<p>Oh I’m sorry abortion wasn’t referenced in this video at all. I thought the video was about Planned Parenthood, the largest provider of abortions. I’m sorry I missed that. Oh actually that number is actually about $363 million tax payer dollars out of the $1.1 billion budget, not the $75 million referenced in the video. </p>
<p>I guarantee you, not one of these people in the video have ever set foot in a Planned Parenthood clinic, nor know the name Margaret Sanger. Ignorance is bliss after all. You see, you probably never analyzed the direct correlation with the increase of federal funds to Planned Parenthood = increase of abortions. </p>
<p>If Planned Parenthood is so good at preventing unwanted pregnancies then why is it that in 1984, 5% of all abortions took place in PP, but then recently over 27% of ALL abortions take place in PP? Why? Because it is a failed program. How come in 2009, PP committed 320,000+ abortions, yet only swayed about 2,000 to adoption? Are they giving the expected mother ALL her options? Are they telling her the RISKS of abortion? No. Please, research the facts before giving me utter nonsense. I don’t care for your morals, I just want facts, and the facts prove to me that PP’s primary source of income is abortions. </p>
<p>Why is it that PP is so secretive? Would you like YOUR 13 year old to walk in a PP and receive injections/abortions with you knowing? Oh I forgot 13 years old have sex and it’s normal today in your eyes because they have a choice. Hahahaha. Why does PP not contact the parents if their 13 year old daughter is about to have an abortion? Are you in favor of that? Because you seem to be that kind of ignorant person who looks over the facts. </p>
<p>My determination to see PP collapse does not stem from my dislike of Margaret Sanger, it is their secretive policies, blatant lies, and failed programs that make me cringe.</p>
<p>^^[THREADMAKER’S NOTE:] The $75 million figure refers to what Planned Parenthood receives each year under Title X, a program implemented under Republican President Richard Nixon in 1970 to provide contraceptives, cancer screenings, and pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease testing at community health centers across the country. The balance of the money or, approximately $293 million, are Medicare funds administered by Planned Parenthood, which apparently Smushed would like cut also.</p>
<p>Here we go, blatant disregard for the information I presented. I see you like selective hearing. Well I won’t bother you if you have nothing else to say. I feel you think PP is perfect and has no flaws, please tell me this isn’t so.</p>
<p>Oh I’m glad the 75 million figure referred in the video talked about Title X. Clearly, the video says Planned Parenthood COSTS 75 million. Funny you mention Title X, because Congress appropriated 317 million dollars in FY2010. Ouch. You’re making a mockery out of yourself. How is that working out? Look at my figures from my other post. </p>
<p>To get this thread back on topic, I think it is great that Wes students put their talents to work and produced a video that reflects THEIR political viewpoint. Kudos to them, and it’s nice they were recognized for their video. This forum is not supposed to be to discuss politics or religion, so let’s follow the rules, folks.</p>
<p>Calgal if that was the case then this entire thread should be locked because according to you it violates rules about discussing politics and religion. You even said yourself “THEIR political viewpoint.” </p>
<p>Why the double standard? How about you follow the rules? Selective hearing again I see and once again no reply from either the original threadmaker or D’yer maker.</p>
<p>D’yer, I liked your answer. It’s astonishing how unpleasant self-righteousness can make people, not to mention the inaccuracy of rage. A la Senator Kyl: when facts won’t do, just make something up, and then pretend that truth is optional.</p>
<p>Tick-tock, tick-tock… I’m waiting on Smushed’s reply to my questions. I saw lots of reaction, but no answers.</p>
<p>Well, I’m not really waiting, Smushed, largely because I visit this forum to learn more about the admission process and get a sense of things on campus…for a college search that is coming to its end.</p>
<p>And that’s the main reason I’m not looking for more engagement on an argument where there is almost zero chance of anyone persuading any other participant to change their mind. Nobody’s going to change your mind, Smushed. I think that’s clear. And I can save you the trouble of trying further to change mine because I can see you’re not coming here from a position where you’re apt to be persuasive to me. As for the rest of the opinions that might be swayed…there’s very little fertile ground here. Remember, the non-participants and myriad lurkers who may happen upon this thread aren’t here to learn about Planned Parenthood funding or debate the federal budget. Most of them are visiting here for the same reason I’m visiting here: to learn about Wesleyan. </p>
<p>That’s why calgal nailed it. The reason this is noteworthy and worth calling attention to here is that it demonstrates what Wes students can do when motivated. They’ve delivered a powerful message – a fact that’s best demonstrated by the backlash even more than the applause.</p>
<p>It’s an advocacy piece. It was created because there is disagreement and some students wanted to advocate. If one strips it of the ultra hot-button sensitivities it tackles – imagining, instead, that it was about vegan diets or NPR funding or baby beluga whales – it shows what Wes students can do. So, even if these particular students used it for the Dark Side in this instance, it still testifies that the Force is strong in Wes students. The debate or conversation about whether this represents the Dark Side or not…well, I think, that’s best taken to one of the Cafe forums where people actually care.</p>
<p>Hmm. Maybe you should follow your own advice, instead of replying to me with six paragraphs and then switching your character from hero to innocent bystander. Don’t give me a speech about why PP is necessary and then come back with this.</p>
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<p>Please follow your own advice. I do applaud Wes students, that is why I visited this forum because I was interested in what Wesleyan had to offer, but the hypocrisy that permeates through the frequent posters is ridiculous. Am I obligated to type a message of praise and reverence to this video? What is wrong with my critique? Was my reaction directed towards YOUR six paragraph reply? I’m not going to continue this any further, unless you reply with one of those white knight replies you’ve utilized in the past. I’ll leave on this happy note, I admire the Wesleyan students in this video for boldness and originality, but the video did not settle well.</p>
<p>You’ve also mischaracterized my first post here as giving you “a speech about why PP is necessary” when I actually wrote “If you think these services shouldn’t come from an organization that also provides abortion services and wasn’t founded by Margaret Sanger, that’s fine. I’m just interested in finding out where those services will come from if Congress shaves off that $75 million.” (I personally don’t care about Planned Parenthood and never said I did. It’s the continued delivery of the services that matter. And you’re still flapping in the breeze with no answer as to how the de-funded services will be delivered in the absence of PP.)</p>
<p>But you stray further off the deep-end because you expressly invited me to reply to you, suggesting that my not doing so implied that your points are cogent. (Seeing as you made no attempt to answer any of the questions I raised, I saw no reason to reply to your moving target arguments.) But now, after pouting that I hadn’t replied, you’re babbling about heroes, innocent bystanders and white knights (what the…?), saying I shouldn’t have replied to you or pointed out that calgal had the wisest approach (which, happily, you’re now embracing).</p>
<p>So, yes, I agree that it is best to cut bait…especially when your chief persuasive tool here is to threaten people with more of you if they respond.</p>
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<p>So, before throwing down claims of “hypocrisy” and coming up with contorted “follow your own advice” statements only to the extent they suit you and relieve you from responding to valid points, do consider that you’re the biggest kettle here.</p>
<p>(Was that a “hero,” “innocent bystander,” or “white knight” reply?)</p>
<p>As threadmaker, I’m going to take advantage of D’yer Maker’s cover fire and merely point out that I did reply to Smushed, at both posts#20 and #22. I didn’t have to; as others have pointed out, I don’t think anything posted here is going to change anyone’s mind. The purpose of the thread was to illustrate the overall level of political engagement at Wesleyan, not necessarily to take sides. For the record, I’ve never been inside a Planned Parenthood clinic. Then again, I’ve never been to the Grand Canyon either, but I still support the National Park Service.</p>
<p>Well I actually did misquote, that was my bad. My copy and paste didn’t feel like working and apparently neither did my mind at the time. I’m wrong to think I can even persuade you even just a nudge. You have your view of being pro-abortion, and I have mine. I find it funny that no one tries to rescind their wrong information, even when proper proof was provided. Well, I was wrong to come to this thread in this first place, it’s just whenever I see something wrong, and people have endless praise for it, I decide to put in my few cents.</p>
<p>I can definitely see the multiple similarities between the National Park Service and an abortion clinic. Good comparison. You reduce abortion to a national park. I applaud you. How could you? Then again you were misinformed about the Title X Program, so there goes your credibility (out the window).</p>
<p>While I’m here I might as well reply to the “de-funded services”
I’ve explained in the past that I am anti-abortion, so there goes one service. I’ll just re-quote myself.</p>
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<p>I have also mentioned minors walking into a PP and having an abortion/medicine/etc without parental consent. What are your opinions about that? Why is PP so secretive? Are they targeting minors and minorities? If an organization is corrupt from the the creation with Margaret Sanger till today, why am I still paying for those very services? These questions go unanswered, because pro-abortionists like yourself see only one side. I’m not claiming to see both sides, but I see the faults in my argument, yet no pro-abortionist here has rescinded any of their false claims even though I have supplied ample evidence.</p>
<p>This Wesleyan international admit knows who Margaret Sanger is and her views about racial purification, however irrelevant that might be. This information isn’t exactly classified. Don’t summarily assume those who disagree with you are ignorant. But that’s not the point of this thread, so let’s take the politics elsewhere, shall we?</p>
<p>Smushed, if you’re really worked up about Title X funds, you’ll have to give me a cite; that $317M figure seems pulled out of your pants pocket.</p>
<p>Haha. You’re questioning my sources when you pulled that 75 million figure out of your pocket? You tried to outwit me and give me bogus figures. Shame on you. You have no credibility in my eyes. </p>
<p>Funding History
Fiscal Year<br>
Total Funds Appropriated
2010 317,491,000
2009 307,491,000
2008 299,981,000
2007 283,146,000
2006 283,103,000 </p>
<p>Talk is cheap. Where’s your evidence? Oh, you have none. John Wesley you are quite the hypocrite. You’re claiming I pulled $317 million out of my pocket. Maybe you shouldn’t pull your sources from YouTube videos.</p>
<p>Um, those are the figures for the ENTIRE Federal Government Title X budget. Are you really arguing that Planned Parenthood receives every federal dollar spent on STD testing, every federal dollar spent on contraceptives and cancer screening? I don’t think you’re that stupid. I think you’re just being a ■■■■■.</p>
<p>In any event, time to step away from the thread, Mr. Smusher. You’ve had your fun.</p>
<p>“If Planned Parenthood is so good at preventing unwanted pregnancies then why is it that in 1984, 5% of all abortions took place in PP, but then recently over 27% of ALL abortions take place in PP? Why?”</p>
<p>Well, I’ll tell you why, Smushed.</p>
<p>Here it is: Because people who promote your political views about a woman’s right to choose have politicked and sometimes even made physical threats against hospitals and clinics that previously offered abortion services. What hospital wants to take the risk of having a madman lurking around their doors, like madman Scott Roeder, the anti-choice activist who assassinated Dr. George Tiller two years ago because he worked at Planned Parenthood. As a result of this type of pressure, those who support your point of view have been able to scare hospitals from providing this fully-legal service, and Planned Parenthood is often the only place where a woman can turn to get a legal abortion. </p>
<p>Wesleyan students who use their American right of free speech to support Planned Parenthood should be praised for their civic mindedness and courage, and not be attacked. On the other hand, the vitriol that the haters espouse, like the madman anti-choice activist who murdered Dr. George Tiller, should be absolutely condemned. </p>
<p>I am sure you support the US Constitution, and our laws and reject violence.To eliminate Planned Parenthood is to force women needing to terminate a pregnancy to go back to the dark ages of the back alley abortions.</p>
<p>Giving up because you know I was right. I’ll stop here with you because you obviously are too hard of hearing to even consider the ample evidence I’ve supplied. I love how you call me a ■■■■■, that’s when I know you’re done. Case closed with you John. </p>
<p>Morgan, you are highly misinformed. Have you not heard of the flaws of Planned Parenthood? Why don’t you quote my other statistics about minors? No parental knowledge? Are you a selective hearer as well? It seems you pro-abortionists see one side of the story. You complain about the murder of Dr. George Tiller, yet won’t stand up for the murders of innocent babies. Are you also in support of third trimester abortions? When the baby is days away from being born? Why are some pro-abortionists against it? I mean according to your logic, the baby has no life until it’s six inches out of his/her mother. </p>
<p>The hypocrisy in you specifying two or three murders by madmen is laughable. You want to characterize an entire pro-life movement on the actions of a few individuals? Let me guess you also characterize all Muslims as being evil just because of actions from a few select individuals? </p>
<p>Let me ask you, are YOU in support of the US constitution, which rejects violence? Even to those who cannot defend themselves? Violence against babies. Where is the choice of the baby? How come the father has no say in this? Let me give you this for thought.</p>
<p>Why is it if someone killed a pregnant mother, he or she is charged with TWO murders? Think about that. I also love how you assume that eliminating Planned Parenthood would force women to terminate their pregnancy via Dark Ages. Ahaha. Laughable. Let me ask you this, have you ever witnessed an abortion? Do you know the various methods they use? One method is by utilizing a scalpel of some sort, cutting the baby into little bits and pieces, and then using a vacuum to suck the contents out. Yes, it is perfectly legal, would that fall under your Dark Age theory? Before you even mention the Dark Ages, please I dare you to look up the various methods utilized by abortionists. Watch video, look at photos, I mean according to your logic they have no life. They don’t deserve to live, only if the mother lets them. I mean really, those babies are just a “thing” until they are born… Watch it, see if you have any emotion, any emotion at all. </p>
<p>Smusher, I predicted that you would not condemn the murderer of Dr. George Tiller, and that you would continue to attack the Wesleyan students who support Planned Parenthood, and my theory was correct.</p>
<p>And by the way, you are posting on a board for people interested in Wesleyan University. I am here to defend Wesleyan students’ right to exercise their freedom of speech as American citizens. Why are you here??</p>
<p>For your information, my family and I have been patients at Planned Parenthood several times over the last 35 years, and we are very well-informed about their excellent services, kind and sensitive medical personnel and their careful use of funds. Planned Parenthood is a model for low-cost, non-profit community medicine. You know it and I know it. The Wesleyan students also know it and this is the basis for their wonderful campaign to support Planned Parenthood.</p>
<p>Before you bash innocent Wesleyan students or people in the community like me who have benefited from the outstanding work of Planned Parenthood and who also condemn heinous crimes against innocent victims of barbarians like Scott Roeder, I suggest you chill and ask yourself why you feel the need to rant against the rights of your fellow Americans who are merely exercising our freedom of speech under the U.S. Constitution. And while you are in church this morning, please say a prayer for the soul of Dr. George Tiller, a martyr for a woman’s right to choose and a modern American hero.</p>
<p>One other thing: Keep in mind that these attacks against constitutionally-guaranteed women’s reproductive rights only stiffen the resolve of Wesleyan students and alumni. I suggest that you find another audience that might be intimidated more easily.</p>
<p>When did I say I would not condemn the murder of George Tiller? Of course I condone any sort of murder because I AM PRO LIFE. It was tragic that happened, but violence isn’t going to solve violence. You tell me that you have been a proud customer at Planned Parenthood and I feel sorry for you. Are you proud to have been a loyal customer at an abortion clinic? That’s the FIRST time I’ve EVER heard that. </p>
<p>I have NEVER bashed the Wesleyan students. In fact if you read some posts up I actually applauded them for boldness and originality. Don’t make assumptions based off your feeble mind. </p>
<p>Then you go changing the subject and strayed away from the multiple questions I asked you in my post DIRECTED at YOU. Can you answer some of those questions? Please? Or are you going to give me your life story about your experience with Planned Parenthood? Or make up assumptions that I am BASHING Wesleyan students. </p>
<p>I will answer your question. If you actually read some of my posts you’d know why I’m here. I was here because I was interested in what Wesleyan had to offer because many of my friends plan to attend there. I know Wesleyan has many qualified students and I stumbled upon this thread. There you go I answered your question, now answer mine. (You probably won’t, and you’ll probably ramble on about your life experiences and your families proud past with Planned Parenthood).</p>
<p>Answer these questions I have asked you before. </p>
<p>Why is it if someone killed a pregnant mother, he or she is charged with TWO murders?</p>
<p>Are you also in support of third trimester abortions? When the baby is days away from being born? Why are some pro-abortionists against it? I mean according to your logic, the baby has no life until it’s six inches out of his/her mother. </p>
<p>What about minors? No parental consent to have an abortion? Are you in support?</p>
<p>Let me ask you, are YOU in support of the US constitution, which rejects violence? Even to those who cannot defend themselves?</p>
<p>Have you ever witnessed an abortion?</p>
<p>(You won’t answer these questions, but they’re just some food for thought.)</p>