Please help me before May 1st! (Brown vs. Berkeley vs. Duke OOS)

College Search & Selection
1

Hi everybody!

I was fortunate to be accepted to many great colleges, largely because of the CC community’s help, and I’ve narrowed my choices to Brown vs. Berkeley (OOS) vs. Duke. After taking numerous coding classes in high school and doing many hackathons, I’ve figured out that I’d love to pursue CS and dabble in entrepreneurship and finance.

I’d hope to eventually work in either Silicon Valley, Boston, or NYC in the future. To sum my major preferences, the internship scene/alumni connections to Silicon Valley/Wall Street is most vital, but I also want an energetic, collaborative environment where people love solving real-world problems.

For a more detailed list of pros vs cons:

BROWN:
-Pros:
— Open curriculum (I’m interested in CS, finance, applied math, so it’d be easy to tie together in the open curriculum and become a well-rounded curriculum) (most important)
— Very collaborative/tight-knit CS community (very important)
— Close to home (I live in MA)
— Large focus on undergrads, giving access to research, clubs, etc

-Cons:
— Not too well-represented or respected on Silicon Valley or Wall Street compared to Berkeley and Duke respectively (most important)
— Facilities/dorms/living spaces/campus seems run down
— Endowment is the smallest, which is visible in facilities and career center lack of staff
— Food isn’t that good
— Atmosphere is kinda too laid-back

DUKE:
-Pros:
— Great Opportunities for all my interests (majors in CS and math, along with markets and management certificate) (most important)
— Beautiful Campus with a large endowment
— Just lots of opportunities in general (Duke Engage, Duke Focus, etc)
— Career services tends to be really strong in recruiting/finance (very important)
— Great school spirit/ amazing alumni network

-Cons:
— In my opinion, the weakest CS program of the three and not so-strong recruiting to Silicon Valley (most important)
— Some people were too fratty and just made me feel a bit uncomfortable (though most people were very kind)
— Administration tends to be more secretive/not answer questions directly (they usually darted my “hard” questions)
— Many programs like Duke Engage were application based
— Atmosphere is kinda too laid-back

BERKELEY:
-Pros:
— The best CS program by far and strongest connections to Silicon Valley (most important)
— The best applied math program
— Beautiful campus
— Lots of opportunities to work with the brightest (very important)
— Very straightforward professors who answered my questions very honestly
— Very energetic campus with people bubbling to make a difference in the world with CS

-Cons:
— Class sizes are too large and student-teacher ratios are even bigger, so I fear being lost or getting the help I need (most important)
— Dorms are tiny
— Stressful atmosphere/competitive to get research/join top clubs (very important)
— Administration is tough to deal with
— Relatively large, but weak alumni network (very important)
— Difficult to stand out when applying for internships/jobs (very important)

Ultimately, one major question that’s in my head is whether I want to choose a small, private university that is mediocre at CS but offers many accessible opportunities or a large, research university that is the best at CS and has the most opportunities, but whose opportunities are hardest to get.

Also, money isn’t an issue, as all the schools cost around the same.

Thanks so much!

2

I don’t know a lot about Brown and Berkeley but I’ll do my best to address some of the points you made about Duke.

1). Duke is a making a big push to encourage entrepreneurship (a lot of schools are doing this but most schools don’t have Duke’s resources).

https://entrepreneurship.duke.edu/education/duke-in-silicon-valley/
https://entrepreneurship.duke.edu/melissaanddoug/
https://today.duke.edu/2012/05/rubenstein-gift

2). Brown and Duke are both ranked 25th for computer science by US News. Duke is ranked higher for CS by QS. Individual rankings don’t mean much but it’s clear that one program is not significantly better than the other.

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/computer-science-rankings/page+2
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2018/computer-science-information-systems

3). Duke is definitely not “too laid back”. You can make the experience as challenging as you want it to be. Also, taking the coursework at any of these universities for granted is a recipe for disaster.

3

For Berkeley, are you in EECS or L&S? If L&S, you need a 3.3 GPA in the three prerequisite CS courses to declare the L&S CS major.

4

I’m in L&S, but I’ve done lots of programming in high school, so I’m fairly confident that I can get a 3.3

5

Where do you think you’ll have the best opportunity to shine and explore your interests? Do you have a preference of which cost you like better? Where you want to live after graduation? You have some wonderful options on the table. You wont go wrong anywhere! Congrats!

6

It sounds like you’d feel most comfortable at Berkeley. I wonder if you know that in your gut and have come up with the issues at the other schools to essentially back up what you’re feeling.

Fwiw, the social vibes at Duke and Brown are really really different. Both are social, if that’s what you mean by laid-back, but not in a way that would necessarily appeal to the same person.

All amazing schools, so I would pick based on where you think you would be happiest.

7

I think you are mistaken about Brown’s reputation for CS in the tech world, it’s quite strong. Also, I wouldn’t go by those rankings–they do not evaluate the caliber of the teaching and support at the UG level, which Brown CS excels at.

8

@ciervo I know Brown’s reputation is strong, and UG CS is amazing. I’m just talking about its reputation relative to Berkeley.

9

@momofsenior1 They all cost relatively the same (Berkeley might be cheaper if I graduate in three years). I think Brown and Duke might let me explore my interests more, as they’re private schools. I think I’d ideally like to work in San Francisco, though maybe Boston or NYC if I take more of a tech-banking route.

10

Berkeley has everything you need to explore. And the CS dept is the best in the world. That said, it is a large University and CS is a competitive major. I think you can’t go wrong with Brown. It’s an ivy, its smaller than Berkeley. Between the 2 I’d choose Brown. Duke I just don’t see its appeal. Do you want to live in the South?

11

@preppedparent I don’t want to live in the South in the long-run, though I’d be fine with staying there for four years during my college experience. Duke’s main appeal is its heavy focus on finance, along with its many more opportunities than Brown. Its campus is also beautiful.

12

Anyone who says Duke is “weak” in computer science or does not place well in Silicon Valley is wrong. If you want to go to Duke, you should go and not think for a moment that its CS department is not strong enough. Aside from having specific programs in Silicon Valley, recent articles make clear that Duke does very well on a per capita basis and is well regarded in SV. Brown also is highly regarded and places well. So, as with many threads, commentators are drawing absurdly fine distinctions between outstanding departments when, in the long run, there are no meaningful distinctions and fit is the best reason to choose. Duke in particular, if it matters, is growing key AI and machine learning research areas in conjunction with Stanford and MIT and combining that with its best in the world statistics department. Does that mean it is better than Brown’s great CS program, no, just that both are going to meet even a super high performing undergradute’s intellectual needs and professional goals.

13

OP - I meant coast, not cost. Sorry! You have a hard decision to make but again, you will be successful at any of these schools. Maybe start giving a numeric value to your pros/cons list? For example, on a scale of 1 - 10, how important is class size? Do that for each item you listed and then total them up and see what school ends up with the most “points”.

14

This “do you really want to live in the south” thing is often used as a scare tactic by people who can’t make a credible case for why a student should attend their preferred school over Duke. Durham is a beautiful, vibrant city and the triangle is filled with great opportunities. In fact, the area is one of the finalists for Amazon’s new HQ.

What is Duke’s appeal? It is a very well rounded university with excellent graduate school/professional placement and a loyal alumni network. I don’t see what Brown gives you. Berkeley is clearly better for CS. Duke is clearly better for finance.

15

Berkeley if I had to choose

16

This is really such a matter of fit.

I went to Duke, D will be going to Brown, and we both loved Berkeley when we visited for a 2 day program. Although Duke is located in the South, most of the kids come from the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic, California and Florida. Duke does not feel like a Southern school and even though it’s not located in a major city, there is constantly a lot going on with incredible speakers from all over the world and all sorts of research opportunities. After taking the college tour, my D’s comment was “mom, there is so much going on there, it feels like they are throwing opportunities at you.” FWIW, Melinda Gates went to Duke and has donated a lot of money there. Duke is constantly is reaching out to its Alumni to create internships and all sorts of learning opportunities for its students. Brown does as well: as a parent of a committed student I was already sent information requests about whether there was anything I could contribute career-wise, and I know an alum who mentors kids in her industry. Both Brown and Duke are well represented in Silicon Valley.

I think of the social life at Brown and Berkeley being similar. Both are very collaborative places and the kids are very liberal and accepting. Duke has more social striation and Greek life can be important. Berkeley ultimately came off our list because we were concerned about the huge class sizes and ability to get the classes you want. I also felt that the advising programs at Brown and Duke were better. If we were in-state for Berkeley, my D would have gone there, but I just couldn’t see paying the out of state price when I think you get less services than you do at the privates.

But these were our impressions. Hopefully others can give you theirs too so you can get a better feel about if there’s a consistent theme. Good luck, and you really can’t go wrong. Once you choose, don’t look back, only look forward.

17

We are not you and cannot make the choice for you. Do you want to live on the East Coast or the West Coast? If the East Cost, north or south? Do you want to live in an environment that has you near Silicon Valley or not? The good news is you really can’t go wrong on the education front. I’d be cautious of CS ranking placement for undergraduate studies. My son fell into that trap, and found out that at the undergraduate level it is either good school or not good school. For your choices nobody would argue which category these three fall. You live in MA, do you want to see your home often during the school year, either you visiting home or home visiting you? Do you like the NE and could live nowhere else? Are you open to a new adventure? Notice, none of my questions have to do with academics, it is all about what makes you you.

18

I have nothing specific to add about the three schools as although different personalities and locations they are all outstanding schools and programs. The OP did make a reference to graduating in three years. That would not be likely at any of these schools or many other schools. Even if all required courses are completed in three years, many schools require 4 years of attendance and tuition payments. Not all eight semesters are required to be on campus attendance allowing for internships, semester abroad, exchange programs at other schools, etc.

19

Berkeley can be done in 3 years. Lots of kids do and the university widely accepts AP credit unlike private colleges. they are sensitive to the community college kids who transfer in and others who financially need to get it done in 3 years. My Berkeley student took summer classes and with AP could have been done in 3 years. I told her to take the extra year as she’ll be working the rest of her life.

20

Graduating in 3 years isn’t a consideration for me, much less a priority.