<p>If this conversation is about CMU auditions, please be aware they do not participate in Moonifieds. I do not know if they hold private auditions anywhere but i do not think they do. As far as I’m aware, they hold on campus auditions and participate in Unifieds. All of the major programs do master classes throughout the country, throughout the year. These are not auditions. And these are publicized by sponsoring organizations when open to the public. Sometimes these classes may be held for a certain school or group of students who arrange for the class. That is ok. Not every class needs to be open to the public. This is commonplace in many fields and is a great opportunity for students to learn from professionals in their field. But theses are not auditions. I think if you look at the make up of kids at all of the major programs it is evident they all seek to find a diverse pool of really talented kids. This includes all socioeconomic and ethnic backgrounds. I do not for one minute think they have any desire to only choose from wealthy students, schools or coaches. I agree with the previous poster who said “not coached” means they want the actors to be natural. it doesn’t mean they expect these students to have had no training. perhaps its a matter of semantics and they need to change how they phrase that in their literature. but obviously most of these kids have worked with someone at some point in their young careers-- whether it is a high school teacher or a professional college audition coach. It is an extremely difficult task to find just the talent they seek. Sure, the system may not be perfect. But show me one school that does have a perfect system. Every school on this board has some people who did not like the way they run their audition and selection process. cMU is an outstanding institution. The theatre program faculty are exemplary professionals, and I am in awe of the talent produced by the program. Did my “coached” kid want to go there? Of course. Did she get in? Unfortunately no. But I find no fault with her coach, CMU , the process or anything else. She had a fantastic audition. The CMU people spent more time and gave more feedback than most auditors did. It was a pleasant experience auditioning for them. So I support their master classes. I support the way they conduct their auditions. I applaud all those who got in. And we move on.</p>
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<p>Not all of us are missing them. ActingDad and I both have mentioned this, and I agree that even an appearance of impropriety (which clearly exists) is a problem. One would think that a school would want to avoid it.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is about CMU, really. It’s about how much power or influence several schools give to a private paid coach in selecting their incoming class and if that’s okay. And then people take it off into endless directions. So it never stops…</p>
<p>Actor12, but I don’t think the blame here lies at all with MAD. Or any of the coaches. They are not running non- for profit businesses, nor are they getting funds from tax payers ( ie Michigan Texas State, etc). They are running small businesses and why wouldn’t they use these connections? It is benefiting their students which in turn benefits their business.</p>
<p>CMU, is not the only school doing this, but it may be the most prominent school doing this for both MT and acting. And it’s a prominent school period. People would travel from anywhere for their engineering or arts programs. Texas state for example, is not on the radar for half ( or more than half) of this country. </p>
<p>Juilliard, which I think everyone here would agree is even more prominent than CMU, doesn’t get involved in these shenanigans. So clearly it is not necessary to find talent.</p>
<p>Yes, this thread should be moved and renamed. We aren’t talking exclusively about CMU but about access to certain programs through certain coaches.</p>
<p>It’s tough. There are a lot of kids out there that don’t have access to coaching, good hs programs, the financial ability to take dance classes, etc. Coaches that offer scholarships are great, but how does the kid even find out about them? Maybe their parents are so busy working and trying to keep a roof over their heads that worrying about their child pursuing the arts in college is the LAST thing on their list. It seems to me that so many of these programs want only the polished kids and have little interest in finding and teaching raw talent.</p>
<p>Walker1194, it’s not just that kids might not be able to find a coach that offers scholarships, like Ms Dennard–it’s that the majority of kids & parents & schools have NO IDEA that they need extensive coaching in order to be properly competitive in many programs. The programs claim they are looking for ‘raw talent.’ But they often make no effort for outreach, public school connections, and transparent expectations. Heck, CMU says ‘no coaching’ when their student body is highly coached. So what they get is an artificially small sampling size of students who are on average wealthier, with more educated parents, & part of the dominant culture. Since ‘raw talent’ is dispersed evenly among classes & races (in general) something is wrong with this picture.</p>
<p>This is untrue for any other field I can think of. Sports recruits KNOW that they require years of specialized training to be competitive, AND colleges coaches SEEK OUT low income/public schools by VISITING there. Academic recruits make an effort to encourage under-represented minorities & impoverished students with mentoring, outreach etc.</p>
<p>Yet despite what I know to be extremely good intentions and very devoted faculty, BFA programs are actually recruiting not for ‘raw talent’ as they claim. I think they can START by posting recommendations on their websites for how to prepare for the auditions. This would included coaching, with offers for scholarships for coaching. I think the other issue is that a lot of bFA programs are not wealthy & are money losers for the college. So I’d call on the college itself, not the department, to start the conversation & transparency.</p>
<p>Actually, I disagree with you on aspect of your comment. Most musical theatre kids and parents are well aware and “KNOW” they need training. Many take voice lessons, dance, and acting classes, summer camps, etc. for years. I guess there are some that just take choir and drama in their schools, but most fine arts kids are getting outside training in our neck of the woods.</p>
<p>And just curious, what schools say, and use those words, that they are looking for “raw talent.” I am not disputing it. I just never saw it.</p>
<p>Finally, as everyone knows, my son used Mary Anna for his monologue preparation. Five hours. Not certain anyone could call that “extensive.” He also took two master classes she sponsored.</p>
<p>I do agree, CMU should remove the “no coaching” description next to their audition notes.</p>
<p>I agree with grayhairedman. My D had little coaching with Mary Anna BUT she definitely has been working with acting coaches and vocal training since she began this journey in musical theatre. It is important to TRAIN. Would anyone dispute a dancer that takes additional classes from a private teacher? We live in a town where any young person who is involved in professional theatre seeks and get training and private coaching. You must hone your craft. It is an old saying. I disagree with the fact that parents are upset that some children train. Welcome to the world of acting. Training gives you credibility. It just depends on how serious one is about their craft. </p>
<p>Disappointment and rejection is so much a part of this business. It is not only about talent but about the relationships you build. Directors want to work with talented people with a great attitude. Word of mouth and knowing your work ethic. </p>
<p>Could we afford all the money for coaching and voice lessons? No. But we could not not afford it. This is her chosen career path and it is an investment toward that career.</p>
<p>^^I haven’t read anyone criticizing coaching and training. I highly recommend it.</p>
<p>No one is criticizing coaching! Really. The comments about the particular MT programs (note the plural) using the particular coach seem to be a fair questioning of “what is right”. I agree with the comments about there being a need for separation between the coach and the school arbiters. And to really underscore this - I am going to tell my friends who’s kids will be auditioning next year to make sure they connect with that coach if they want a leg up. How can I keep that info from them - and yet - ick!</p>
<p>"–it’s that the majority of kids & parents & schools have NO IDEA that they need extensive coaching in order to be properly competitive in many programs. The programs claim they are looking for ‘raw talent.’"</p>
<p>“Sports recruits KNOW that they require years of specialized training to be competitive,…”. By Connections (guess I need instructions on how to put quotes in those fancy boxes).</p>
<p>My comments and I believe those of djexpress were responding to these of connections. I don’t speak for djexpress of course. She handles herself just fine.</p>
<p>Connections stated that MT kids don’t know they need training in order to compete, but that Sports kids did know.</p>
<p>Further, by stating that they need “extensive coaching” in order to compete, connections diminishes the role of talent, (dare I say even say “raw talent”) plays into all of this. I can only speak for my son and our situation.</p>
<p>Yes, it’s true everyone is NOW saying that the coaches are doing nothing wrong. Earlier in the thread the coaches and their relationships with professors were being criticized. You can still say its just the professors’ fault, but the Moonifieds of Mary Anna Dennard are a service and the Master Classes with the teachers are instruction - only. They are helping students prepare and, having attended (audited) these master classes, I can tell you that nothing is ever promised or implied to give a student a leg up on these college auditions by taking one of these classes. An audition at Moonifieds in Dallas is no better than Unifieds in Chicago unless by location or date. </p>
<p>Everyone wants transparency? I think it’s pretty transparent. What is being obfuscated here? College professors are teaching master classes for money. Not much money, but money. These same people get to help decide if a small handful of students make it into the programs where they teach. Seems transparent to me. </p>
<p>Officially retiring from this thread.</p>
<p>I’m unclear as to why there are private auditions through private coaches or other entities. Until a few years ago, I thought all the auditions were either on campus, at Unifieds, or at select cities run by the programs themselves. There may be nothing wrong with this, but I think some are wondering about the appearance of auditions being set up this way. I don’t quite see many looking negatively on coaching, training, master classes and the like. That’s what I am taking from the discussion. I think the discussion itself shows that appearances matter even if nothing is necessarily unethical, etc. It might be food for thought for the programs. </p>
<p>Yes, people should research this whole college process for performing arts. I have researched it extensively both as a parent and as a college advisor in this field for 10 years, but when I first learned of the private auditions (not speaking of coaching, nor master classes) a few years ago when one of my advisees attended this audition in Texas, I was taken by surprise as I was unaware of this practice until that point. The private auditions are not widely known. </p>
<p>Again, I think that college programs accept whomever they want and find them in any way they want. As I wrote before, my kid got into a number of programs sight unseen until the campus audition day and so do many others. I believe the kids who get in after being seen in master classes via coaches and private auditions via coaches, get in on their own merits as well, though there is some “connection” in terms of being seen by and/or discussed by the parties involved. It can’t hurt, but obviously the kids have to have the talent to begin with. If anything, this discussion will bring more business to those involved in these practices and so while clients may be complaining, it likely will be a win win here!</p>
<p>Does anybody posting here have any reason to believe CMU gives private auditions for private coaches? There seems to be that implication, but I don’t think it’s true. As far as I can tell, the only, perhaps, somewhat problematical thing they’ve ben accused of is that Barbara said something nice about the coach on her website. Could this be much ado about nothing?
For the record, my sone got into CMU, and we had never heard of such a thing as an audition coach, although he got in for acting, not MT, so maybe it’s different.
As long as we’re also talking about whether wealthy parents can give a student a leg up, I’d like to mention the sadly departed Pennsylvania Governor’s School for the Arts, an audition based, publicly funded summer program for talented students no matter what their background. Since it was free, it attracted students of all backgrounds, including inner city. I know one of my son’s classmates at the Governor’s School was from inner city Philadelphia, and he got into CMU and added greatly to their class. Other states have similar programs, but unfortunately ours became the victim of budget cuts.</p>
<p>pennmom, you are right…CMU does NOT participate in the private college auditions run by a private audition coach. This discussion has gotten into a broader topic and some of it has nothing to do with CMU and some of it has to do with several schools including CMU. </p>
<p>There are some BFA programs that participate in a college audition event via a private coach (but CMU is not one of these).</p>
<p>Thanks for making that clear, soozievt. It seems this thread is mostly being critical of CMU, and I’m trying to sort out just what CMU does, if anything, that is different from most other schools. The only thing I have seen so far is that Barbara made a comment on Mary Anna’s website.</p>
<p>Barbara’s comment on the website is actually referring to Mary Anna’s book about preparing for college auditions called “I Got In”, a book I would recommend to anyone considering auditioning. Barbara, along with the heads of many other MT programs are cited in the book. Students can read first hand what these professionals are looking for in the audition process. for those who say they aren’t privy to what different schools want in an audition, this is a great place to start your research. </p>
<p>You are correct CMU does not participate in Moonifieds. But for those schools who do, i strongly believe there is nothing wrong with this type of audition. Outside of campus auditions and Unifieds you can audition for schools at thespian conferences, summer camps and training programs, and some schools all of which you get to do because you have paid a fee or paid to be a part of that program. There are many places one can choose to audition if they wish. All are conducted equally and carry the same weight with the auditors. To insinuate otherwise is just wrong.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is insinuating that the private auditions carry more weight than other auditions. There is that extra “rapport” that whomever is running these private auditions gets to have with the auditors regarding their students. Add in the privately run audition master classes for their students, that is also a lot of face time with the auditors. Not saying ANY of it is unfair. It is what it is. It’s great for the kids who get to do this!</p>
<p>Until reading this thread, I did not know that private auditions were held at other locations such as schools or training camps. So, that is not a well known fact. I only knew about campus auditions, Unifieds, and college auditions held in various cities by some colleges.</p>
<p>I learned about the thespian conferences on CC a number of years ago but would not have known of those otherwise given that students in my state don’t attend that and I have not worked with kids elsewhere who attended that either. </p>
<p>I learned of Moonifieds (private coach’s college auditions with a dozen or more colleges) when an advisee of mine attended as he was working with that coach. Then, it was also mentioned here on CC. </p>
<p>Now, based on the poster above, I am learning that actual auditions are held at schools and camps or training programs, but did not know of that either. I have not known anyone who attended such things where auditions were held. I work with kids around the country pursuing this field but apparently have not met any who attended private auditions other than the Moonifieds ones. </p>
<p>Nothing wrong with these necessarily but many people are not aware of these auditions as they are not as publicized by the colleges.</p>
<p>I was told that representatives from certain college programs travel to PA schools like Interlochen to audition the kids…the auditions are taped, I believe, and brought back to the school. I only heard of it being done at Interlochen, but I assume it probably happens at others? I could be wrong. Again, I have no personal knowledge of this…was told by another mother that it happens. But I can understand why…many (most?) of these kids are at boarding school, with parents living far away…it would be difficult to coordinate the audition schedule for these children due to the fact that they are, in some cases, thousands of miles from their home. </p>
<p>The bottom line is that I don’t think any of these students have an unfair advantage. The schools are going to take who they think are most talented, regardless of where they see them. The one thing that sticks in my craw about all of this is the fact that some students , some of whom are undoubtedly incredibly talented, cannot afford to fly to many, many schools for auditions. Some of these schools will look at videos, but that really isn’t the same. I don’t know what the answer is, but as technology improves, perhaps schools will allow some type of live video auditioning (Like Skype, but better) for students who simply cannot afford to travel. After all, it would be to everyone’s advantage…the schools get to see a wider array of kids, and the kids who can’t afford to audition at their dream school will be seen by that school.</p>
<p>I agree that it makes sense for colleges to travel to a boarding school for the arts, like Interlochen, as I imagine it is hard for those kids to get to all the auditions when their parents don’t live in the same state as they do. I did not know about this but again, don’t think this is unfair. </p>
<p>I’m not saying that the private auditions through a private coach are unfair either, because again, colleges will accept the talent they are seeking, no matter where they find it. I am a bit surprised that colleges would arrange auditions through a private coach, due to appearances, which is not the same as arranging private auditions at an arts school.</p>
<p>As I wrote in another post, as a private independent college counselor, it is considered inappropriate for those in my profession to contact admissions personnel on our advisees’ behalf. We advise them behind the scenes, so to speak.</p>
<p>Schools are going to look for talent where they have a history of finding talent, such as places like Interlochen and some performing arts high schools and training camps. When it begins to look like a private coach is the first stop to increased odds of getting into a particular program it gets a little sticky. Sure, she knows exactly what each school is looking for, that’s her job. She advertises access and insider information. That’s what people are buying. Her job is to help students get in, after all. If it wasn’t helping she would not have a business.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with that, until you get into state schools vs. private schools, training vs. coaching vs. connected coaching, programs giving perks to one coach and not another, and why the heck schools supposedly looking for talent would be so easily swayed by the right audition dress. You don’t get more talent by hiring a coach. You do get more preparation and that’s a good idea, for sure. But schools are supposed to teach, so at some point it does become a question of how much you are expected to learn before you are properly qualified to be competitive for entrance.</p>
<p>The argument that schools are stopping by the private coach auditions because they are already in the area makes no sense to me whatsoever since if they are already in the area the kids can easily go to them.</p>