My daughter is torn between these 3 neuroscience programs. Her ultimate goal is to attend medical school. I hear it is a popular major right now but she has a genuine interest in this field.
All three schools will be OOS for us with Pitt providing no merit aid. (We are from MD) Pitt has the longest running neuroscience program of the 3 and I believe and highest rank of the 3. Is it worth it to pay full tuition for this program when the other 2 is offering some merit?
We attended a neuroscience open house at OSU this weekend and they reported that 80% of their neuro student go to medical school. That is pretty impressive stats but I donāt know how that compares to Pitt and IU. Any insight on the 3 programs for neuroscience?
all 3 will get you to med school if thatās remains the goal. Pitt is always considered an awesome place for pre-med and would be my choice but only if the $ is equal, or if you just really love that urban vibe that Pittās campus is known for.
No doubt if you do well at IU or OSU you can get into med school. so if you prefer a greener and quieter campus (neither is quiet, though), go for one of those. Or if you love the sports-crazy rah-rah vibe at OSU, pick that one.
you will have smart kids surrounding you at all 3, but more of them, I think, at OSU and Pitt which are some what harder to get into.
you havenāt told us the price difference and how easy or hard it is for you to pay it for Pitt, though. None of these is worth so much more than the others if there is not a clear favorite in your eyes.
Thank you for your response. Yes, Pitt will be significantly more at 56K per year, OSU at 40K per year and IU at 48K after taking into account merit at OSU and IU. I didnāt mention that she also was accepted to Virginia Tech as well which would be 55 K per year but if we stacked it up against Pitt for 1 K more then we would choose Pitt.
My daughter is a good student with a 3.9 GPA and 4.5 weighted, 1360 SAT and will have 7 APs at graduation (5 of them taken senior year) so not super high stats but I think pretty respectable.
She was invited to Scholars at OSU and Honors at IU.
Pitt did not accept her into their honors program but thats probably bc she did not have enough APs or high enough SAT score.
As for cost, yes we can afford Pitt but it will require some concessions and budgeting. But we also donāt want to discount the additional opportunites. Given these opportunities at OSU and IU would Pitts Neuroscience program alone still hold enough weight?
Can you pay for 4 years of full tuition with no debt? Thatās the first question. IF you can- happy days! If not then the question is āis it worth itā?
Rank wonāt matter for med school apps- all 3 are entirely credible programs, and all 3 will have more opportunities than she will ever be able to take advantage of. What is more likely to make a difference is the fit between the student and the school.
I call this an āasteriskā statistic- the kind of stat that is so unlikely that you need to look for the asterisk. So break it down:
ā the requirement to declare a neuro major is to complete 2 specific classes with a B or better, and have a 3.0 GPA.
ā Per OSUās website, between 15% and 30% of neuro students have a GPA of 3.8 or higher; between 40 and 80% have a GPA of 3.5 or higher (they donāt break out science v non-science GPA, which matters in med school apps, but with lower than a 3.5 in either and med school probably isnāt happening).
ā There are currently 475 āpre-majorsā (typically first year students +some second years), and 564 āmajorsā (mostly years 2,3 + 4).
ā In 2020 OSU graduated 273 Neuro majors (up from 50 in 2014!). I couldnāt find the number for 2019, but it is reasonable to suppose that it was comfortably over 200. In 2019 only 8 students applied to med school, 6 to grad school and 4 to other health care programs.
So Iām guessing that the asterisk is: *of the neuro students who apply to med school with our blessing, with advising used to steer students
Note that I am NOT dissing the program at all!! Just trying to provide ear plugs to stem the siren call of āif I go there I have an 80% chance of getting into med schoolā.
That is a very good point and thank you for pointing that out. You are correct, the question I should be asking is how many students typically apply to medical school for the number that graduates in a given year. I will follow up with the programs and find that information out as well.
Do that if it makes you feel betterā¦but I donāt think itās an especially helpful metric. Has your daughter visited all of them? has she looked at the 4 year plan for each of them? does she have a particular area of neuro that is interesting to her, and has she looked at that area at each of the 3?
And mostly: does she have a gut sense that one of them feels more like her place? As hard as it is to believe, over the years I have learned to respect a studentās visceral response- especially when you are down to the hair-splitting level of decision makingā¦which you are, and she is.
Make your own decision as to whether you are willing to write the checks for the most expensive one, and then let her straight up choose from the options that are acceptable to you. Help her learn to trust herself by trusting her. She has done a great job getting to the point where she has these great choices- let her make the jump to the next level.
I would spend some time to understand what advantages she would have as part of the honors/scholars programs. At some large colleges there could be meaningful benefits.
Yes we have visited all of the schools but need to dig deeper in understanding the differences between each of the neuroscience programs. Pitt is her #1 (obviously as the parent, cost is a factor). OSU is now her #2 as she got to really get an inside look this pass weekend at the neuro program specficially talking to advisors and neuro students. IU # 3 as they have a very large Cognitive and Brain neuroscience program as well. . Thank you for all your suggestions, next step is to discuss with my duaghter which part of neuroscience is she most interested in and take a look at the gen ed requirements vs neuro requirements for graduation. A very good suggestion. This is our first child going through this process and without all you experienced parents guiding us first timers along, we would be lost.
We donāt you ask Pitt and IU ? I would assume that not everyone wants to go to med school so that might impact the stat.
Iām sure all three are fine. Pitt is urban. OSU is, to me, not urban but just several miles from downtown Columbus. Itās sprawling. IU is a happy medium.
From Maryland to Pittsburgh is drivable. To Columbus, it depends on your tolerance. Whatās too long ? To Indiana, likely have to fly.
You could look at several factors.
Cost - what can you afford ? You said all but at Pitt youād have to make concessions. Why should you have to ?
Environment - all three are different.
Outcomes - this matters. If she doesnāt go to med school then what ?
Enrichment / Honors ? Why does it matter to you ? Everyone wants Honors because they think it sounds better or you are a top student but what does each offer that she wants ? Check into it. And btw Pitt - regular students can take Honors classes so to me not having Pitt Honors would not be a deal breaker at all unless itās some of the other things they offer. Also see if Honors has a charge. At some schools it does.
I ask these questions about Honors because everyone wants on but you read about a high % never using it. Thatās my son. He had the nicer dorm. Early registration. Is not completing Honors. Other than those two things it was useless for him. And many others. Each honors is created differently. My daughter uses hers. But at Pitt since you can still take the classes that might pacify your daughter. So look into what you actually get at each school and does it align with her interests.
Access to home if that matters
And more. All are likely solid choices. Iād eliminate Pitt. College costs more than they say. Why should you be inconvenienced? That said, if access to shadowing etc is easier or she loves urban, then you might decide to make that happen.
If med school is the goal, I heard to select the most economical undergrad school and focus on getting good grades and on extracurriculars.
What are the advantages to the honors colleges/Scholars at OSU and IU?
Ask your daughter if she can picture herself at OSU or at IU. How does she feel? If she still likes Pitt and itās affordable to you, then I will go for Pitt. Happiness is another part of the equation. If theyāre not happy on campus, it may affect their grades, outlook, etcā¦
OSU is the cheapest school for you and a very good school. Most people knock it for itās hugeness, but Scholars seems like a great way to make it smaller and to get good advising and make faculty connections. I think the big difference between Scholars and Honors is that Scholars adds service requirements and out-of-the-classroom experiences, vs the additional academic requirements and opportunities that Honors brings. Frankly, when my daughter applied to OSU, we encouraged her to select Scholars over Honors.
Whether Pitt is worth the extra $ is up to you. I would say it isnāt for the academics or the pre-med opportunities- they are good but not vastly different from OSU (or IU). but it might be worth it if your kid loves it there and thinks she will be happiest there.
I am sure IU is fine for the sciences and pre-med as well, but when I hear IU those are not immediately the things that come to mind.
Only incoming freshman at OSU are able to participate in scholars. There are 16 programs with different themes. Students are housed together by their scholar program and take a course from their scholars advisor. My D did scholars and enjoyed having that close knit peer group which was a great way to start her social network there. Her scholar advisor was also an excellent resource in becoming connected to opportunities on and off campus. Students can join honors later if they want to pursue that after their first semester.
It just happened that I have one friendās DD in neuroscience now at Pitt and another at OSU as premeds and mine is interested in psychology or neuroscience as premed. We are all from MD .
I know only what was told to me, so all is subjective.
Both girls work very hard and are extremely challenged. There is no guarantee that they will make it to med school.
The one in Pitt wanted neuroscience not only as premed but possibly as a career and my understanding is may be a bit happier (she is probably a bit stronger student based on her stats too). The one in OSU chose neuroscience only because it allowed her access early to premed classes registration and choosing teachers for her classes. She hates her neuroscience classes now and canāt wait to drop her major but she is the one who absolutely wants to go to medical schoolā¦She still loves OSU and is happy there. Both girls did not want to go to UMD. Both chose another school due to hospitals on campus and their other personal criteria. The Pitt girl was working in a hospital but stopped for now because it was close to impossible to do well in school and work at a hospital. The OSU girl was studying around the clock and slept very little.
Given all of the above we did not consider for my DD neither Pitt nor OSU or any other big school (she is accepted to UMD into Honors ISL with a scholarship, but will not go there.) I want my daughter to arrive at medical school with enough energy and not broken in BS by competition. Because of that, we are considering smaller LACs. Everyone has a different approach. There are no right or wrong paths. Pick a school that will not break your bank and would make your child happy.
One thing from conversations with mom I learned is that in OSU in Chem classes (I hope I remember correctly) you need to hand copy some books or notes as part of homework. It is part of the requirementā¦ That is one of the reasons a poor girl could not sleep enough at OSU. To me, that is very strangeā¦I know that my kids will not tolerate something like that and I personally do not support such a method of education.
pre-med requirements have become insane. itās very difficult to get it all done in 4 years with the required volunteer hours, shadowing, and research, especially if you have other interests and want a social life and time to work out or whatever. itās ridiculous and I feel bad for pre-med kids.
The nuances and/or rankings of the different neuroscience programs donāt matter at all here (except perhaps the average GPA if they offer that info). She should choose the school based on other factors.
Pretty much any school can prep a student well for medical school. She should go where sheāll be happy and will excel at her studies, and get the extracurriculars she needs for med school.
She also needs a clear plan B, as all premeds do. Make sure that the plan B is easily do-able at the school she chooses.
I know this isnāt your question, but @momsearcheng mentioned it aboveā¦ If my kid was premed, Iād encourage them to attend a LAC.
Thank you! My daughter has her heart set on Pitt. I think it would have been the no brainer if it wasenāt for cost. As for travel time Pitt and OSU does make the most sense. As far as the importance of honors or scholars I think the best advantage to those programs is coming into a large school and already having a community you belong to. The advantage of early registration is a plus and opportunities to clinical/research experience is what we are hoping for. What is hard to predict is the level of advising the students receive as well. That is also important to her when making a decison.
Yes, thank you! She had a great visit with the neuroscience department over the weekend at OSU and has opened her mind to that opportunity. We had never visited Ohio before and was amazed at their medical campus which I think rivals Pitts opportunities as well. It was a pleasant surprise as we almost cancelled our trip having little knowledge of OSU. Boy, were we glad we visited!!
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