Please Chance/Match Rising Senior

Chance Me / Match Me!
21

Have you run the NPC for UVM? I think that admissions is quite likely. The question is whether you will get a presidential merit scholarship to get the cost below $50k per year out of state. I know someone who was offered this with a similar GPA, but a somewhat better SAT score. I do not know whether the SAT score will matter, but the NPC for UVM does attempt to predict merit aid.

If you can improve your SAT score it might improve your chances at McGill, and move it from a reach to a match.

UNH looks like a good safety to me (particularly since you are in-state). U. Delaware seems like a good school to apply to and looks likely to me.

You might want to run the NPC on Dartmouth, Colby, Cornell, Brown, and Middlebury. You might find that the likely cost of attendance saves you the trouble of applying to most (or all?) of them. The same might be true of some other schools on your list but quite a few of them I do not know at all well.

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22

Thank you for your response. The 50K is a ballpark. Obviously it would be ideal to spend below (all fees combined) but it is not a make or break on my top choice college. My parents said that they would make it work if I was accepted ED, however I donā€™t want to put them in a bad financial position, especially because my brother will be in college in a few years. Iā€™ll look more into schools that offer merit aid. Looking at my stats, do you think I would qualify for merit aid at schools like Conn and St. Lawrence? I had these on my list originally but took them off because my list got too long.

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Iā€™ve run the NPCs for them all on my own but without my parents, and I donā€™t think it was accurate as I donā€™t know all of our assets and passive income, etc. So Iā€™ll run those with them. Iā€™m taking an SAT course over the summer in hopes of raising it but Iā€™m just not an awesome standardized test taker so I may have to apply TO to most of the reaches. Hopefully I can raise it to get more merit aid at certain schools and to move McGill - since itā€™s in Canada, it would be much more affordable and itā€™s only a 4 hour drive from my house.

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A resource for a quick check on a schoolā€™s merit aid is here. If a schoolā€™s information isnā€™t included in this table, then you would want to look that information up in its Common Data Set.

Connecticut College offers merit aid to 46% of students without financial need, averaging $18,331. That brings the COA to approximately $62k. SAT range 1310-1450 with 47% with a GPA of 3.75+.

St. Lawrence offers merit aid to 59% of students without financial need, averaging $19,552. That brings the COA to approximately $56,500. SAT range 1180-1350 and 42% with GPA of 3.75+.

GPA figures are always an iffy game with these stats because schools donā€™t all use the same standard (i.e. unweighted vs. weighted GPAs). That being said, based on your stats, I would say that you would have a good chance of getting merit aid at St. Lawrence. Connecticut College is definitely iffier, but possible.

There is not a single school on your list that would not give you access to a good education. You can go to any of those colleges and launch yourself into strong grad schools or careers. There is, however, a significant different in the price of those schools. It is possible to get a good college education at a range of price points.

Urge your parents to make sure, for their sake AND yours, that whatever budget they decide on is one that they would be able to replicate for your younger brother (otherwise it creates lots of family strife) AND that keeps them on a path to a financially secure retirement. There are no loans or scholarships for individuals who do not have enough money for retirement. So they need to think about what they need to do to remain on track for a financially secure retirement and then figure out the budget that they can do for you and for your brother whether itā€™s $30k, $50k, $60k, etc.

I would urge your family to come up with that budget number first, before running any NFCs. They should be basing that budget decision on their finances and not on the emotional pull of of any particular school and its expected cost. Once they have the budget number, then they should run the NFC for Dartmouth (your ED school). If itā€™s affordable, it remains on the table. If itā€™s not, then it and any other school that canā€™t hit that number should be eliminated.

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I am not quite sure what SAT score is needed for someone from the USA applying to McGill. I do know several people (including me and a daughter and a few others) who got in with SAT scores ranging from 1410 to 1490. We all had GPAs that were pretty close to yours.

Just up the street from McGill is Concordia University, which is also quite good and is a bit easier for admissions. Concordia students can take a few classes at McGill. The only Concordia student who I know who took advantage of this said that the classes were more difficult at McGill. The two universities are close enough that at one point we rented a hotel right between the two and walked to tours at both of them on consecutive days.

The only other English language university in Quebec is Bishopā€™s, which is relatively small and in Lennoxville, which is right next to Sherbrooke. We toured Bishopā€™s and liked it quite a bit. They do have a department of ā€œenvironment and geographyā€. McGill will of course be far better known by employers in the US and McGill is also very good for environmental science. I do not know anything about geography as a major.

My vague recollection is that McGill is likely to be under your budget of US$50k per year, and that Concordia and Bishopā€™s are both likely to be slightly less expensive still (unless you have dual citizenship, in which case they will all cost a LOT less). I have not checked the prices recently however.

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This is what the OP has to answer that I asked above. Geography can be multi disciplinary - and is different at many schools - for some, atmospheric sciences are included. Others include regional.urban planning. At others, itā€™s human - more cultural/people. And then thereā€™s the environmental sort. Plus thereā€™s GIS.

Rather than naming schools for school sake - itā€™s more important to know - whatā€™s the area of interest. At some schools, it may not fall within geography for example.

OP - if you could answer.

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Iā€™m more interested in urban planning and physical geography (maps) and working with computers (GIS). Most geography programs include human geography which is also interesting to me, just less relevant to what I want to do after graduation. Colgate has an environmental geography program that Iā€™m really interested in.

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Colgateā€™s a fine school. Obviously you would go TO.

It will not be $50K - in fact, a huge % of their students - well over half - are full pay - again, no merit there.

The major - most likely wonā€™t be high paid - but I agree it is interesting - and many will get an MPA or MHA or something in GIS.

You might look at a UGA but the test score will hurt - itā€™s mandatory - so itā€™s a reach. Ohio State, Minnesotaā€¦Charleston would be a safety and has a program.

I think in that type program - the larger schools will have it - the Mizzou, Ohio State, Minnesota. Iā€™m not even sure looking at UNH that itā€™s the right school.

Now if Colgate is right or Colby, Cornell, etc. but you need $50K - the trick is finding other schools with a similar program that have merit - so you can afford them. I didnā€™t look at the curriculum but check out those with this major - Ohio U, U of Denver, U of Cincinnati, Michigan State, Slippery Rock, Kutztown.

Itā€™s important you find the curriculum you want at a school you can afford - especially when it will lead to a low paying job, etc.

For GIS, you might look at Arizona (well known for geography and MIS), Alabama and closer to home SUNY Binghamton - all within budget.

Iā€™m not sure how many small LACs would be expert in the major - but you can look at some - like a St. Lawrence, Wooster, Allegheny, Hobart, and many more that would potentially meet your budgetā€¦look at these to see if they might work or not. But $ wise Colgate should be out - unless you want to step up and again, this is likely a low paying degree and / or one that requires grad school - so that should be a part of your equation.

Never fall in love with a school and never consider a school out of budget. That budget figure should be sacred so that you remove emotion as you develop your considerations set.

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29

Me and my parents ran the NPC for Dartmouth tonight. Our financial situation is complicated because my parents are divorced and remarried, we have several properties that we donā€™t reside on, child support, etc. The calculator was more optimistic than me and said we would be expected to pay about $45,000 per year. I am well aware that this is a very high number but if I was accepted ED and the calculator provided a somewhat accurate estimate, we would be able to make it work. Most likely we could pay for the first 2/3 years, and with outside scholarships, my own contributions, and contributions from other relatives, we would need to take out minimal if any loans and still be in a good place for my brother. I still think finding more options that are cheaper is a good idea as a backup just in case ā€“ we ran the ASU scholarship calculator tonight and that looked promising as well as possibly having a chance for the honors collegeā€¦? Thank you all for your help I really appreciate it.

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30

If you can find 2-3 years thatā€™s not enough. Forget outside scholarships, they are unlikely. Perhaps you can find some local ones but they are typically small. The national ones are just crazy hard to get.

You said under $50k so itā€™s there. You may be able to talk to a counselor to ensure you filled out the NPC properly. Youā€™ll find different schools have different calcs etc.

But this is a solid start.

I was saying u of Arizona. Not ASU. Better for your situation. Also has Honors. See link. I put a few more too

U of A is $30k off of 38k

https://financialaid.arizona.edu/types-of-aid/scholarships/incoming-transfer

https://www.admissions.msstate.edu/sites/www.admissions.msstate.edu/files/2022-06/FINAL_Freshman%20InStateTUITION%20UPDATE.OOS%20Front%20and%20Back%2022-23UPDATE.pdf

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So glad that your family ran the NPC for Dartmouth. Thatā€™s a great step accomplished!

As your familyā€™s financial situation can be problematic with NPCs, you can also reach out to Dartmouthā€™s financial aid office and ask for a pre-read on your numbers due to those factors that make NPCs less than accurate. Most colleges will do this, and that way you know exactly what the number for Dartmouth would be.

The fact that the calculator estimated $45k and your family said they could pay $50k sounds good. My concern, however, is that your family only thinks it could do this for 2-3 years. If your family thinks that it can pay $45k for 2 years then you have a $90k budget for 4 years ($22,500/year). If you family can pay $45k for 3 years then you have a budget of $135k for 4 years ($33,750/year).

The number one reason for students dropping out of college is finances. Colleges are the biggest source of significant scholarship money. As @tsbna44 mentioned, outside scholarships tend to be relatively low dollar amounts and those that are for larger amounts are extremely competitive. Unless your relatives have said how much they are willing to give for your education, then I would not add that to your calculations, either. How would you feel if you need to transfer to a college that you could commute to from home after your sophomore or junior year at Dartmouth, if the tuition was even affordable for your family?

Ask your family how much they think they are willing and able to contribute per year for FOUR years. Give them time to come up with this number so they can check their accounts, their investment plan and financial horizon, their feelings, etc. Then develop your list of schools off of that number because, from what you mentioned above, that number doesnā€™t sound like $50k.

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32

From what I have heard this might make the Net Price Calculator less than fully reliable. Unfortunately financial aid can be more difficult to predict in these complicated situations (and it is beyond my ability to guess what the result might be).

If the NPC shows a net price of $45,000 per year, and it actually comes to full price at roughly $84,000 per year, this is a valid reason to break the ED agreement. However, you might want to be prepared in case this in fact happens. Of course you already need to be prepared in case you do not get into Dartmouth ED (or any other choice ED).

Also, I agree that you need to be fully prepared to fund a full 4 years at whatever university you attend before you decide to go there. It might be even better to be able to fund 5 years in case something goes wrong or changes (a dual major or late change in major for example might not count as ā€œgoing wrongā€ but might nonetheless delay graduation).

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You may want to ask Dartmouth financial aid directly to make sure that you filled in the net price calculator correctly given all of the above. For example, Dartmouth requires both parentsā€™ financials, so check whether it wants both stepparentsā€™ financials as well. Also ask how to put in information about rental properties and child support.

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34

I just want to make sure of one thing. Does one of your parents, especially the custodial parent, live in New Hampshire? Your state residency is NOT determined by where you attend boarding school. UNH is not giving instate tuition to everyone who attends St. Paulā€™s, Exeter, etc. If you in fact attend boarding school in the state where your custodial parent resides, thatā€™s fine. Just making sure.

Some states also consider children of non-custodial parents who reside in the state residents for purposes of tuition. I donā€™t know UNHā€™s policy. If your non-custodial parent lives in a different state it MAY give you another option for instate tuition.

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35

I agree with the others that this result may not be accurate. Dartmouth will likely want the financial info (income/assets) for all 4 adults (including the step-parents), even though their NPC didnā€™t specifically ask for that. Did you include that info? Are the owned properties farmland or vacant land? Or business investment, like apartment buildings?

I agree you should ask Dartmouth and any other schools on your list if they will do a financial pre-read because of the complexity of the situation. I donā€™t think Dartmouth routinely does financial pre-reads though, nor do most schools. But, still askā€¦call the FA office and say your family financials are complicated by divorce, remarriage, and multiple investment properties, and you want to have an accurate COA estimate before applying ED, so can you please do a financial aid pre-read (or help with the inputs on the NPC).

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