<p>My son is high school junior and we’re just starting to think about colleges. His grades and test scores will be good but not great. (He is extremely bright, but has Asperger’s Syndrome, so his grades don’t really match his IQ; we need to find a place where he can get in, but then be challenged once he gets there.)</p>
<p>Can anyone in the know fill me in on the general academic reputation of any or all of these schools and what they’re “known for”?</p>
<li><p>Baylor</p></li>
<li><p>Texas State University</p></li>
<li><p>SMU</p></li>
<li><p>Texas Christian University</p></li>
<li><p>Trinity University</p></li>
<li><p>Austin College</p></li>
<li><p>University of Tulsa</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Rice is considered only first rank school in Texas. Others you list are weak, although most poorly regarded would be Texas State (nee San Marcos State) and Austin College. University of Tulsa probably strongest of this bunch. Baylor and SMU are not nearly in class of U of Texas, and suffer, as does TCU, from higher tuitions for lesser education.</p>
<p>Thanks. UT has over 48,000 students. Due to my son's neurological issues, we're looking for a school with under 10,000 students. Under 5,000 would be great. Also due to his neurological issues, we're looking for a school that's not too terribly far from home.</p>
<p>We were dreaming of Rice. I looked at their admissions page and read about how they don't consider class rank and test scores all that much, but instead, are looking for the well rounded student who loves to learn. Okay, I thought he'd have a shot. But then I found Rice's actual statistics, and saw that 74% of their freshmen were in the top 5% of their class. Okay, so they're looking for the well rounded student who loves to learn who is in the top 5% of his class.</p>
<p>His class rank will be in the 15-20% range (very competitive high school) and his practice SATs are coming in in the 1900s. So we'll need a level (or 2?) down from Rice.</p>
<p>Would you be comfortable with him in another part of the country? The Northeast and Midwest would offer a number of smaller schools that would be matches. Unfortunately, there are not many choices in this state or surrounding ones.</p>
<p>I think redcrimblue's analysis of the non-Rice group is unnecessarily harsh and blinded by CC "ivy envy" - most of those schools are excellent by overall national standards and produce plenty of outstanding graduates. I would think that a smaller, more nurturing environment like Austin College or Southwestern University (not on the list) would be excellent choices for a student with Asperger's.</p>
<p>Do you like Southwestern? All I know about it is the experience of a neighbor girl who left there after one year because she thought it was too preppy/13th grade.</p>
<p>I'm no expert on AS, but don't necessarily think that your son could never get into Rice. I'm a student at Rice, and we certainly have people with lower GPAs and SATs than those that your son has. Perhaps his condition could in some weird way make him look better to the admissions council. Either way, I agree that redcrimblue was way out of line in saying that those schools are "weak." Several of the ones you listed are excellent choices and should not be insulted as such.</p>
<p>Which on the list do you think are "excellent choices"?</p>
<p>He may still apply to Rice, depending on how the real test scores turn out. He's taking 5 AP courses this year, so that could boost his class rank if he does well on them. I call him "neurologically spacey." He will get a grade between 86 and 92 on just about any course he takes, be it Health with the dregs of the school, or an AP class...he's just not "together" enough to get all of the available points on anything.</p>
<p>However, he just SEEMS like a Rice student to me. If he had an interview, I'm pretty sure the Rice folks would think he seemed like a Rice student. But then they'll look at the class rank....</p>
<p>I've heard good things from people on this forum about Trinity University. I don't think it's that great for engineering or computer science, but for math or economics it would be good. Top notch education, small size. Visit it and see if your son "clicks".</p>
<p>In my own research in the past I have come across a few different sites that include recommendations for students with AS or LDs. I am not familiar with schools in Texas but you might want to look at these sites: </p>
<p>Also for whatever it is worth all of your choices except Univ of Tulsa are listed in the US News "A+ Options for B Students" Honor Roll list, and Baylor, SMU, Texas Christian and Univ of Tulsa are all listed in their top 125 national universities list so it looks like you have some good candidates even based on national standards.</p>
<p>I second the suggestion to look into Trinity. We visited and were very impressed with the academics and feel of the school. It's not at the same level as Rice, but it's closer than the other smaller alternatives in Texas.</p>
<p>TU (Tulsa) and Trinity are very fine schools. Both founded by Presbyterian church which historically placed great value on strong formal education. Trinity attempted a specific stategy about 30 years back to "buy" National Merit Scholars. A&M has done same thing. They've quited down some. </p>
<p>I personally think Tulsa is one of the real hidden gems in the higher education world. It is among the top 50 or so in the nation in endowment, but much higher when one looks at endowment/student (especially UNDERGRAD students). That is a far more telling statistic that we're rarely told about. The campus is very nice, LOTS of new facilities including apartment style living surrounding the campus, and Div I sports to entertain. And unlike virtually any other place in the country, ALL events including athletic events are FREE to students. Let me tell you ... if Tulsa were in the Middle Atlantic or New England, you'd be talking about it in the same breath as Williams, Amherst, etc. but with a much more conservative bent. Look at this very carefully. It's only real down side, and this is the old double edged knife, is that it's in OK, which I think is great. But the Coastal (both) snobs pooh pooh it all. That's the only thing that keeps Rice from being recognized among the top 3, along with Stanford and Princeton. In terms of cost/value ratios ... Tulsa blows them all away. And lots of really great teachers very interested in doing just that. Tulsa is no great shakes. The up side is that there is no real down side to Tulsa. Were I a college pres who really wanted to make a name for myself, I'd be busting hump to get to TU.</p>
<p>SMU is very nice. Not a great value IMO. Pay too much for too little. </p>
<p>btw, I've only visited all these places once and I've none in my family who've attended there, unfortunately. So I've no vested interest in any of these.</p>
<p>As for the NE ... and I'm from Gore country ... there are MANY colleges and universities with great reputations, many sorely unmerited. Were many of these in OK, they'd be like Parsons and Hiram Scott ... long gone or transformed into Maharishi Gooru U.</p>
<p>As an SMU student, I will say that it is a wonderful school. As a student who is on scholarship, I will say that I would not pay the sticker price for this school. That's OK - sticker price is NOT relevant if you anticipate any scholarship/financial aid at all (and the school is VERY generous). </p>
<p>As far as SMU not being in the class of U of Texas...in research, definitely not. In teaching and opportunities for undergrads to be involved, however, I believe that SMU is at least on par with UT. It's not a "weak" school by any means.</p>
<p>SMU is dedicated to working with students who have disabilities, and the size (small enough for personal attention to be given but large enough to provide a full range of opportunities) is ideal. </p>
<p>That being said, I would definitely check out Trinity, Austin College, TCU, Baylor, Southwestern, and Tulsa, in addition to SMU. I'd eliminate Texas State (too large for personal attention + not on the same level with the other schools on the list). Find the best fit.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Rice is considered only first rank school in Texas. Others you list are weak
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Redcrimblue, were I asked to rank the schools that compose the Ivy League for reputation, quality of education, and quality of life, I would easily mark down Cornell as the weakest, and maybe add, by a far margin. How accurate would that be? Would that not depend entirely on one's viewpoint? </p>
<p>For the record, I have no idea on how much verifiable information you possess about the schools you called weak, but I'd encourage you to read a couple of pages about them. Rice only first rank in Texas? Suuuuure! </p>
<p>Anyway, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not necessarily his own facts. Astute readers should be able to see the difference between the two. For the record, several of the schools listed are VERY good schools. In the small school range, Southwestern and Trinity offer very competitive programs and a wonderful environment. </p>
<p>As an alternative to the massive UT at Austin, I'd like to add the UT in Dallas. There are lots of good things happening there.</p>
<p>I stand by what I said in the context of the question of "general academic reputation," as the OP requested. Given other issues for this student, I think others mentioned might make sense, with Trinity possibly a good choice. On a national scale though, all except Rice lacking. I am generally familiar with Asperger's and recognize the challenge it presents, but the question sought an answer based on reputation and it was fairly answered. I have lived and worked in Texas most of my life and am very well informed on each of the schools presented.</p>
<p>RCB, the OP never asked about a NATIONAL reputation; she asked about general academic reputation, and it was pretty obvious that all the schools on her list were regional. </p>
<p>And, if you were "very well informed" about each one of the schools listed, your answer might have included something about what the schools are known for instead of labeling them weak!</p>
<p>Based on your post in this thead as well as prior ones, I also stand by what I said in my earlier post.</p>
<p>I must disagree with redcrimblue. This is not a "weak" list of schools. We'd agree that Texas State's reputation is not at the level of the others, but frankly that means little beyond philosophical discussions like these. </p>
<p>In the end, there is only one way to measure the ultimate value of a college experience, and that is to attempt to assess how much value a particular college or U. adds to a student experience. And that cannot happen until the end, i.e. after it's all over. And even then, it can be nothing short of impossible to measure. But that's really all that counts. How much difference did the collection of resources at XYZ University make for a particular student.</p>
<p>Robert Pace and his successor Alexander Astin have done extensive research on this. And they often note that a student may well get more value added to their life at a Slippery Rock than at a Stanford. Indeed, many students might thrive at the former and flounder at the latter, regardless of reputation.</p>
<p>That noted, Rice clearly has and merits top billing among these schools in a collegiate beauty contest. Does that mean in any, way, shape or form that a student, even if admitted, would have a superior experience there. Of course not. </p>
<p>So red's right in terms of the question and relating it to reputation. Where I believe he's sorely off-target is using the term "weak." No matter how one slices it, these are not "weak" institutions by any measure, with the exception of Texas State, which again, even using it there may be a gross miscarriage. Slippery Rock has the finest special education and health/exercise science programs in PA, with many seeking admission there. Far superior to Carnegie Mellon. So the answer to this all requires some research.</p>
<p>U of Tulsa is a very fine and probably excellent institution. It's a good mix between a LAC and a larger university and thus it is not overwhelming and can provide individual attention to undergraduate students.</p>
<p>Of the list that you provided, I'd say that Trinity is certainly the best. It's a good size and a nice atmosphere.</p>
<p>But as you know and other's have mentioned, Rice is really the gem of Texas. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to get into Rice and I believe that Rice under Leebron's direction is on some sort of mission to diversify geographically and ethnically i.e. if you are from Texas (especially Houston) you are at a (large?) disadvantage. I saw a lot of REALLY smart students who were definitely the Rice type denied outright.</p>
<p>SMU is okay and a lot of people who come out of there do quite well for themselves, but I cannot imagine someone with asperger's doing well the social atmosphere. Same thing with the social atmosphere at TCU.</p>
<p>Baylor and TSU are quite weak academically.</p>
<p>I'm not qualified to speak on any of the other schools since I have no real experience with them.</p>
<p>I know a couple of smart kids who have never been formally diagnosed with asperger's but who fit the model case and both ended up attending UT. They seem to be doing well, but they have been plauged with the same problem from high school which is low grades in courses they are not fully interested in--something like overall GPA of 2.5 and major GPA of 4.0. You might consider applying to UT-Austin.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for all your generous responses!</p>
<p>I admit that Texas State is on the list soley because our family enjoys the San Marcos area. </p>
<p>Quite telling that I didn't put SMU on the list. I'm an SMU law grad...I'd classify it as "good, but not worth the money." I will say that as a poverty stricken 2nd career law student, the sight of all these kids in their Beemers (this was the '80s) and condos that Daddy bought didn't sit too well with me. </p>
<p>I've read that Baylor, TCU and Southwestern are intensely Greek...true? Joining a frat would be about the last thing in the world that my son would do. Being an Aspie, he won't crave what others would consider a full social life, but he isn't all study.</p>