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<p>I don’t know your daughter, but in my opinion, she and many others DID have a shot at big name schools. Many get in who don’t work with certain coaches who are well connected to those program directors. My kid did and so did many we know.</p>
<p>Like kaysmom says, it is what it is and you can’t control this situation.</p>
<p>That is all true of course, but there is a scammy, kick-backy element here that has always bothered me as well. Post #173 sums it up nicely. The numbers at some of these places are jaw-dropping and while I’m sure she’s an excellent coach and the kids are plenty talented it cannot be co-incidental. And it happens year after year.</p>
<p>I suppose it’s show-biz, but it’s also college and it’s troubling.</p>
<p>Flossy, I do get it! Initially, I was surprised that BFA program directors were willing to meet with private audition coaches’ students and even hold private auditions for them. It was eye opening.</p>
<p>I was just going to write what kaysmom wrote…I think far beyond the reality of MT and Acting, who you know is a huge factor. Though somewhat discouraging to think of it not being an equal playing field for all our kids who auditioned and worked so incredibly hard, the reality is - rarely will they find an equal playing field as they pursue jobs in the ‘real world’. I know so many people who have gotten jobs, myself included, because I knew someone (outside this industry). If a job has 500 applicants, the employer has to find some means of weeding through all those resumes. A good word from a colleague, friend or co-worker may be the thing that compels ones resume to rise to the top. That goes on every day in corporations all across the country. To think that wouldn’t exist in this setting is unrealistic. They will find the same reality once they start searching for work post-college. They may well get a role based on someone they knew, a recommendation from another cast member, etc… I am not seeking to diminish the frustration many feel, but I do think this is something our kids are going to have to face throughout their careers. Hard to hit it at 18, but it is a learning experience that will indeed compel them to show up in every audition room being the best “me” they can and then let go of the outcome recognizing it is based on SO many factors beyond their talent.</p>
<p>Yes, but this isn’t really who you know, it’s who knew enough to pay.</p>
<p>It could work against the kid, too, though. Isn’t it also a risk that the kid will be seen and remembered for NOT performing well, not taking direction well, etc? Sometimes those first impressions are lasting.
The kids have to be plenty talented or completely prepared to begin with, I would think.</p>
<p>Flossy, Agreed! But it goes so far beyond just the coaches. There are teachers at some big performing arts high schools that also have sessions with these college professors…there are summer programs that have in college professors to get a first hand look and hold private auditions. It goes on and on. There are kids applying to these programs that have tons of professions credits, have parents “in the biz”…it’s amazing that any “regular” kid can get accepted but it does happen. My daughter was from a small town, no big professional credits…it can happen.</p>
<p>You are absolutely right, Merlehay!!!</p>
<p>Glass Harmonica and Dreamslikz…no matter what anyone says, I believe most of the kids at this stage have talent, or the parents wouldn’t be encouraging them to continue in this field. I’m sure you’ve seen it in your own children; I’ve seen it in mine. So what gets some kids in to these schools? I think that it is definitely a scandal for a college dept. chair to be conducting her “business” this way. I disagree that this can’t be changed as Kaysmom thinks. I truly believe that if a college’s program loses credibility, then it loses applicants and suddenly stops being “The best.” A coach is clearly an advantage, but not necesarily because she “coaches” a child up but more likely because she is part of a corrupt audition process involving simultaneous “back scratching.” I’m not complaining, but I am stating the obvious. For anyone who disagrees, let us see if this becomes public, if anyone is defending their actions then. Do you honestly believe that there wouldn’t be outrage if most of the parents knew this? Carnegie Mellon should return everyone’s audition fees because the auditions were at least partially rigged. And, I too am not blaming the parents or their kids for this.</p>
<p>“no matter what anyone says, I believe most of the kids at this stage have talent, or the parents wouldn’t be encouraging them to continue in this field.”</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but that is faulty reasoning. Parents are the LEAST reliable judge of their children’s talent, and there are many many kids auditioning who just don’t have what it takes. </p>
<p>I will admit that I am using a coach for my child for next year and I don’t feel that I am participating in anything corrupt. I don’t think her coaches are unethical in any way. They are helping my D to do the best auditions that she can, and that is it.</p>
<p>gigrighta…I think you are mistaken to believe that CMU is the only school holds masters classes and has this kind of connection. This is not something new. It’s been known for years. My daughter did this college audition process 6 years ago and it was known then.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, I may be in the minority here, but I don’t think the auditions were “rigged” at CMU or elsewhere (and no, my D did not get in). So if the head of a MT department shouldn’t give master classes for a coach, does that mean they can’t give a master class elsewhere? Because they do. All the time. My D did a master class with Brent Wagner of UMich at Goodpseed Opera House in CT. It was very informative, and ANYONE could have applied. And, in fact, one of the people at that master class got into UMich (and CMU). He got in b/c he was incredibly talented, not b/c he went to the master class. </p>
<p>Master classes help the students too…some kids go to a master class and decide they didn’t like the way a school or a professor teaches, and then they decide not to apply to that school. Or, conversely, they can fall in love with a program director and decide to apply to the school because of their experience in the class. Do some professors/ program directors see a student in a master class and think, “I really want that kid in my program?” Undoubtedly. But what’s wrong with that??? They were going to see that child at auditions and think the same thing. </p>
<p>There is absolutely no way that these schools are going to sacrifice a spot in their coveted, highly competitive program to make a coach happy. These schools take just a handful of kids…why would they take someone they don’t want? Are you implying that the schools are being paid to take certain kids? That is a very serious accusation, and one I cannot believe is true. Nor would it be financially viable. These professors and program directors can and do master classes all over, for coaches, for theaters, for camps…yes, they get paid to do it. But it cannot possibly be enough money to warrant taking a student they don’t want into their tiny college program.</p>
<p>CMU took the kids that they thought were the best for their program, undoubtedly without ANY regard to who was coached or wasn’t coached, or who they were coached by. The bottom line is that kids can get in to top programs without coaches. Kids with coaches also get into top programs. It’s the talent…it all comes down to the talent. If your child is talented, and the right fit for a particular school, they have a good chance at getting into that school. Period. </p>
<p>Gigrighta, you say that most of the kids at this stage have talent. Most - but not all - do. But it is not the same level of talent. There are clearly some stand out kids. Look at the acceptance thread. Some kids are getting in virtually everywhere. They are getting in b/c they are more talented. Sorry, but it’s true. There are kids who are being coached getting in nowhere. Coaching can help kids choose the right audition material, refine their college list, perfect their monologues, etc. But a less talented kid is not going to get into a school because of their coach. Ever. Money cannot buy talent.</p>
<p>monkey, you are right, that a coach cannot get you in unless you were already qualified enough to get in. I had an advisee who worked with coaches that are talked a lot about on CC who are excellent coaches, but this girl did not get into any audition based schools, though landed at Muhlenberg. </p>
<p>I don’t think coaching is unfair at all and I recommend audition coaching. I don’t think Master Classes are unfair either. I do think that some don’t realize, however, and I am not saying this is unfair necessarily, that there are private auditions that several BFA programs attend for students coached by a private coach. I was surprised that colleges do that but it is what it is. Like you say, if a school wants a kid, they will take them no matter how they find them.</p>
<p>Adding volume to Monkey13, who was much more eloquent: I’ve had three kids go through the audition process, at both highly competitive schools and somewhat lesser ones, and with varying levels of success. A couple of observations, for what it’s worth. (1) At least in the urban/suburban area where I live, a kid will not be able to play a varsity sport or get a lead in a high school play without outside coaching. Whether it’s a club sport or voice/dance/acting, kids with the outside training will have a huge advantage. (2) There are hundreds of “coaches” and private counselors that assist with college - for academics, sports or theater. You don’t have to like it or engage in it, but it’s the way the world is for the most competitive schools. (3) The college decision-makers are not insane - while I can’t deny that having seen a kid in a non-audition master class can give that kid an advantage (at least at the margins), they are not going to select students that they don’t think are going to be the best for their programs. The college auditors have their own reputations, and those of their schools, to protect - I doubt they’d knowingly jeopardize that for what’s probably not a lot of money. (Full disclosure: while I’d never heard of the coach who started this discussion, we did utilize a coach who worked with my S on his monologue and prescreen video and another who provided vocal training. In the area where we live, my son would have been unique among students seeking competitive programs to NOT have used a coach. I think the coaching was a key part of my son’s success in auditioning this year.)</p>
<p>Just to provide another perspective:</p>
<p>I coach/mentor kids that are a part of my theater program for practically free (I just make sure the pianist and the room rental is covered). If I know you and I’ve worked with you since you were 12, I want to help you get in to college-- and I volunteer my time.</p>
<p>I don’t have any contacts with ANY programs and I have kids get into top programs every year. There is something to be said for having someone in your corner who really cares about you and wants you to succeed. The confidence you gain from preparation is enough to get you into a great school if you are very talented.</p>
<p>Any help you can get in this process will help you to feel more solid about your material and the more solid you are about your material, the less nervous you are, and the less nervous you are, the more you will show the REAL YOU-- and that’s what will get you into a top program. Preparation is really important, but you don’t have to see “the right coach”. Just get someone you trust to help you with your material and make sure you are showing everything that is great about you (from the moment you walk in the door)</p>
<p>Also, just knowing how things work year after year is helpful and you can gain a lot of that knowledge here!</p>
<p>Excellent post, MTCoachNYC. My son’s coach doesn’t have that kind of network either, and his students get into top programs too – including Carnegie Mellon University this year (acting). The coach is someone my son has worked with for years and they had a good rapport. It really helped my son to feel he was as well-prepared as he could possibly be. If he had a good high school drama teacher he might have been able to achieve the same thing.</p>
<p>I do advise, though, for parents to keep out of the artistic decisions. It helped ME to know that the whole monologue thing was between my son and his coach.</p>
<p>Thanks prodesse. I think its important to have a dual approach. Work with the person who knows your child best-- what they need work on, what their strengths are, etc. so that you can be sure their material and entire “package” reflects THEM. </p>
<p>Then be sure to get your material in front of people who have never met you. It’s one thing to work with someone who knows every nuance of you, but what do people think about you who have never met you before? I usually have trouble getting kids to do this step, but the ones who do are usually more successful. ALSO- you just feel calm about the fact that you can do your material in front of strangers!</p>
<p>I agree prodesse about parents staying out of selecting the material-- some kids I work with are children of Broadway performers and even those parents don’t get involved in material selection!</p>
<p>Had I even known about acting coaches I most certainly would have considered having my D go to one… no one ever suggested it to us and when I say no one I mean none of her dance teachers, hs drama teacher or school counselor ever suggested that might be an option for us to explore. I wouldn’t do it thinking I’m giving my D a leg up on getting in to the top named schools but for the experience alone. Same with summer workshops. NO IDEA!! We had no help picking songs or monologues. We searched the internet reading DO’s and DONT’s. My D auditioned for Barb and Gary and came out feeling great after her audition with them. She received a lot of positive feedback from both of them. That’s good enough for us. We went into this knowing it would be like hitting the lottery but you have to be in it to win it. No regrets with any auditions we did but at the same time hearing some of the stories about the coaching and the connections it does make me feel bad.</p>
<p>Mary Anna had 1 student placed at CMU last year (unless there are others that didn’t decide to attend but there is only 1 on her website). Just 1. I don’t think the fix is in I think it just happens several of her students had a good year at CMU. Correction, Mary Anna’s business had a good year because she had a solid number of students that signed up for her services who were quite competitive. In the end it is the student that gets themselves in, not the coach. These same 4 might have gotten in regardless.</p>
<p>(And no, we didn’t use a coach and I’ve never met her and have no idea exactly what magic if any she works. It doesn’t matter.)</p>
<p>Dang, I wish I knew her before the auditioning !! My son did really well on his own, but think of what could have been had he had professional coaching. I am only regretful I had no idea about their existence. Like someone else on this thread said, not one person recommended it to us. Didn’t even see it on the internet and i researched it a lot !! Monologues, song choices. Coaching never popped up. Who knows, he may not have gotten into CMU or Umich, but we will never know what could have been. They won’t make him successful in his pursuit, he will have to absorb everything he is being offered at another top school. Working actors are coming out of many of the schools now. Good luck to all of our kids who will now go on to live out their dream. I hope they all become friends and reach out to each other utilizing everyones talents when they can. And congrats to the kids who got in to their top choice schools. I am sure they worked really hard !</p>