<p>I wanted to know should my son be preparing for the SAT Subject Test and AP tests separately or is preparing for the AP test sufficent to take the Subject Test? I am asking because my son will be taking his AP tests in May. Should he try to schedule his SAT Subject Tests around the same time or give himself a little more time after the AP Tests to prepare for the Subject Tests?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>It will vary depending on exactly which subjects he’s considering. In general, though, the AP Tests and relevant Subject Tests will match closely enough in content that preparing for one helps significantly on the other. Because AP Tests generally require more in-depth knowledge than do the Subject Tests, preparing for the AP Test will cover what you need to know on the Subject Test better than vice-versa.</p>
<p>You can go on the College Board website, and it outlines what’s on each Subject Test as well as has sample questions. You can decide whether it matches what’s been taught in your particular course.</p>
<p>[About</a> the Tests - SAT Subject Test](<a href=“The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board”>What were SAT Subject Tests? - College Board Blog)</p>
<p>ETA: Note that not all tests are offered on all dates. That’s why I’ve scheduled my ds to take his last two Subject Tests in June. Latin is offered in June but not May.</p>
<p>perazziman,</p>
<p>It depends. I think a student should take subject tests when they’re ready, typically after they’ve recently studied the topic. Sometimes that coincides with the AP exams and sometimes it doesn’t. As an example, if your son were taking the Calc A/B or B/C exam this May and he hadn’t taken the Math II, I would encourage you to have him take the SAT II in June.</p>
<p>As I think back, my son took AP Physics B the same year he took the Physics SAT. He took the SAT II Lit exam midway through junior year, though he won’t do the AP Lit until this May (senior year), so that one didn’t coincide.</p>
<p>Great info. thank you.</p>
<p>He is a junior, taking AP tests in Chemistry, Biology, US History and English Lang. this semester. In addition, he is taking AP Comp Sci II, Pre AP Physics and Pre AP Pre Calculus this semester.</p>
<p>Next year he takes AP Physics and AP Calculus. </p>
<p>He is attending a rigorous public school. </p>
<p>He is interested in majoring in Mechanical Engineering. </p>
<p>He had 219 on the PSAT (Hopefully good for NMSemifinalist in TX and NHRP Scholar)</p>
<p>So the question is when should he take the Subject and Reasoning Testsand what subjects? I understand he can sign up for May, June, October and November dates.</p>
<p>His favorite subject is Physics (Has a 97% average), but it is Pre AP. </p>
<p>Should he take the Chemistry and/ or Biology Subject test instead of Physics since he will be taking the AP tests in these subjects this semester?</p>
<p>Should he take Math 2 in June or in October/ November, when he has had a semester of AP Calculus? If he takes it in June after pre Calculus finals, he could prepare all summer and take SAT Reasoning test in October. Conversely he could skip June prepare all summer and take Reasoning and Math 2 in October/ November, respectively. </p>
<p>What do you guys think, what is the most logical path? I am sorry to throw so many questions at you, but we are really confused. Thank you for your help.</p>
<p>I have lots of questions back at you!</p>
<p>Does he know what schools he’s interested in? Do they even require SUbject Tests? If so, do they require specific ones? Does he want to do rolling admits, and if so, will October and November tests be too late?</p>
<p>Last year, ds2 took Math II after having completed precal. He did really well with some outside prep, especially for a non-math kid. Part of that is because his school is pretty rigorous so the kids are well-prepared. So my last question is how well you think your son’s school prepares students? That’s where looking over the topics covered comes in. A good pre-AP physics class may be enough.</p>
<p>And great PSAT score! I’m sure that’ll hold in Texas. My ds is likely to miss the cutoff by a point or two. :(</p>
<p>ETA: Do you have a good GC who could help answer questions about how the pre-AP classes align with the ST material?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We had not thought about it, so thanks for bringing it up, but it seems he will be okay. His safeties/ matches are TX A&M and Northeastern. Neither requires Subject Tests. Both give full scholarships to NMSFinalists. </p>
<p>The Subject tests will be going to the lottery schools, such as U Penn & MIT, if he gets good scores. I believe the Nov. date is acceptable for ED. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I believe the school is quite rigorous. Son has struggled hard to catch up with the students in his high school. (He attended poor, mostly Hispanic elementary and middle schools from which few go on to college/ zero NMFs in a class of 900). He has fought a tremendous uphill battle, so I am quite proud of him. This high school does not have Naviance, but I know they had four acceptances to Stanford in a class of ~700. I overheard the school counselors talking about it to one of the kids who was accepted. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Last year the cutoff jumped 4 points to 219. So who knows where it goes this year? Although, a lot of people are saying the cut offs should drop this year. And thank you again,</p>
<p>We have decided,</p>
<p>He takes Chemistry Subject Test in May, Biology Subject Test in June, SAT Reasoning in October and Math II/ Physics in November.</p>
<p>Any suggestions on prep books for these subjects (Math 2 and Physics)? He really will not have time to prepare for the Chemistry and Biology beyond what he does for the AP Tests.</p>
<p>Thank you,</p>
<p>You know that you can take up to three at one sitting for the same price, right? Why not take Chem and Bio together?</p>
<p>Ds used the Blue Book for Math II.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Many kids at his High School, especially those who have been participating in Mathematics and Science competitions and summer programs since Middle School are taking AP Calculus right now, at his school. My son is taking PreAP Calculus and PreAP Physics and has to work quite hard to keep up, I might add. He has significant gaps in his Math and Science knowledge, partly I believe, because of poor Elementary and Middle Schools. </p>
<p>So, should he take the Math 2 and Physics now or wait until November when he will be finishing a semester of AP Calculus/ Physics and prep over the summer?</p>
<p>First, I agree w/silverturtle that prepping for APs means no extra prep for Subject tests. I’m not sure how well the pre AP Physics prepares you as I don’t know what they cover.</p>
<p>I also think he should stack 2 together on the same day, 3 is a lot, but 2 is very doable.</p>
<p>My suggestion would be to take the Math 2 this spring as well rather than in the fall. Math 2 is best taken after precalc, you don’t need calc. As a matter of fact, the math is easy for kids at that level, and he will have to go back and review some things he hasn’t done in awhile so that he can move quickly in the test (see the link that yds gave for practice questions and for what’s covered on the test). </p>
<p>You might also consider taking the USH Subject test this spring if his class has been solid, it’s a very straightforward test for those taking the AP course. It would also add some balance to his math/science interests.</p>
<p>Another reason for not delaying the Math 2 until the fall is that he is going to be very busy then with school and applications. Since he doesn’t have time to prep to take the main SAT this spring, I’d recommend he prep for that over the summer and (unless it’s recommended/required by one of his schools) forget about the Physics Subject test, a math and 2 sciences is plenty. I would stress that the SAT is much more important to do well in than spending time on a third or fourth Subject test. And particularly since he hasn’t taken the SAT yet, it would be best if he did well his first shot as taking it again in the winter (Dec at the earliest if he waits to get Oct results) is going to be both time consuming and not the best option admissions-wise if he’s applying to any early or rolling schools.</p>
<p>I believe my kids used the CB prep book for the Math 2:</p>
<p>[The</a> Official SAT Subject Tests in Mathematics Levels 1 & 2 Study Guide ™](<a href=“Error page”>The Official SAT Subject Tests in Mathematics Levels 1 & 2 Study Guide (TM))</p>
<p>My recommendation would be to take some combination of Chem, Bio, Math 2 & USH this spring and SAT in Oct.</p>
<p>x-posted w/perazz</p>
<p>I agree w/entomom about trying to clear the decks as much as possible for the fall – in other words, finish all testing he can this spring. Fall is incredibly busy.</p>
<p>With ds1, we didn’t know about Subject Tests in his sophomore year, when he took precal. He ended up taking Math II in October junior year. I don’t think the extra weeks of BC Cal helped at all with the test. With ds2, we knew to take it in June of sophomore year, and he did work out of the CB Math II prep book (that’s what I meant by the Blue Book earlier). He had a 40-point higher score than his brother, who was the stronger math student (though ds2 is the stronger test taker).</p>
<p>If he uses the prep book, don’t just take timed tests. It’s important to be able to do the work quickly, but first you have to determine whether he knows how to do the work at all. In other words, take a test untimed with the goal to get every question right. Let him use all resources available. Then, work on speed.</p>
<p>I’d recommend taking at least two, if not three, subject tests this May, alongside the APs.</p>
<p>Perraziman,</p>
<p>I agree with everyone who says take as many as you can this spring. He can try in May and then in June. Then, if he needs to retake, he can see where his weakness lie. Yes, it’s $33 a test, but it might be worth it. (And maybe you qualify for a waiver?)</p>
<p>My son’s path might not be helpful because we’re homeschoolers. Also, my son considered matriculating 3 years early, so he took his first subject tests in 8th grade. For physics, he had taken a yearlong college class using the Giancoli textbook and that was more than sufficient for the exam without studying. I’m not sure what high school class uses Giancoli but it seems that it’s AP Physics B, the physics without calculus.</p>
<p>My son also took Math II in 8th grade after a semester of calculus. He scored a 760 which, while good, wasn’t indicative of his strength, so he retook it in 10th or 11th to get the 800.</p>
<p>So, just for information’s sake, he ended up with 800 Physics, 800 Math II, 730 Lit and that’s all he took. At the end of junior year, I was pushing him to try his hand at the chem as he was self-studying AP chem during the summer but when applications hit, I knew he was too busy and so he dropped it. It didn’t hurt him to only have 3 SATs, thankfully.</p>
<p>I should qualify that and say he had to retake his 8th grade physics SAT II for Caltech because they wanted to see more recent scores.</p>
<p>I think the Princeton Review SAT guides (is that what it’s called?) are sufficient prep. We either borrow them from the library or buy them used on Amazon for a few dollars.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thank you for your valuable insights, that was very helpful. He read your post and has agreed to get his subject tests completed by June. I bought him the CB Subject Test Book yesterday. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>He has agreed to prepare for the SAT Reasoning Test over the summer and take it in October. Thanks again entomom. Other than that, over the summer, he will try to brush up on his Spanish, before taking Spanish 3 next year. He has been invited by his grandma to spend the summer holidays in Barcelona. So, he will get to enjoy practicing his Spanish while he is there. Is there anything else related to college admissions, that he should be working on over the summer?</p>
<p>I know kids don’t want to do this, but getting a jump on essays would be great. I wouldn’t make a huge production out of it, but boys in particular aren’t used to the introspective writing that college essays sometimes take. Ds2 has applied for a number of summer programs now that require essays and so has a little bank of writings upon which he can draw. I feel much better knowing about that going into the fall.</p>
<p>^I agree, at least be thinking of ideas of what to write about. D2 used one of her soph English essays as the basis of one of her main essays. </p>
<p>I would suggest that you all make a tentative list of schools, then check their websites for supplemental essay topics. Most of the more general ones remain the same from year to year. The ones that definitely change are those with student generated topics (eg. UChicago) and those that use quotations (eg. Amherst). Usually kids can mix and match essays, lengthening or shortening, changing emphasis, etc. so that they don’t have to write additional ones for each different prompt. We copied prompts into a Word document so that we could see where there were overlaps in topics (full disclosure, ie. the truth: I did this for her, but she wrote the essays :D!)</p>
<p>He will likely need at least 2 solid ‘long’ essays on any topic (1 for the main CA and 1 is asked for in the supplement of many schools). In addition he needs a short one on an EC for the CA. The other, more specific ones can wait until he makes a definite school list.</p>
<p>Has he asked for teacher LORs yet? He should definitely do that before school lets out.</p>
<p>Sounds like a wonderful summer, I’m envious that he’ll be in Barcelona!</p>
<p>A few more comments about essays. </p>
<p>My general rule about long essays is: if it’s in your application, don’t put it in your essay. In other words, your essays should ADD information and insight into who you are, not reemphasize what you’ve already told them in your academic or EC record.</p>
<p>Also, don’t feel like you have to tackle a big or heavy, ‘change the world’ type of subject. I believe that ‘smaller’ topics are often much more effective in shining a light on what makes you unique–ie. why the school wants YOU.</p>
<p>One device that both my kids used for an essay was to combine and relate two apparently different subjects. For D1, it was baking and hiking, she described how a hike we took kept reminding her of various parts of the baking process. It was a narrative of how she viewed the world around her. D2 had an essay about playing Scrabble; it included a connection between the aesthetics of certain words and chemical structures, linking her fascination with words to her interest in science.</p>
<p>I agree with everything entomom said. :-)</p>
<p>I think essays are one of the key components to the application. They do take time but they give kids a “voice” and give schools a deeper look into who they are and how they think. </p>
<p>I agree that essays don’t need to be deep or profound or about changing the world. Probably one my son’s best essays was one titled, “Calculus is Like Sucking My Thumb”. In it, he described how he likes to vegitate/relax by watching calculus videos. </p>
<p>I would also add, once you’ve made a list of colleges, sometime in August, have your son contact the colleges by email or phone, just to introduce himself, ask questions, get familiar with admissions, and in that way, he also gets on their radar.</p>
<p>I encouraged my son to email schools and ask questions about two specific areas: homeschooling and diversity. I honestly can’t say if it helped schools to know him more from the get go, but he had some really helpful email and phone conversations with several schools and at least one school noted his high interest in them via these interactions.</p>
<p>Also, application deadlines are good to know and making a spreadsheet can help with this. You also might want to have your son download the Common Application as soon as he can so he can familiarize himself with it. (And some schools, like MIT, don’t use it)</p>
<p>Barcelona sounds wonderful!!</p>
<p>PS. I’ll share one piece of advice that my son got regarding essays. On the Common Application, there’s a section that asks for more info. Most kids stick a resume there. The advice given to my son was: write another essay. It was really nice to be able to do that. </p>
<p>As a benefit of college applications, I think my son became a better writer. :-)</p>