PhD admissions - parent experience :)

I had dinner a little while ago with my kid’s high school BFF, who is just weeks away from defending her dissertation, in a not-very-commercial field. She’s at a top program, she has a hot specialty/skill within the field, so she has decent prospects for an academic job. She’s married to someone with very portable skills who is not yet entrenched in his career. That said, she’s very close to walking away from academia. She doesn’t want to move around all the time, she would really like to pick where she lives, and she believes – I think correctly – that someone with her intelligence and experience – not really her academic specialty, but lots of the supplementary skills that she had to acquire along the way – can make a much more comfortable, stable living in the business world than in academia. She’s not 100% sure yet – she’s interviewing for academic jobs – but she feels excited about the inflection point at which she finds herself.

She doesn’t regret having gone to graduate school at all. She has really loved most of her time in the program; she got paid to learn, to travel, and to research; she feels really enriched by the experience. After she got married, she had the flexibility to follow her husband around during his military service (although there were many months when they were not on the same continent). She was heading off to a four-day ad hoc consulting gig that was going to pay more than her husband made in a month. That doesn’t necessarily translate into an academic career, but there’s no tragedy involved.

I hope you are describing my son’s girlfriend! (Well her future - she’s nowhere near dissertation.)

Medical Physics is a big area, as is Computational Physics. Most departments offer computational physics courses, and research is being done in areas outside academia, such as the military.

DS when through the process in 2015 and is in a very good physics phd program now. Something I didn’t notice mentioned is location. Your DS should make sure he will be happy in whatever town/city he lands in. Not quite like starting freshman year college where the student has a ready made cohort and activities.

Besides all the wonderful info from posters above, you can get caught up in the minute to minute acceptance info at this site:

http://thegradcafe.com/survey/index.php?q=physics

Another site with some interesting info:

http://www.physicsgre.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=5eb278acf143abc5f9db83f85098f54f

Several years ago son did math grad school applications. He was at a top 20 (or higher) U with grad school courses included in his honors degree work. Math is a brutal field, of course he had stellar GRE scores but not as stellar math ones relatively (they even use a 900 scale for the math GRE). He overreached in his choices and did not get in anywhere. Later he heard from a classmate that a “lesser” program worked well. He did not reapply but chose to finish off the second major in computer science and work. He has been able to be intellectually challenged so far. I know a math PhD from elite schools (think U Chicago and MIT) who had trouble finding academic jobs after a post doc position- currently working in Turkey. When son started college he also was interested in physics and took several courses but ultimately chose math.

The grad café website mentioned above is excellent. Interesting to follow and see others’ credentials posted et al. Remember that there will be a first round of acceptances then once those chose their program it opens up spots for others. Getting funding seems to be a part of it- who wants a program that doesn’t feel you are strong enough to fund???

I learned a lot about how things work as a parent whose son divulged little. Parents both physicians who value education and we were (are?) a bit disappointed. Even for gifted students there can be many paths that yield an intellectually fulfilling life. Good luck to all in their paths.

@dadof1, you said there are more jobs in Biomedical Science for people with Masters degree than PhD, Were you talking about Biomedical Science & Engineering? If so, what kind of jobs? My D major is Macromolecular Science & Engineering with a minor in Biomedical Engineering. Thanks!

@LanaHere Please keep in mind that the nature of the jobs are VERY different for MS vs PhD degrees.

“…In the biomedical sciences, there are often more job opportunities for people with a masters degree than people with a PhD. Carefully consider why you/your offspring are going for the PhD and make sure it’s for the right reason(s)”

You may have a wider variety of job opportunities in biomedicine open to you (say in Marketing, Manufacturing, QC, etc) with a masters, but if you want a career in science (as I did) then a doctorate is more or less required to get to the higher levels. In my 35+ year scientific career in biotech and pharma I’ve seen very, very few department heads, senior managers, directors, or VPs in scientific endeavors who made it there with only a masters, No matter how capable the masters-only employee might be she/he will almost always lose out to some PhD or MD when it comes time to fill the top job. I say “almost” because there is occasionally an exception or two around, but they are very few and far between. And scientists who get to high levels with just a bachelors are true unicorns.

I started out in biomedical R&D in industry back in the mid-70s with just a BS, and I soon figured out that I’d never be anything more than some PhD’s assistant if I wanted to stay in science, which I did. So after 5 years of employment I quit and went back to grad school for four years and earned a PhD from a respectable but not top-end research university. And I’ve never regretted it. It’s made all the difference in my career.

But having said that, I should also add that having a PhD does mot guarantee that you will get the high or top jobs. What having the PhD guarantees is that you won’t be held back for NOT having it. You still have the have the goods to earn the promotions.

So @Scipio, what should a PhD Engineering applicant profile look like?
Should my D take the GRE for Engineering first? And when?

@lanahare. I am referring to permanent laboratory positions (at the bench) in the biomedical sciences. These types of positions are not typically staffed by PhDs, and are much more plentyful than the PhD-centric thought leader positions.
I don’t have any feel for engineering… sorry.

@scipio. You are absolutely correct. It’s also true that there are many more soldiers than generals in every field. Hence my comment.

@LanaHere There is no GRE specifically for engineering. An engineering applicant for an MS or PhD program will more than likely be required to submit the general GRE that includes Math, Verbal, and Analytical Writing sections. There may also be a subject area test in some science areas. I know there is a math test that goes beyond the math included in the general GRE but I have only seen that required of applicants to Math PhD programs.

The general GRE tests are offered via computer at test centers throughout the year. You just have to schedule a session online at the center you want to take the test at. I think the best strategy is to take it the first time early enough before the application due date to leave adequate time for retaking if desired. My daughter took the test the first time in August and then repeated it in latter September for December due dates.

I walked away from academia for the same reasons as @JHS’s kid’s BFF, after finishing my PhD and a one-year postdoc (that was originally supposed to be two). I also had a hot specialty area and skill within my field, and by all accounts would have had decent prospects. But I didn’t want to spend another 2-3 years in the small rural college town I was doing my postdoc in, and I didn’t want to end up in a TT position in a small rural college town, either. I wanted to pick where I lived, and have that be a place where my spouse could get a job, and where I might also be able to get some good Mediterranean food or take public transit or see a show that wasn’t on a college campus.

I did find out that someone with my intelligence and experience could make a more comfortable, stable living in a major urban area in business (specifically, tech). I do not regret leaving academia at all; I actually really love my job. The only thing I miss is the teaching. But I also don’t regret getting my PhD. I got to study something I love for 6 years; I built a lot of skills - a LOT - in that time; I networked and made a lot of friends, and I got to live in New York for 6 years of my 20s. Pretty dope.

YES. It is my (perhaps unpopular) opinion that it’s not worth going to a PhD program that’s not in the top 20-25 or so in most fields, and probably in the top 10-15 or so in humanities fields, if one has designs on academia. The academic market has gotten kind of like the law market in that way.

I had some friends and colleagues who weren’t particularly interested or worried about employability. They’re basically what cobrat said - students who came to the program because they were really passionate about the field and were far more interested in spending 7-8 years studying X than they were jobs. They usually took longer to graduate, and they were often from wealthy families.

In terms of poor job market situations, the academic market…especially in the humanities/social sciences preceded the law market by at least a decade or two.

There was already much disquieting concern about the poor job market for PhDs looking for tenure track positions or equivalent related non-academic jobs requiring PhDs when I was an undergrad in the '90s not only among some older relatives/friends/college alums in academia, but also in publications for those in academia such as Chronicle.

Two cases I knew of during my first year in college in the mid-'90s were two college friends of an older cousin who all graduated undergrad sometime in the early '80’s who were both felt underemployed despite having graduated with HYPSMCC PhDs in their respective fields(Anthropology and Biology).

One was working as an assistant director at a small university affiliated museum in a position which nominally only required a BA/MA and the other fell into a job as an analyst in a marketing research organization in a position which is usually filled with those who graduated from elite undergrad colleges/universities.

The equivalent situation in law didn’t really start happening on an equivalent scale until 2008. It was only ~2008 that the mentality of T-14 or well-connected local law school or bust really took hold with friends/acquaintances in law school/recently out of law school.

I’ve known Phd candidates who deliberately took as long as possible to graduate. They knew they were unlikely to get a tenure track position at a research university, but loved the research. More than that, I think many of them wanted to avoid taking a “real world” job at a corporation for as long as possible.

D has made it to the interview stage, and I’m wondering if she needs a suit. She has some business dresses (think sheaths in solid colors), but I’m thinking that especially for interviews in cold climates, a pantsuit might be a better choice.

What is her subject area? My D us in a STEM field – I can’t imagine that anyone is going to be formally dressed. Maybe for something like Econ?

My D just went through this last year. She is in math. In math, the early decisions came out mid-late January, early Feb. By mid-Feb, she had visited a few programs and had decided where to go in the fall. My impression was they admit stronger students first to have a chance to recruit by inviting them to visit. All her decisions came with details of financial offer, type of offer and work load if any. In STEM, it is common to get full support and their stipend is quite enough to fully support a reasonably comfortable life style except in the most expensive cities. There were differences in financial offers but not enough to sway my D over other considerations.

@intparent subject is psych, which I would have expected to be more artsy/casual, but gradcafe posts on the topic made me reconsider. Maybe conservative suit with a statement necklace? I want her to feel comfortable and confident with what she wears so she can focus on more important things!

My D in math wore cleans jeans claens tea shirt without logos in interviews. She didn’t feel out of place and this kid knows that kind of stuff. No idea if they dress up more in psych.