<p>if you go for a joint degree program with a pharmD and MBA, does that officially allow you to get into the pharmaceutical industry?</p>
<p>Either is fine. So is a PHD in chemistry or biology. It really depends on what role you want to play. There is room for all of these discipines.</p>
<p>However, there is a historical bias toward those having training in organic or medicinal chemistry affords you the most respect that does not accurately reflect the biggest challenges ahead in the industry.
In the long run, those who truly understand the underlying physiology will fair the best in my opinion.</p>
<p>If you truly have no preference but want the highest impact, I'd go with organic or medicinal chemistry. But do try to learn as much biology as you can...</p>
<p>My father is a Vice President of Quality Control at Pfizer. He started out in at Pharmacia as a chemist. He has a BS in Biochemistry from BU, and his MBA from BU. About a year ago he went to Temple to get a Masters in Regulatory Affairs. No PhD required, but im sure it helps.</p>
<p>If you tutor me, and if I score at least a 750 on the GMAT, I will give you $10,000. This is no joke.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Patricia Chen</p></li>
<li><p>(813) 484-1816</p></li>
<li><p>Email: <a href="mailto:magicauctions123@yahoo.com">magicauctions123@yahoo.com</a></p></li>
</ul>
<p>Greetings!!!</p>
<p>I need you to come tutor me for the GMAT (Graduate Management Admission Test). I am located in Tampa, Florida. My telephone number is: (813) 484-1816. Basically, what I need is a very good GMAT instructor who has taken the real test no more than a year ago with a score of 720 or above.</p>
<p>If this is you, then read on </p>
<p>I will pay you tutor me. This is how it works: You first tutor me for free until I take the real GMAT. If I score above a 650, you get $1,000 for all your trouble. But, if I score above a 700, you get $5,000. Finally, heres the best part: If I score above a 750, you get $10,000. I am talking about cash, pure cash, coming out of my pocket for you to tutor me.</p>
<p>If you are excited so far, then read on </p>
<p>I agree to pay you to come to Tampa, Florida. I agree to pay for the hotel and flight accommodations. I agree to pick you up in a limo, or my brand new 2005 Camry (your choice). You will then be escorted to your hotel room for preparation to tutor me the very next day. You will be served three meals a day. You will have breakfast, lunch, and dinner with me at really good fancy restaurants. No, I am not talking about McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, but ten times better than that. You will enjoy for the next few weeks the hotel stay, and the food that I pay. </p>
<p>What happens after you tutor me </p>
<p>When I see my unofficial score for the GMAT, I will then decide how much to pay you in cold cash. Then, you will be flying back home to tell all your friends about how much money you have made by tutoring me.</p>
<p>Have a nice weekend!</p>
<p>Thank you!!!</p>
<ul>
<li>Patricia Chen</li>
<li>(813) 484-1816</li>
<li>Email: <a href="mailto:magicauctions123@yahoo.com">magicauctions123@yahoo.com</a></li>
</ul>
<p>Email me if interested.</p>
<p>P.S. If instead of going through the trouble to tutor me, if you take the GMAT for me and score a 650, 700, or 750, I will pay four times the amount mentioned above. This means you will get $4,000 for scoring a 650, $20,000 for scoring a 700, and $40,000 for scoring a 750. This is a quick way to make money for your helpfulness!</p>
<p>Email me if interested in this instead.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>This is good info. Thanks guys</p>
<p>It really depends on which department you want to work for in a pharmaceutical company. They have research, development, manufacturing, etc. I think that a MSE Chemical Engineering is what you should shoot for after your PharmD. PharmD and MSE Chemical Engineering allows you to seek positions in research, development, and manufacturing. PharmD, by itself, is too clinical. In addition, a MSE Chemical Engineering degree is quite versatile. You may one day chose not to work for the pharmaceutical industry. In that case, this MSE Chemical Engineering degree will allow you to branch into other fields.</p>
<p>My opinion is that a PhD takes too long and you'd probably be better off spending the same if not less time obtaining two Master's degrees. It gives you a lot more flexibility.</p>
<p>In the end, you will need an MBA to top it off. Top MBA programs want candidates who have good potential to succeed in the corporate world. Having two or more engineering degrees increases your chance of success. For example, if you hit a road block in the pharmaceutical industry, the MSE ChemE will allow you to seek better opportunities elsewhere. It will give you alternatives if you think your hitting a road block. On the other hand, if someone only had a PharmD and hit a road block. Guess what, they are stuck.</p>
<p>I think having more degrees will help you and definitely not hurt you. However, do not substitute necessary work experience for an extra degree.</p>
<p>I like your idea. The pharmD itself is just too clinical.
"However, do not substitute necessary work experience for an extra degree."" - Very true indeed.
Right now I'm thinkin about the accelerated six year pharmD/MBA program at the University of the Pacific. One specialization I like is the infectious diseas pharmacist.
Would Chem. Engineering be able to teach me into doing research or desgining antibiotics?</p>
<p>ChemE might be a spin off of Pharmacology, which is the design of medicines. However, ChemE allows you to work in more fields than a Pharmacology degree.</p>
<p>If you go to salary.com and look in the pharmaceutical section, take note of the requirements for each position. If you had a PharmD and a MSE ChemE, you would be eligible for approximately 75% of those positions within a pharmaceutical industry. What does that tell you? You are in the BEST position to move up the ladder in this industry. You basically have fundamental knowledge of what EVERY single department does in the company. An MBA along with your MSE ChemE and PharmD will GUARANTEE you an executive position.</p>
<p>I will def. keep this in mind.
For admission to the MSE Chem E degree, do you think a BA is necessary considering the fact that the pharmD is a graduate level degree?</p>
<p>
[quote]
An MBA along with your MSE ChemE and PharmD will GUARANTEE you an executive position.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ha! Nothing guarantees you an executive position. I've known people with PhD's in the health sciences and MBA's who nonetheless still did not get a job offer as an executive in a pharmaceutical company. </p>
<p>
[quote]
If you had a PharmD and a MSE ChemE, you would be eligible for approximately 75% of those positions within a pharmaceutical industry.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have my doubts about this. I agree that such a combination would position you well for a variety of R&D and manufacturing jobs. However, the truth is, big Pharma is largely sales, marketing, finance, and business development oriented. A great part of the success of pharmaceutical companies is due to their armies of slick, fast-talking sales reps, combined with snazzy marketing and advertising budgets, and business strategists who figure out what other companies to acquire or partner with. Having a bunch of technical degrees does not automatically prepare you well for those types of jobs.</p>
<p><<would chem.="" engineering="" be="" able="" to="" teach="" me="" into="" doing="" research="" or="" desgining="" ...="">></would></p>
<p>Not really. You need a PHd in synthethic organic chemistry or Medicinal Chemistry. Chem E is mostly devoted to scale up. In R&D you are making milligram quantities with prteey much the same equipment you use in undergraduate chemistry lab. </p>
<p>Pharmacologists are interested in studying the physical and physiological effects of drugs that have already been shown active in the test tube. As mentioned above, the designers are the synthetic chemists.</p>
<p>Of ocurse nothing is gurantee. It depends on what you are capable of. I beleive what Polo is trying to say is that the degrees get you at the front of the door, whether you can open it and succeed inside is another story.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have my doubts about this. I agree that such a combination would position you well for a variety of R&D and manufacturing jobs. However, the truth is, big Pharma is largely sales, marketing, finance, and business development oriented. A great part of the success of pharmaceutical companies is due to their armies of slick, fast-talking ]sales reps, combined with snazzy marketing and advertising budgets, and business strategists who figure out what other companies to acquire or partner with. Having a bunch of technical degrees does not automatically prepare you well for those types of jobs.
[/quote]
No it does not automatically prepare you for those jobs. But let's make an analogy. Have you ever been to a car dealership? I'm sure you would tend to agree that most of them have sales reps who know absolutely nothing about the product they are selling. However, some of them have some nasty tricks up their sleeves.</p>
<p>If I were going to buy or sell my a product, I better be darn sure that I know everything there is to know about it. Additional degrees could certainly help in this regard.</p>
<p>At least the salesman is sure to be competent in what he/she is selling.</p>
<p>Hey, don't get me wrong, it's nice to know a lot about the product you are trying to sell.</p>
<p>However, at the end of the day, a good salesman can sell anything, even something of which he knows nothing about. Sales is a standalone skill. It's about building relationships, working leads, understanding customer psychology, and all that. Obviously it's best to have a guy who is both a great salesmen and who knows the product very well. However, if you had to choose to hire a guy with only 1 of those traits , I would hire the guy who is a great salesman but who doesn't know the product rather than the guy who knows the product well but is a poor salesman. There's a big difference between things that are nice to know and things that you need to know. It's nice for a salesman to know his product well. But a salesman needs to know how to close the deal.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, at the end of the day, a good salesman can sell anything, even something of which he knows nothing about. Sales is a standalone skill. It's about building relationships, working leads, understanding customer psychology, and all that. Obviously it's best to have a guy who is both a great salesmen and who knows the product very well. However, if you had to choose to hire a guy with only 1 of those traits , I would hire the guy who is a great salesman but who doesn't know the product rather than the guy who knows the product well but is a poor salesman. There's a big difference between things that are nice to know and things that you need to know. It's nice for a salesman to know his product well. But a salesman needs to know how to close the deal.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm sure the salesman that Lexus, Infiniti, and MB hire are pretty top notch. They must have tons of experience. Unfortunately, even with their great sale skills, they are unable to enter the pharmaceutical sales field. Why? Because most lack the necessary technical background? We're not talking about a car here, we're talking about LIVES.</p>
<p>My dad works as a database programmer for Merrill Lynch. He sees many IBM salesman come in and pitch their products and services to upper management at Merrill. There are hundreds of salesman who are out just looking for prospective clients. However, AT THE END OF THE DAY, it is the managing director with intimate knowledge of the product that the firm is trying to sell who comes to the table. He closes the deal, and he is 99.99% a former computer engineer/programmer. Not the other person who just graduated with a marketing degree.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm sure the salesman that Lexus, Infiniti, and MB hire are pretty top notch. They must have tons of experience. Unfortunately, even with their great sale skills, they are unable to enter the pharmaceutical sales field. Why? Because most lack the necessary technical background? We're not talking about a car here, we're talking about LIVES.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh really? So why is is that Pfizer emphasizesin its sales staff hiring former members of the military and former college athletes? What does being a soldier and a jock have to do with selling pills? </p>
<p>In fact, you can just go to any pharmaceutical company sales staff and you will be able to see who have degrees that have to do with pharmaceuticals (like biochem, chem, etc.) and who doesn't. While obviously some do, many do not. Why is that? Like you said, we're talking about lives here, right? </p>
<p>The truth is, pharmaceutical companies hire people with a wide diversity of academic backgrounds, and then train them on what they need to know. Sure, it's obviously better if you have an academic background in what you are selling. But the truth is, plenty of superstar salesmen don't.</p>
<p>Want some examples? Ok. You talk about IBM, so let's talk about IBM. Ross Perot (yes, THAT Ross Perot) made his bones as a legendary IBM salesman. Rumor has it that in one year, in the first few weeks of January, he managed to fulfill his sales quota for the entire year. This despite the fact that Perot does not have a background in computer engineering or programming. In fact, his background was military (graduated from the Naval Academy, was a Navy officer for 4 years). Or take John Chambers, currently CEO of Cisco. He started his career as a highly successful salesman at IBM, then jumped to a head sales position at Wang, then jumped to an executive sales position at Cisco, ultimately rising to CEO. What's his bachelor's degree in? Business. Heck, just dig around any tech company and look at the backgrounds of the VP's or Directors of sales, and notice how many of them do not have degrees that are related to what they are selling.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Want some examples? Ok. You talk about IBM, so let's talk about IBM. Ross Perot (yes, THAT Ross Perot) made his bones as a legendary IBM salesman. Rumor has it that in one year, in the first few weeks of January, he managed to fulfill his sales quota for the entire year. This despite the fact that Perot does not have a background in computer engineering or programming. In fact, his background was military (graduated from the Naval Academy, was a Navy officer for 4 years). Or take John Chambers, currently CEO of Cisco. He started his career as a highly successful salesman at IBM, then jumped to a head sales position at Wang, then jumped to an executive sales position at Cisco, ultimately rising to CEO. What's his bachelor's degree in? Business. Heck, just dig around any tech company and look at the backgrounds of the VP's or Directors of sales, and notice how many of them do not have degrees that are related to what they are selling.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Your argument is not representative of the entire population. Your arguments are based on INDIVIDUAL cases which are in NO way applicable to most people on this forum. I'm suggesting that more degrees makes someone more versatile and more likely to increase someone's chances at succeeding at one of those fields. Your saying that is not necessary because CERTAIN people beat the odds. You talk about these FEW individuals, yet fail to take into account all the factors. Have your researched their family? Life experience show that if they had a very affluent family, advanced degrees are not necessary because they will get handed a job. I don't think that's the case for most people on this forum. If it were, they wouldn't have to come here because daddy would have gotten them into an Ivy.</p>
<p>I personally don't have that luxury. I have to beat the competition based on merit and use statistics to see where I fall. I will compete with others who have family connections into the business. The only way that I can foresee beating them is if I am hands-down superior to them in every way. The first and foremost way to gain the opportunity is to enter the industry with at least a PharmD and get a MSE Chemical Engineering while working. Rule of thumb: two degrees that are relevant to your line of work will give you an edge.</p>
<p>Side note...some companies extremely big companies will recruit from top notch schools not for the purpose of using the recruits, but to make sure no one else uses the recruits. I want to be in that condition where the company cannot afford to lose you and therefore, you will have your way.</p>
<p>Look, polo, nobody is arguing that having more degrees in the subject area is helpful. </p>
<p>However my argument is ENTIRELY representative of the population. Go to any pharmaceutical company and you will note that the majority of the sales staff do not have backgrounds in biology or chemistry or the health sciences or what have you. I agree with you that a disproportionate number of them will have such background. But a majority? Hardly. </p>
<p>This phenonemon is demonstrated even more strongly in computer sales. There is simply no way that 99.9% of all successful sales managing directors of computer companies are former programmers or computer engineering. No way. Some are, sure. But most are not. </p>
<p>In fact, that's the whole reason why tech companies hire sales engineers, who are actual engineers who come along and accompany their sales reps to try to close deals. Why are these sales engineers even necessary if the reps themselves have the necessary technical backgrounds? </p>
<p>
[quote]
Have your researched their family? Life experience show that if they had a very affluent family, advanced degrees are not necessary because they will get handed a job. I don't think that's the case for most people on this forum. If it were, they wouldn't have to come here because daddy would have gotten them into an Ivy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Have you researched their families? John Chambers basically grew up in West Virginia poverty. Ross Perot grew up in Texas middle class. In fact, the world of sales is filled with plenty of people who pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps and managed to display a knack for selling despite having limited background in whatever it was that they were selling. </p>
<p>Personally, if I were you and I really wanted to be a pharmaceutical sales rep, I wouldn't spend all my time trying to get all these degrees. Instead, I think a more suitable use of your time would be to polish your sales skills. Go out and work selling something, anything, even if it's used cars. Salesmanship is a highly portable skill. Developing stud salesmanship skills is a more sure way to becoming a pharma rep than getting all these advanced degrees.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Personally, if I were you and I really wanted to be a pharmaceutical sales rep, I wouldn't spend all my time trying to get all these degrees. Instead, I think a more suitable use of your time would be to polish your sales skills. Go out and work selling something, anything, even if it's used cars. Salesmanship is a highly portable skill. Developing stud salesmanship skills is a more sure way to becoming a pharma rep than getting all these advanced degrees.
[/quote]
While experience may be more important in the long run, more degrees increases your chances of a higher entry point into the industry. More degrees will allow you to choose which industry and career you want to pursue. It increases your chances of success and increases the number of opportunities you have.</p>
<p>If you only had a PharmD, you'd be limited to the pharmaceutical/medical field. But if you also had a MSE ChemE, you would be guaranteed a position in the pharmaceutical/medical field with a higher salary.</p>
<p>The advantage of the PharmD degree is that it is the highest paying part time job. You should use that to your advantage by working at CVS and making $80,000 a year while going to school full time and obtaining your MSE ChemE in one year at age 25. The enter the pharmaceutical industry.</p>
<p>
[quote]
you would be guaranteed a position in the pharmaceutical/medical field with a higher salary.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>See, there you go again. And you accuse me of overstating things. The fact is, there are no guarantees to anything. I know people with both MBA's and doctorates in the health sciences who nonetheless still got turned down by pharmaceutical or health care companies. They did, interestingly, get investment banking offers. </p>
<p>Look, what I am saying is that you're really going at this in a hugely roundabout way. The truth is, most Big Pharma sales reps come in with nothing more than a bachelor's degree. And some don't even have that. What you're proposing is going to take a number of years to do, years that you could instead be working as an actual rep. </p>
<p>If you want to be a rep, just go and be a rep. In this case, the shortest path between two points really is a straight line. More degrees might help you secure a slightly better position that makes you a bit more money, but I have a hard time believing you would be better off than a guy who just worked as a rep from day 1. While you're getting all these degrees, he's out there working, getting experience, building leads and pipeline, and generally getting better. </p>
<p>You gotta also remember that when you talk about getting in at a higher entry point, when you're talking about sales, I don't really know what you mean. It's not like they're going to hand you a Director of Sales job just because you have all these degrees but no experience. You're still going to come in as a regular rep. You might come in with a boosted base salary, but the fact is, most of the money that you make as a rep comes from commissions, so any boosted base salary will mean little. Furthermore, sales is something that you learn and get better at through experience, not by getting degrees. I've seen plenty of people with plenty of fancy degrees who couldn't sell food to a starving man. </p>
<p>Now don't get me wrong. It's not like I'm completely disagreeing with you. I am actually somewhat sympathetic to the idea that the more you know about a product, the more you will be able to sell. That's true -but only up to a point. The truth is, you really don't need to know a product that well in order to sell it. That's why you have sales engineers. You just have to know the product well enough to know who would want it and why and why your product is supposedly better than the competition's, and the fact is, those are things the company will train you on. Might more degrees help you anyway? Yeah, probably. But not by very much, and certainly not by enough to make you want to stay in school and get all these extra degrees.</p>