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<p>That happens, but you have to understand that, for most people, financial aid that makes a 4-year university cheaper in cost than a community college simply doesn’t happen. The bulk of financial aid comes in the forms of loans as opposed to grants, and surely you can imagine how most kids simply aren’t in that situation.</p>
<p>as high school graduate - without a college degree - and a parent i’m encouraging both my kids to get the degree - sure you can make tons of money as a union plumber but at some point, the education - i mean the learning part - is priceless. I’ve never studied the classics, i’ve never really learned economics but i can balance a checkbook and i’ve made a pretty good living but it’s been work, work, work. To be educated is it’s own reward. i’d rather raise the best education flight attendant in the cabin or the best educated plumber that i possibly can afford.</p>
<p>^But is education really limited to the classroom? Sometimes I wonder if a library card and a dedicated time slot would result in more “education” than a random course.</p>
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<p>Nothing is stopping a person to learn. You don’t need to go to college to be educated. There is the internet, books, and other sources. A majority of people don’t go to college to learn anyways. We are sold on the idea that it leads to a more successful career and that is it. We have it implanted in our minds since we are a child that you have to go to college in order to successful. So guess what a majority of kids do? Go to college. </p>
<p>It is funny. A majority of students would rather prefer a professor who doesn’t teach and gives out easy A’s over a professor who actually teaches and challenges the students. They actually hate on professor who challenges them. Very few students actually want to learn. That is the ugly truth of it.</p>
<p>EricLG wrote: “BI, how do you define ‘upper-middle’ class ?”</p>
<p>Is this a personal or theoretical question? Are you looking for a specific salary, or a demographic of the ‘typical’ family. I don’t have either. These are the families that can not comfortably write a check for $50k/yr tuition and yet have an EFC high enough to warrant no financial aid sans loans.
Just because your EFC is high, and you will have difficulty meeting that amount, DOES NOT mean that you have been spending your money on new SUVs each year, vacation homes, or failing to plan for college expenses. My post was to highlight those families that were not anticipating financial aid, tried to plan with good faith, however a major crash in the economy changed the game for those in the ‘donut hole’. The ultra wealthy can still write that check, the people who were planning on financial aid are quite possibly getting more if their finances are in worse shape (like most Americans). Those in the donut hole are still getting no aid, can’t write their own check, and their personal finances are quite often much different than they though they would be when they were sending kids to school. They will be thinking more about the educational opportunities and the value they give to each student.</p>
<p>Everyone is giving good points here and there but what everyone is failing to realize is that all these points are based off of a very general theme. The theme is that students in high school need to mature enough by the time they leave high school and they also need to research a lot about different potential careers by the time they leave high school (this would come as a result of maturing). Whatever decisions they make at this time may be the right & final choice or it may not but they need to have goals and a general direction.</p>
<p>Most kids in college don’t have a general direction. For the first time I glanced left and see that you are still a student, and an engineering one, so you don’t understand this yet. Expect to see many you know experience a crisis when they find out that most engineering jobs are rote.</p>
<p>I do know this which is why I made that point. I know of too many students who switch majors multiple times and it’s a shame really. And quite frankly, from knowing them, it’s simply because they refuse to mature as well as take their lives seriously enough to bother spending time to research various interests.</p>
<p>I kind of find it insulting that you would say those things about me as if I’m just young and naive and will just learn in time as if I haven’t already.</p>
<p>BI said “These are the families that can not comfortably write a check for $50k/yr tuition and yet have an EFC high enough to warrant no financial aid sans loans.” in answer to what defines an upper-middle class family.</p>
<p>“Comfortable check writing.” All right then.</p>
<p>^ EricLG As the internet has the flaw of losing a lot in translation, I don’t know if you are mocking my answer by simply pulling out one sentence.<br>
I started by saying I didn’t have a specific answer related to a salary or profile. From there I tried to elaborate. My answer was pretty comprehensive within the context of my original post.</p>
<p>It is the least important issue in my OP. It simply related to a commonly used term for a group of society. Not that it matters in the least to the OP, but how do YOU define upper middle class as it related to this topic?</p>
<p>Engineer, don’t feel sorry for those switching majors. Many are showing maturity by doing so. Who really knows for sure at 18 what they want to be? It’s only a few crazy state schools asking applicants to choose majors. Many choose engineering, accounting or pre med because parents tell them they are secure.</p>
<p>They get to college, get more exposure and understand they have options they prefer.</p>
<p>No insult meant, you just haven’t lived long enough to have had a front row seat for where life goes post college.</p>
<p>^Redroses- I would agree that there are many schools where you don’t choose you major until your sophomore year. This is a great option for many, many students. There are however, a number of students, however small, that do know what they want to study and actually stick with it… and it’s driven by the student.</p>
<p>We go back the original point. ALL options of education should be evaluated for students based on their interests, needs, maturity level, and the families ability to finance the education.</p>
<p>One I don’t remember being brought up is the Armed Services. It may not be your cup of tea, but for a young man, or woman, who has the desire to succeed, but no real direction, without funds for school, this may be an option to look into. At some point, should you choose the military will pay YOU to go to school and earn your degree!</p>
<p>The situations you are mentioning still exemplify students who are not mature enough to handle things on their own and make their own decisions, which defies the “theme” I mentioned. Therefore, if due to their lack of effort in taking life seriously they are still switching majors as a junior, I have nothing to feel but sorrow and pity for their arrogance. By 18, students can easily, yes I did say easily, figure out what types of jobs are suitable to them and fit their personality through simple research.</p>
<p>“By 18, students can easily, yes I did say easily, figure out what types of jobs are suitable to them and fit their personality through simple research.”</p>
<p>Spoken like a true 18 year old.</p>
<p>^ Spoken like a true intellectual. Please don’t take guesses at who I am. Your comment is analogous to name calling, a form of communication typically taken up when the speaker has run out of legitimate points. Would you care to turn that remark into a legitimate point? If not, keep them to yourself. Your post is COMPLETELY useless, not to mention meaningless - do you have a problem? What’s your deal.</p>
<p>Right, I as a parent definitely want my kids to take their time and figure out what will make them happy. They can change majors all they want. Decide on grad school after working several years. I don’t think most 18 year olds have a clue yet, including the very high achieving ones I see at my kids’ top 10 colleges.</p>
<p>Well you thought right. It’s ironic that you respond as if it’s a rebut, when really, the more you speak the more you’re simply backing up my point. Some high achieving students don’t yet have a clue, yes, but of the high achieving students I know, most of them do, so I disagree with that.</p>
<p>You and your friends are just clearly much more special than my children’s cohorts:)</p>
<p>No one knows what they want to do at 18. Suggesting otherwise goes in the face of simple common sense.</p>
<p>It’s difficult if not downright impossible to be exposed to the variety of fields available by age 18. If you’re rich or have connections, then sure, you may have a strong idea. But most kids don’t, and the vast majority of high school subjects have nothing to do with real-world careers.</p>