not true, unless the school is some low tier directional school.</p>

<p>To be “top dog” in a serious major at any good school requires hard work. </p>

<p>Remember, high stats kids are not equally distributed across all majors at mid-tiers. they are largely concentrated in about 4-6 majors…Eng’g, math, chem, bio, physics, etc. So, your classmates aren’t a bunch of lightweights.</p>

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<p>

This is a good point and I believe it. I heard BME at some top colleges (JHU, Duke, maybe Rice) are full of this kind of kids.</p>

<p>So, if 1) the major does not matter, and 2) a high percentage of academically ambicious/capable kids are largely concentrated in a few majors, a conclusion that is not hard to deducted from these two premises is: not to be in these “competitive” majors if your goal is to achieve a higher GPA with the least efforts.</p>

<p>urgh… premed gamemanship! An unpleasant aspect of a premed life if there is really some “benefit” if a premed (who intend to get into a medical school instead of a top one) plays this kind of game. I remember I read from some school newspaper that some students posted that they will keep a far, far distance from the science majors after they have completed their premed reqs classes. (Mind you, some of these students may be “mostly-A” students.)</p>

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<p>respect my dood</p>

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<p>I feel guilty…:)</p>

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<p>These are valid premises for the conclusion that people are better off going to a lesser school and getting a great GPA.</p>

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<p>Except #1 isn’t really true and the underlying assumption that you’ll get a better GPA at a lesser school isn’t necessarily true. Top schools tend to curve much more generously than state schools.</p>

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<p>^What is a top school? Top 50? top 20? top 10?</p>

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<p>It might matter but the effect is really negligible so you can just assume it doesn’t exist.</p>

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<p>Most med schools will distinguish the top 20-25 undergrads from other schools. Don’t expect a non-Georgia med school to know the difference between Georgia Tech and Georgia State. But, they will know the difference between Emory and Georgia State. And I would say the effect is more than just “negligible.” I’m amazed people continually think that medical schools don’t care about the quality of your undergrad.</p>

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<p>In what sense will medical schools “care about the quality of your undergrad” so as to make the “effect…more than just ‘negligible’”?</p>

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<p>If you are applying to top med schools and your application is less than perfect, it will come into play. Think of med school applications as having roughly 4 major categories: GPA, MCAT, EC’s, and other (essays, recs, interviews, etc.). And if you are a URM, race will be the fifth category. There are so few URMs, that race is not a factor for most applicants. If you are stellar in each category, you will have no problem getting into a top medical school, regardless of your undergrad. If you are only “average” in 1 or 2 of the categories (meaning your GPA is only 3.7 or your EC’s are good but not great or your MCAT is 33), that’s where the kids from top undergrads clean up. There are a lot of applicants who are noticeably deficient or weaker in one of these categories. Unfortunately, if you have a huge deficiency AND if you don’t come from a prestigious undergraduate (defined as the top 25 or so undergrads or the top 5-10 LAC’s), you are going to have substantially more difficulty getting into prestigious medical schools, especially the Northeast ones.</p>

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<p>MCAT 33 is not stellar from state schools?</p>

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<p>It is not stellar to a top med school who sees a ton of applicants from top undergrads who have 35+ scores.</p>