Please chance me?

<p>My stats:
Female, Asian, Canadian student </p>

<p>GPA: School doesn't use GPAS and no rankings, but all As except for a B
SAT I: 2190 (retaking in October, hoping to get >2300)
SAT II: Math 2- 800, Physics- 800
APs: Calc BC, Comp Sci, Psych, PhysicsCx2, Bio
AP National Scholar</p>

<p>Awards:
AIME qualifier, Math prize for girls qualifier
Provincial finalist for CAP (National physics Olympiad qualifier)
Provincial finalist & top girls team for computer programming competition
Success with various math contests</p>

<p>Research:
Clinical research student at hospital
Small summer physics research project</p>

<p>Athletics:
Skiing- certified instructor
hopefully Lifeguard certified by time of uni apps
Badminton- school team</p>

<p>Jobs:
Taught skiing over 2 years
Internship at small start-up</p>

<p>Summers:
Shad Valley (STEM and business camp) (gr 10 summer)
Competitive physics camp (gr 11 summer)</p>

<p>Volunteering:
~400 hrs from
Hospital
various tutoring
Swimming assistant</p>

<p>School clubs:
President and founder of Physics Club
Yearbook editor-in-chief
Schoolwide mentoring club founder and exec
Library club exec</p>

<p>Please chance me for Duke?
I'm also looking into various Ivies and others in the top 20 range- if possible, chance me for a few of those as well?
Thank you so much!</p>

<p>Because of all the skiing I’d assume you are Western Canadian? If so, I think Geography can help you. If you achieve the SAT you plan on, and with your grades and activities, I’d think you’d be a strong ED candidate or for that matter RD which you most certainly roll to if you do not get ED. I think your presentation suggests a certain dynamism which I think is appealing to Duke. Tough to assign a %, but higher than the average for both ED and RD. Best of luck to you.</p>

<p>Apply ED and cross your fingers.</p>

<p>kaukauna-
Thanks! That was quite uplifting to read.
I’m in Ontario though, does it make a big difference?
femaleBlueDevil-
Thanks, will do!</p>

<p>I’m also looking into Columbia and Princeton (engineering, as for Duke). How do they compare in terms of both excellence and competition? Between these three, which one would be a better early university for me? </p>

<p>kittencc: Well I very seldom post on this thread. For some reason I saw your post and decided to respond. I am by no means an expert on Duke, though. </p>

<p>Nevertheless I live in the South, have been to Duke many times with my daughter for sports, know several current students from my son’s HS, and my son applied there RD for the class of 2017 but did not get admitted. I think I understand the profile of the Duke student pretty well.</p>

<p>Geographic diversity is desirable at Duke and other top notch schools, so I was assuming that fewer Duke applicants come from Ontario than BC, and therefore that would be a slight edge for you. Not exactly a hook, but maybe a slight edge. I could be wrong.</p>

<p>You have an outstanding resume, and just looking at what you have done, I get the sense that you are a dynamic person with leadership ability. Also you would seem to be an “outdoorsy” type. I think Duke looks for these things in additon to academics (which you certainly have also). So leg up for Duke.</p>

<p>Duke engineering is comparable to Columbia, I would think, perhaps a notch behind Princeton in terms of prestige. But you’ll get all kinds of posters who will argue that point. All three are more outstanding universities which have engineering departments rather than outstanding U.S. engineering universities like CMU, GA Tech, Illinois, MIT, etc.</p>

<p>Here’s my gut feel based on reading your resume. Duke ED first. Princeton SCEA next. Columbia last. </p>

<p>@kittencc: Sincere congratulations on your excellent performance in high school. You are a solid candidate for ANY of the so-called elite (a term I dislike) undergraduate programs, both at national universities and at LACs. Unfortunately – and my honesty will serve you best – even that guarantees nothing; to illustrate, of the approximately 33,000 applicants for about 1,735 places in Duke '19, perhaps 30,000 will be entirely qualified and 20,000+ will be especially qualified. That’s the sad truth – at Duke, Columbia, Princeton, and the small group of their peers. All of these universities are essentially “stretch schools” for virtually every candidate, even the best ones.</p>

<p>However, I do have a suggestion. The three universities (DU, CU and PU) you evidently most favor have substantial differences, less in their academics and in the significant acceleration they will provide for your long future (postgraduate education, careers, and life) and more in their “cultures.” Momentarily putting aside the critical scholastic and intellectual elements of the three, where would you be happiest, where would your “cultural fit” be optimized, where would you most probably excel? For example, Columbia’s New York venue – and ALL that conveys – differs greatly from either Princeton’s or Duke’s. Neither Princeton nor Duke are in the “Big Apple,” but their locations and cultures can also be distinguished. Therefore, were I you, I’d first attempt to ascertain where that crucial, difficult to define, and pervasive “culture fit” is best for YOU (and for no one else). That would become my ED option (presuming the finances work), with the others as likely RD alternatives. Further, obviously you cannot go far wrong with any of those three, first-tier institutions. </p>

<p>Much more inconsequentially, I don’t believe your Canadian heritage will either advantage or detract from your candidacy.</p>

<p>I wish you good luck (and I hope the answer to your “cultural fit” question is Duke). </p>

<p>@kaukauna‌:
Your portrayal of the Duke student is very appealing, I must say. Thank you so much for the kind words! I’ll definitely be considering Duke ED. </p>

<p>@TopTier‌:
Thank you! I am (painfully) aware of the slim chances for any prestigious university. </p>

<p>I really like Columbia’s core curriculum and liked the vibe of a few students, but the fact that it’s in New York, as you mentioned, doesn’t particularly attract me. I think I’d fit in better with Duke and Princeton’s campus community, with a bit more gardens and school spirit. However, I never had the opportunity to visit Duke or dwell for long in Princeton, so the cultural differences (especially of the students attending) get a little hazy. Do you mind distinguishing them a bit?
I also hear of grade deflation at Princeton and Duke- how much does that come into play in courses? Does it make the environment heavily competitive?</p>

<p>Duke has not adopted a policy of grade deflation.</p>

<p>@kittencc: I appreciate your kind reply and will offer five comments for your consideration:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Having grown up on Long Island’s North shore (Huntington), I never considered NYU or Columbia (although my parents were alumni). I really wanted a smaller, more intimate, more “school spirited” undergraduate experience/community (especially one where little, if any, of the teaching was done by post-PhDs/TAs). That proved to be a wise “cultural fit” for me; obviously, however, that decision would have been poor for countless others, which only serves to highlight the criticality (IMHO) of opting for YOUR ideal “cultural fit.”</p></li>
<li><p>I’d like to share a comment I’ve repeatedly heard from Christoph Guttentag, Duke’s very sage and very nice Dean of Undergraduate Admissions (I serve – and have served, for decades – on several senior Duke alumni governance Boards/Executive Committees and, therefore, have been briefed by him every year or two). When asked to differentiate among the very best undergraduate programs at top national universities, he indicated they were ALL outstanding, but that cultural fit – and things including those freshmen classmates who just may become lifelong friends, business associates, or even marital partners . . . it happens thousands of times in every new entry class – were actually much greater “individual distinguishers” than a particular department’s strength, a given university’s immediate “comparative reputation,” or a few points in aggregate SAT results. I know you (and your parents/other advisors) understandably are attempting to ascertain which university is “the best,” but I respectfully suggest that definition must add “for you” and should include a lot of important things that are far more difficult to measure than last year’s acceptance percentage or the number of recent Rhodes, Goldwater, Churchill, Fulbright, etc. scholars. </p></li>
<li><p>Regarding “grade deflation,” I strongly recommend you carefully read a current thread entitled “Rigor” in Duke’s CC Forum. It provide considerable discussion – and insight – regarding this “myth” and, more important, how a demanding scholastic environment actually becomes a real benefit in selection for the most competitive jobs and postgraduate programs (concise version: the very best universities and employers are extremely astute and they likely strongly prefer a 3.3 GPA from a Duke, Princeton, or Columbia to a 3.7 from a good – but relatively undistinguished – university).</p></li>
<li><p>I really can’t comment with depth and accuracy regarding Duke versus Princeton (I know a good deal about Duke, but very little concerning Princeton), other than to state the self-evident: they are both GREAT institutions, with stellar undergraduate programs (anyone would be extremely fortunate to attend either). Many reputable assessment rate Princeton as America’s best university (solidly in the H-Y-P-S grouping) , with Duke in the top-ten (solidly in the Penn - Dartmouth - Brown - MIT group). What I can guarantee is no one – employer, colleague, acquaintance, neighbor, and so forth – will EVER feel that you attended other than a superb university if you should go to either school. The very common “sport” among high schoolers and their parents (etc.) is to micro-examine such schools in a (futile?) attempt to determine its minute advantages and disadvantages. However, I necessarily return to “your individual cultural fit” as THE most vital metic (because both universities are so good and so recognized for their quality). I urge you to visit both, and for more than the standard campus tour(s) and admissions presentation(s). Attend some classes, live in a dorm for at least one night, walk and talk with undergraduates, have a conversation with one or two faculty members (and possibly administrators), spend some time in the town; in sum – and crucially – get a real “feeling” for the place, the community, the constituencies, and the people. </p></li>
<li><p>Finally, you’re in your late-teens, with a LONG life ahead. Consequentially, it may be even more important for you to attempt to project a candidate-university’s stature a decade or three from now, rather than only its current attributes. That’s because the personal and professional opportunities you may have in middle-age (and beyond) could be hyper-competive. I absolutely understand this is very difficult and replete with uncertainty; nevertheless, considering your long-future (years and decades after you receive your bachelor’s degree), this is smart and might also be a key “tie breaker” in your decision making.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck. </p>

<p>My friend (Duke undergrad, current PhD student at Princeton) says Princeton’s campus is a smaller, not as nice version of Duke’s. And that there is absolutely nothing to do in Princeton itself (no nearby bars, restaurants, hang-out spots) unlike there is at Duke, where Durham has recently been going through a revitalization. Plenty of spots near campus that students frequent. Says the student life doesn’t compare (although, admittedly grad student life is very different from undergrad for most everybody). Just one person’s opinion, of course, but the only person I know well to have attended both institutions. Obviously, Princeton has phenomenal academics, but the student life may be something to consider. I applied to Columbia engineering too, but felt the sense of community / NYC lifestyle in college wasn’t for me. Definitely felt Duke would provide a more nurturing tight knit community with a lot of school pride, which was appealing to me. To TopTier’s point, it’s a lot about fit and where you think you’d be happiest. Good luck.</p>

<p>I have attended both schools and I can attest to the fact that Duke has a more beautiful campus. Princeton has more history, but you just can’t beat Duke’s campus aesthetics.</p>

<p>@kittencc: I apologize; I neglected to respond to your question re excessive academic competitiveness. Accordingly:</p>

<ol>
<li> Any of the undergraduate schools in which you are most interested (i.e., DU, CU and PU) will have truly demanding academics and hard, focused effort will certainly be required (I know that isn’t surprising). However, my experiences at Duke consistently are that there is a genuine team spirit and approach (professors, fellow students, and others cooperating and collaborating) to learning and to attaining individual scholastic excellence. I have not seen the selfish “cut-throatedness” that sometimes seems prominent at a few peer institutions. While almost every student ardently wants to learn, to achieve, and to excel, never would he attempt to do so at the expense of his peers – in fact, just the opposite seems to be true at Duke. Please permit me to illustrate this significant difference with an actual experience. My brother attended an Ivy (not Columbia or Princeton). Several times, he reported that important mandatory readings – placed on library reserve, in an era long before digitization or the internet – would often be “lost” (or the relevant pages would be excised), thereby precluding other students from reading these assigned materials. Such academic duplicity was absolutely unknown at Duke – and it would have been universally perceived as completely unacceptable (and, I’d guess, severely punished).<br></li>
</ol>

<p>femaleBlueDevil‌:
Oh, my bad.
Duke sounds lovely.</p>

<p>bluedog‌:
That is very interesting! I will look into the culture fit (although you’ve definitely sold Duke for me, haha.)
Thank you!</p>

<p>TopTier‌:
No need to apologize- I am very grateful for the amount of detail in your replies, so thank you.</p>

<ol>
<li>I absolutely agree with where you’re coming from. With what’s been mentioned on this thread and from vague stalking on the rest of the Duke threads, I think I would thrive in Duke’s small community. (So whoot!)</li>
<li>Sounds very wise. I’ll definitely put extra effort towards getting to understand a school’s vibe. </li>
<li>Will do. (and thank you.)</li>
<li>I hear echoes of point 2! </li>
<li>Oh, the ominous future. This would include aspects such as the alumni network, right?</li>
<li>That is wonderful to know! I am very glad. </li>
</ol>

<p>Thank you again for putting so much effort into helping with my confusion. I will go and meditate on all of the advice you’ve brought up. If I spring upon a question again, would you mind if I bother you? </p>

<p>I definitely didn’t expect so much input on this thread, so (again) THANK YOU to everyone who commented on this thread! ( @kaukauna‌ , @femaleBlueDevil‌ , @bluedog‌ , @TopTier‌ ) Best wishes.</p>

<p>@kittencc:
“If I spring upon a question again, would you mind if I bother you?” Of course; it would never be a “bother.” </p>

<p>Regarding Duke vs Princeton:</p>

<p>An interesting piece of history regarding the Gothic architecture of both schools. Read more below</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2013/10/30/crafting-our-gothic-wonderland”>http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2013/10/30/crafting-our-gothic-wonderland&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Personally, in terms of the quality of the undergraduate experience, I would rank the three schools that you’re interested in as follows:</p>

<p>1). Princeton (by a reasonable margin)
2). Duke
3). Columbia (perhaps the best of the lot for certain graduate programs)</p>

<p>Pretty sure Princeton has severe grade deflation because only a certain percentage of grades given out in each department can be As. Either way, you look like a competitive applicant (especially for ED).</p>