@privatebanker Sorry, what I meant to say is that there are so many students at Berkeley and relatively few teachers that I fear not getting the help I need.
…which is probably true.
graduate from UCB, Duke, or Brown with a 4.0 and you’ll write your own ticket to SV or anywhere. Of course graduating with a 4.0 is easier at Brown then Duke then UCB.
It’s something to consider, yes. The UCs are a very sink-or-swim environment, and that holds especially true for the massively popular departments like CS. The courses in the intro CS sequence at Berkeley this year enrolled 1200-1400 undergrads each this spring – that’s 75% of Brown’s entire freshman class in a single lecture hall!* A go-getter willing to go after resources and opportunities aggressively will do well at a large research university, whereas a shrinking violet may not.
You said you liked Berkeley. Have you visited Brown and Duke?
*For comparison, the intro CS courses at Brown and Duke enrolled 150-180 students this year. Certainly not small, but a great deal smaller than Berkeley. Some would argue that once you get above 60 or so students in a lecture hall, the number of students in a lecture is inconsequential. Not sure I agree, but YMMV. You should compare the size of upper-level courses as well.
https://classes.berkeley.edu/
https://cab.brown.edu/
http://soc.siss.duke.edu/psp/CSSOC01/EMPLOYEE/SA/h/?tab=DEFAULT
I hate relying on anecdotal evidence but one of my best friends had a very hard time at Berkeley. He was a casualty of the sink or swim environment. In fact, he doesn’t have a single professor that he can approach for a letter of recommendation. He might be an outlier but he was a brilliant student who picked Berkeley over some very good LACs (not WASP) and I can’t help but think that he’d have done better somewhere else. He feels the same way unfortunately.
I know I was joshing a bit. I think you will be fine. Part of college is gaining independence and skills for your adult life. I am sure they have good resources at cal. The other two are outstanding. But I do know once you out the school tee shirt on and announce to the world where you are going you will feel great relief and excitement. It is easy to create anxiety around this and it isn’t necessary
Getting into the L&S cs major at Berkeley is very competitive. You need more than the minimum 3.3 GPA I believe. Look into this carefully before choosing Berkeley. Given that you have other good choices, I think this would make Berkeley a no go. Would you be happy waking up in your Junior year having to declare a math (or other) major because you didn’t get into CS?
It is still 3.3. https://eecs.berkeley.edu/academics/undergraduate/cs-ba
L&S CS requires a 3.3 GPA in CS 61A, 61B, 70. https://www.berkeleytime.com/grades/?course1=2321-all-all&course2=2323-all-all&course3=2327-all-all indicates that the percentage of students earning a B+ or higher is:
49% in CS 61A
59% in CS 61B
47% in CS 70
@rocket88 I think it’s definitely a risk; however, I’ve already taken CS for a full year at a local college.
Moreover, out of the data ucbalumnus kindly provided, around half of the UCB students get a B+, which is pretty significant. I’m sure the amount would be higher for students who are actually trying to be CS majors (many of the students in CS61A and CS61B are taking the class just to try CS out).
Finally, if I don’t do well in those classes, then maybe CS isn’t for me. I like CS, but it’s not like CS is the only thing I love. I also love applied math, finance, and entrepreneurship, so I can definitely go down one of those avenues (though I really hope I can become a CS major).
My concern still lies with the class sizes/attention, but most importantly the competition for clubs, jobs, and research that I won’t have to face as much at Brown or Duke.
My thinking is that if I can coast through Brown and Duke and still have a decent experience with a decent job (through alumni network), imagine how far I can get if I bring my go-getter personality and have a bunch of advice at Brown or Duke. If I eliminate Berkeley, the question is still Brown or Duke though.
But obviously, Berkeley really prepares me for the real world, both in its “golden standard” CS degree among SV recruiters and the way that my go-getting skills will be utilized and trained. I’ll meet so many top students (at CS) that I might be able to form a startup with or develop deep connections with, though it’ll definitely be harder to make these connections than a school like Brown or Duke.
Thank you, everybody, for all your help by the way. Your responses are really informing me, and I appreciate your continued help.
@Publisher I applied to CMU SCS (waitlisted tho, but I have lots of other great choices, so definitely not down about that)
Those who want to get a more beginner-level overview of CS would normally take CS 10. Prospective CS majors without computing experience are also suggested to take CS 10 before CS 61A. CS 61A is probably mostly EECS majors, prospective L&S CS majors, and prospective cognitive science majors, with probably a few from other intended majors who may find CS to be a useful complement.
Online class schedules can help you see how large CS and other class sizes are.
UCB had 557 L&S CS and 401 EECS students graduate in 2016-2017. Upper level EE courses are quite small, indicating that most EECS students emphasize CS. As a result, CS class sizes can be very large (over 1,000 for CS 61A), even for upper level courses (sometimes over 600).
However, while most other schools have smaller CS class sizes than UCB, the class sizes may not necessarily be small in an absolute sense (100-300 for some at Brown and Duke).
Note that some of the UCB CS course materials are available on the web:
CS 10: http://cs10.org
CS 61A: https://cs61a.org/
CS 61B: https://datastructur.es/
CS 70: http://www.eecs70.org/
If class size is a concern you may want to consider the Focus program at Duke. You are guaranteed as a freshman two classes that are small (less than 18 students I think). Please don’t hold me to it but check it out.
Yeah, the Focus program is definitely something I’d consider if I went to Duke.
FYI, This might be of interest, though its a little dated: http://www.businessinsider.com/schools-with-the-most-alumni-at-google-2015-10
https://tech.co/top-feeder-schools-attend-want-job-google-apple-facebook-2015-01
@jym626 Thank you for this! Though I fear it only takes size into account (which would be unfairly skewed towards berkeley), not percentage of undergrads at either school.
@Burrito12 -
Stanford’s UG size is only around 8K and it’s atop the lists. Dont worry about % of undergrad vs straight #. of employees.
At Duke you’d know your professors and they will know you by name. Duke is not as stressful as your other choices. Duke wants you happy. Your employment opportunities are better at the other schools because employers want people who have been through the wringer. However you will learn the same stuff at any of these schools.
The two schools you’ve chosen are at extremes.
Impersonal, stressful, job opportunities, crowded … personal, easy going, less tech known, preppy
I have visited both CS departments and know their pedigrees. Duke’s department is a shadow of Berkeley’s.
Given these two choices I’d actually go with Duke. Because I don’t like crowds and like smaller class sizes. The job thing can be overcome.
The sweet spot here is GaTech. It’s half the size of Cal and twice the size of Duke, with the same CS resources and opportunities as Cal. It’s also cheaper than all of these and has twice the number of CS faculty.
University Size (in faculty)
Carnegie Mellon University 131 … CMU claims 140+ in info session
Georgia Institute of Technology 93 … GT claims ~130 in info season
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 80
University of California - Irvine 61
University of Maryland - College Park 60
University of Michigan 59
Northwestern University 59
University of California - San Diego 57
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 57
University of California - Berkeley 54 … no extra claims
University of Southern California 54
Duke University 52 … professor claimed ~30 in info session
Stanford University 52
Georgia tech has a higher student to teacher ratio than Berkeley haha, so I don’t think that solves my problems.
Any other thoughts will by highly appreciated!