Philosophy/Science and Atheism

<p>kkiiji, i can answer ALL of your questions trust me…but my point, as stated before, is why do that when NOONE has answered mine? I already took MY TIME to put the third post up on this site. why take MORE TIME to explain to YOU YOUR question.???</p>

<p>I love how legendary just sneaks in here with his brilliant remarks once in a while. Damn straight, any idea how many different philosophical positions there are for the concept of truth?</p>

<p>But I have already answered yours, more than once. I have criticized the Kalam argument multiple times, and you have simply told me to watch videos.</p>

<p>seriously…im out, this is stupid. watch the video if you want i dont care…i sent it as a source to help you understand.</p>

<p>Help me understand? This guy is just addressing crappy arguments for the absence of God. Big deal?</p>

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<p>I know the principle of cause and effect perfectly, jackass.</p>

<p>Kalam argument:
cause (uncaused) -> effect (universe)</p>

<p>Principle of causality:
cause (caused) -> effect</p>

<p>Do you see the contradiction? The fact that there is a contradiction proves not that there is no God, but that you have failed to truly prove that there IS a God.</p>

<p>Just thought I’d mention before I leave that all of these “Craig is an expert - listen to him!” posts are 100% appeals to authority. I can list a huge number of philosophers who are atheists (Dennett probably being the most publicly active). Doesn’t help my case in the least.</p>

<p>Don’t know what college you’re attending, but I’d be happy to have a formal debate with you on any of these issues.</p>

<p>'night.</p>

<p>Bass just wants to rewrite it to:All things are caused, except God, because he’s special.</p>

<p>in case you glanced over this without reading it:</p>

<p>"Kalam argument:
cause (uncaused) -> effect (universe)</p>

<p>Principle of causality:
cause (caused) -> effect</p>

<p>Do you see the contradiction? "</p>

<p>but causality is a FACT, right?</p>

<p>@ Bass…</p>

<p>you’re blaming us for our ignorance while being guilty of the same crime, you prententious little hypocrite, you… </p>

<p>i forget who said this about quantum theory, but i feel like it can be applied just as well here:
“anyone who claims to understand quantum theory (or, in this case, the existence of God), doesn’t understand quantum theory.”</p>

<p>The uncertainty of the source of our origin is a topic that has been discussed and debated over for centuries. Many of the debates that were sparked in previous years could not be resolved, simply because the evidence was not there to support either side. With the advances of modern technology, however, it now takes more blind faith to consider anything other than the idea that we do indeed have a Creator of the universe. In this article, relying on the information that modern technology now provides, I will prove that our origin was indeed the product of none other than Intelligent Design, and that we do indeed have a Creator.</p>

<p>THE FATAL BLOW TO DARWIN’S THEORY:</p>

<p>The first aforementioned topic of debate I will discuss, and perhaps one of the most recognized in the world of Atheism, is that of Darwinism. Perhaps the most fatal blow to Charles Darwin’s theory is our modern knowledge of the “tree of life” sketch, and only sketch, from Darwin’s book “The Origin of Species”. Darwin failed miserably to recognize what scientists today call “the fossil record”, knowing that it in no way supported his theory. In fact, Jonathan Wells at the Discovery Institute points out that, “In fact, Darwin knew the fossil record FAILED to support his tree. He acknowledged the major groups of animals - he calls them divisions, now they’re called phyla - appear suddenly in the fossil record.” Darwin had hoped that fossil discoveries of the future would help promote his theory in genertions to come, but unfortunately for him, that has not happened. On the contrary, we find in the fossil record what scientists now call the “Cambrian Explosion”; the idea that all species were created and appeared on the Earth within fifteen minutes of each other! Instead of forming different animal groups over millions of years through the process of “Natural Selection” according to the tree of life sketch, we now know that the image here can best and most applicably be described as individual blades of grass. This fully supports the fact that each species sprouted into existence, independently from the next, and were created within just moments within the same time frame.</p>

<p>THE COSMOLOGICAL ARGUEMENT:</p>

<p>The next topic I will discuss has intrigued and puzzled even the most prestigious scholars and scientists for many centuries. They used to think that the known universe was a static intity, and that the stars and everything contained therin it just “hung” in outer-space, never moving from the same spot. With the formation in 1915 of Albert Einstein’s Law of Relativity, however, the science of Cosmology now points drastically to the evidence of a Creator. According to Einstein’s mathmatical equations, the universe should either be in a constant state of explosion or implosion; expansion or contraction. Thanks to the astronomer Edwin Hubble, in 1929, we now know that the universe is in a constant state of expansion. Knowing that the universe is indeed expanding at a constate rate relative to distance, we can trace the universe back far enough to find that at one point, it did not exist. From this, it is easy for one to come to the conclusion that, because the universe at a certain point did not exist, someone must have had to create, or SPEAK, it in to existince. I agree with Lee Strobel when he says, “This sounds a lot like the Bible’s Genesis chapter one to me!”</p>

<p>THE BIBLE KNEW THE EARTH WAS A SPHERE 700 YEARS PRIOR TO SCIENCE:</p>

<p>The third topic of discussion derives from an event that took place in 1492 when Christopher Columbus discovered America. During this time, it would have been preposterous to have sailed out into the ocean blue, mainly because everyone thought that the Earth was flat; everyone except Christopher Columbus. Columbus was a renaissance man, but perhaps more importantly, he was a God-fearing Christian who knew better. It was because of his faith in the Holy Bible’s book of Job, that enabled him to set out into the undiscovered territories of the world. In Job 26:7, he read that the Earth is “spherical” and points to the fact that the Earth “hangs upon nothing”. This was over 700 years before modern science could have told him this! This information could in no way have been understood by any man of that time period, other than by reading the Holy Bible. Only the Bible’s author could have known these facts in this time period; God Himself!</p>

<p>THE COSMOS: BALANCED ON A RAZOR’S EDGE:</p>

<p>Another piece of evidence that points to our universe having a Creator, is the make up of the cosmos and the fact that its components balance on a razor’s edge. Within the past twenty-five years, all information on this topic, or lack thereof, has left people critics and skeptics. But today, that is no longer a problem. The reality that we can now rest our faith in is directly related to substantial evidence in this area of science. “It is quite easy to understand why so many scientists have changed their minds in the past thirty years, agreeing that the universe cannot reasonably be explained as a cosmic accident,” says Walter Bradley in Lee Strobel’s novel “The Case for a Creator”. “Evidence for an intelligent designer becomes more compelling the more we understand about our carefully crafted habitat.” And carefully crafted our universe is indeed. Our universe can now actually be measured fourteen billion light years across from end to end exactly! The force of gravity along this large of a scale perhaps points most drastically towards the evidence of a Creator. Imagine a large ruler stretched over the span of the entire universe with the force of gravity centered in the middle of that ruler exactly in a very specific spot. If you were to move the force of gravity’s equation even ONE inch on that ruler, the effects would be catastrophic on human life on Earth! If that is not balancing on a razor’s edge, I do not know what is.</p>

<p>THE SPACE-TIME THEORUM MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE PRIOR TO ITS TITLE:</p>

<p>The Holy Bible can arguably be considered the most reliable source for evidence in a Creator. Part of this has to do with the fact that before physicists ever concieved of the space-time theorum, the Bible had already described the extra-dimensional reality. In Hugh Ross’ book “Beyond the Cosmos”, he states that, “…time must rank as one of the greatest human achievements of the twentieth century, far more amazing is the Bible writers’ depiction of phenomena in dimensions beyond the length, width, height, and time humans can experience or mentally picture.” Not only did the Bible know about prophesy of the space-time theorum, but it would have been completely impossible for the writers to have just imagined such a reality at the time frame that the Bible was written. Only the mind of a Creator could have been able to process the reality of the extra-dimensional reality. You can not “evolve” that kind of intelligence, no matter how long of a time frame you are dealing with. I am dreadfully sorry Mr. Darwin, but you can not evolve intelligence; it had to start somewhere, with someone.</p>

<p>INFORMATION IS LEARNED FROM FORMER INTELLIGENCE:</p>

<p>Information is communicated to one another through our minds. This is yet another piece of evidence that points to us having an Intelligent Designer or Creator. As you are reading this right now, what do you see? If you were to say that you can see “words” or “letters”, then you are wrong. What is actually on this page, are a series of squiggles and lines that only form the “words” and “letters” that I have strategically placed, in a very specific order, to create the “words” on this page that you are now reading. If information was a property of the page, then we would never have to LEARN to read; the information would just fly off of the page and impose itself onto our minds whenever we looked at it. The same idea can be applied when looking at creation. Everything that we know as human beings, is a result of former intelligence. This former intelligence can only come from a Creator, and could never be the result of mere evolution. You can not evolve intelligence; it had to start somewhere with someone. </p>

<p>THE MORAL ARGUEMENT:</p>

<p>The last topic of discussion that points towards creation is that of the moral arguement. Morals contain a sense of obligation that are universal. Thay are by no means opinions. Everyone follows the same set of morals no matter what they think, or want to believe. Our Creator has given us all the same standards that we must follow. In order to prove moral objectivism, Christian thinker Francis Schaeffer once had a conversation with several of his pupils. One student believed that there was no difference between cruelty and non-cruelty. Another student then held a boiling pot of water over the first students head and stated, “There is no difference bewteen cruelty and non-cruelty?!” I am willing to bet that the first student believed in morals after that demonstration of intelligence. You can not evolve morals, just like intelligence, they had to start somewhere, with somebody.</p>

<p>IN CONCLUSION:</p>

<p>In todays classrooms, all over the United States, and all over the world, false and out-dated information is infecting the minds, and therefore souls, of God’s people. Biology books to this day are printing and promoting Darwin’s theory as truth, instead of presenting and recognizing the fact that it is at best, a disproved theory, not a scientific law. Christopher Columbus’ faith in God is left hidden, and the reliability of our Creator’s Bible is left questioned. It is my hope and prayer, that in the near future, people will step outside of their classrooms and narrow-minds, and discover what modern technology tells us in countless ways; there is a Creator of the universe.</p>

<p>what a useful thread</p>

<p>(fill in sarcasm where necessary)</p>

<p>THE FATAL BLOW TO DARWIN’S THEORY:
This criticism came from someone who is has horrible knowledge of biology. The Cambrian explosion is not some “miracle” that has no rational explanation, it has to do with simple adaptive radiation due to a lack of predation and an abundance of resources. Consider Darwin’s Galapagos finches, but on a much much wider scale. </p>

<p>THE COSMOLOGICAL ARGUEMENT:
I’ve already addressed this argument. Without considering quantum cosmology, we only need to look at the idea of a singularity of space-time that scientific evidence points to. With this singularity, space and time is crunched into one point/one moment, effectively eliminating the application of causality, and God along with it. </p>

<p>THE BIBLE KNEW THE EARTH WAS A SPHERE 700 YEARS PRIOR TO SCIENCE:
To assume that the Bible meant the Earth was spherical just because it said it hangs on nothing is the biggest stretch of reason I have ever seen. I can imagine plenty of non-spherical things that hang on nothing. </p>

<p>THE COSMOS: BALANCED ON A RAZOR’S EDGE:
Now we must dive into quantum cosmology. Given the idea that this universe is the result of probabilistic quantum fluctuations, the concept of multiple universes can be and has been derived. In other words, there are infinite possibilities of different universes, and ONLY on the one where humans exist can they speculate the delicate nature of the universe. But if infinite universes exist, then how could there not be one where humans exist? </p>

<p>THE SPACE-TIME THEORUM MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE PRIOR TO ITS TITLE:
Are you serious? Time being a dimension is some kind of concept that’s too intelligent for anyone to come up with without science? Do you realize with a dimension means? It’s simply a method of measurement. Why is that so complicated? </p>

<p>INFORMATION IS LEARNED FROM FORMER INTELLIGENCE:
Ockham’s razor dictates that the simplest explanation is the most rational one. Well intelligence can be easily explained by science, so can the transfer of information. God fears the razor. </p>

<p>THE MORAL ARGUEMENT:
But we humans have similar morals because we are biologically similar, a product of evolution. Ockham’s razor once again cuts away the need for God. </p>

<p>You got nothing.</p>

<p>if anyone is thinking what I was…yes Occam’s razor can be spelled like that</p>

<p>Main Entry:
Oc·cam’s razor Listen to the pronunciation of Occam’s razor
Variant(s):
also Ock·ham’s razor ˈä-kəmz-\ </p>

<p>[Occam’s</a> razor - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary](<a href=“http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Occam’s%20razor]Occam’s”>Occam's razor Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster)</p>

<p>Indeed it can. :)</p>

<p>Well his name was William of Ockham - I actually don’t know the story behind how it became Occam. I always say Ockham, but we seem to be in the minority.</p>

<p>What made god? Meaning if nothing came from nothing.</p>

<p>Nothing comes from nothing = god doesn’t exist at that point because god = something right?</p>

<p>Who made god?</p>

<p>Oh and by the way. Religion restricts science :(</p>

<p>Science should have no restrictions.</p>

<p>men who were confused…like me when I wonder why people think dane cook is entertaining</p>

<p>hey, maybe we should ask santa.</p>

<p>haha santa…i laugh at christmas…</p>

<p>It’s quite unfathomable to prove whether there is a God, or there is not, or if it all really matters. It kills time, but… it may end up with two different views shouting at each other.
How about…
Catholicism vs the reformed view of Christianity, such as presbyterian, protestant, Lutheran…etc?
This is a question for the Christian believers of course.
What are the differences? Is one just conservative(traditional), and the other reformed? And how so reformed?</p>