Mary Washington is a great public school in Virginia but generally would not be a top choice for top students in Virginia. W & M, UVA, Virginia Tech (especially for engineering) might be better choices for a 1550 SAT type kid . And if you have good instate options where you are, or can get merit elsewhere , the top Virginia schools could end up more expensive (no or limited merit aid). Good luck!
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I hope you come back and update us on your son’s journey. I am not an expert on the California schools either, but FWIW, I have have a close relative who has a PHd in physics from Berkeley. He is currently a researcher at one of the other UCs - he has his own lab and is well known in his field. When my son was toying with the idea of going out to California he told us to look at Cal Poly SLO and at the Claremont Colleges (Harvey Mudd and Pomona) rather than the UCs. He has a couple of post docs who went to Harvey Mudd and raves about how brilliant they are. I see that @AustenNut mentioned both Mudd and Pomona upthread as great academic fits with warm weather and Frisbee. They also show up repeatedly on the list of Apker winners that @merc81 linked. Certainly worth researching those places more. They may make more sense for your son than some of the other reaches on your list.
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As OP was mentioning the desire to find more “safety” schools that would be smaller, I mentioned Mary Washington, Truman State, Missouri S&T, and Alabama-Huntsville again. But these were the schools I had mentioned that OP may want to give greater thought to that had all been in the Top 25 for ultimate frisbee.
There are many ways to look at schools. One way that I like to learn more about the strength of a department is to see how many students successfully go from an undergrad institution and then earn a PhD, in this case, in physics. Having a high (or low) ratio doesn’t mean that a school should be eliminated (or included) just based on that one factor, but it’s a data point I find useful, particularly when trying to find schools with likelier admissions.
I have gone ahead and done the ratios for all the schools that OP listed as well as those that I suggested (the ones I suggested are in bold in the chart). The ratio is the number of physics PhDs earned between 2000-2018 (the latest dates available in the data set) divided by the number of undergrads currently enrolled. The higher the ratio, the greater the proportion of students who went on to earn PhDs in the field.
| School | # of Undergrads | # of Physics PhDs | Ratio |
|---|---|---|---|
| Harvey Mudd | 922 | 148 | 0.1605 |
| MIT | 4,657 | 455 | 0.0977 |
| Princeton | 5,604 | 207 | 0.0369 |
| U. of Chicago | 7,595 | 200 | 0.0263 |
| Rice | 4,494 | 118 | 0.0263 |
| Case Western | 6,017 | 116 | 0.0193 |
| Pomona | 1,716 | 30 | 0.0175 |
| Berkeley | 32,479 | 498 | 0.0153 |
| William & Mary | 6,797 | 104 | 0.0153 |
| Truman State | 3,622 | 39 | 0.0108 |
| Duke | 6,640 | 66 | 0.0099 |
| Missouri S&T | 5,498 | 54 | 0.0098 |
| Washington U. | 8,132 | 77 | 0.0095 |
| Georgia Tech | 18,415 | 145 | 0.0079 |
| Hamilton | 2,072 | 15 | 0.0072 |
| U. of Mary Washington | 3,493 | 21 | 0.0060 |
| Arizona | 38,751 | 211 | 0.0054 |
| U. of Maryland | 30,353 | 149 | 0.0049 |
| Alabama-Huntsville | 7,169 | 35 | 0.0049 |
| Wake Forest | 5,447 | 25 | 0.0046 |
| CU Boulder | 31,034 | 139 | 0.0045 |
| Cal Poly -SLO | 21,026 | 52 | 0.0025 |
| U. of Southern California | 20,699 | 50 | 0.0024 |
| Miami (OH) | 19,107 | 33 | 0.0017 |
| Colorado State | 25,777 | 39 | 0.0015 |
Personally, if I was looking for an extremely likely school that was on the smaller side, I would start in Missouri (S&T or Truman State), but perhaps OP has an aversion to Missouri, I don’t know.
For people who are interested in seeing how the ratios look when comparing for alums who go on for a doctorate in any field, here is that same list, in order from highest to lowest. Again, this is not an indication that a doctorate is a must-have, and many fields rarely have people going on for a doctorate. But it might provide some additional context.
| School | # of Undergrads | # of Doctorates | Doctorate Ratio |
|---|---|---|---|
| Harvey Mudd | 922 | 802 | 0.870 |
| MIT | 4,657 | 3,996 | 0.858 |
| Pomona | 1,716 | 968 | 0.564 |
| Princeton | 5,604 | 3,016 | 0.538 |
| Duke | 6,640 | 2,741 | 0.413 |
| Rice | 4,494 | 1,747 | 0.389 |
| U. of Chicago | 7,595 | 2,880 | 0.379 |
| William & Mary | 6,797 | 2,159 | 0.318 |
| Truman State | 3,622 | 1,019 | 0.281 |
| Berkeley | 32,479 | 9,019 | 0.278 |
| Washington U. | 8,132 | 2,104 | 0.259 |
| Hamilton | 2,072 | 524 | 0.253 |
| Case Western | 6,017 | 1,405 | 0.234 |
| Wake Forest | 5,447 | 982 | 0.180 |
| U. of Mary Washington | 3,493 | 489 | 0.140 |
| Georgia Tech | 18,415 | 2,176 | 0.118 |
| U. of Maryland | 30,353 | 3,444 | 0.113 |
| Missouri S&T | 5,498 | 623 | 0.113 |
| CU Boulder | 31,034 | 2,822 | 0.091 |
| Miami (OH) | 19,107 | 1,718 | 0.090 |
| Arizona | 38,751 | 3,127 | 0.081 |
| U. of Southern California | 20,699 | 1,556 | 0.075 |
| Colorado State | 25,777 | 1,771 | 0.069 |
| Cal Poly -SLO | 21,026 | 1,168 | 0.056 |
| Alabama-Huntsville | 7,169 | 312 | 0.044 |
Even if U. of Mary Washington is a not a top choice for high-performing Virginia residents, it would be an extremely likely admit, unlike William & Mary, UVA, or Virginia Tech. And I have to say as a resident of a state with a very different educational landscape, I would be thrilled to have U. of Mary Washington be an in-state option for my kid. It seems more like a lovely primrose, while the excellent Big 3 Virginia publics are more like showy roses. But a primrose, when viewed for what it is, is still quite lovely.
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Mary Washington is a great school, with a very nice campus, that’s for sure. Small OOS population.
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I just love your posts. You’re truly a CC gem.
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Interesting footnote to the two 2013 Apker winners:
The American Physical Society presents the annual award worth $5,000 to two students: one from a Ph.D.-granting institution and another from a non-Ph.D. granting institution. The society will recognize Shi’s undergraduate research from RIT’s non-Ph.D. granting program, and the work of Guy Geyer Marcus, the recipient from Wesleyan University’s Ph.D. granting program,
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Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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Yes, both Wesleyan’s winning years (2009 and 2012) were against much bigger universities:
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Very impressive. Wesleyan is certainly punching above its weight so to speak. I wish my son had considered it. Im originally from Connecticut. My kids have been raised in the South and never would have survived February in New England.
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Well you literally can’t beat UNC Chapel Hill for Ultimate. I know a mom of one of the men’s Ultimate team. Seems like a really great group and a great group of parents too.
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