Please help son

Parents Forum
1

<p>I saw Patsmom's post with all the helpful replies, and hoping that some of you will help us as well. Please?</p>

<p>Reach: UVA, UNC, Vanderbilt
Match: UF, U Miami, U Ga, Emory
Safety: ???
Wants to stay in the Southeast!</p>

<p>SATs best- Math 740, CR 650, W 680, essay 9
SAT II- Bio 730, Math II 640 (blech)
ECs- decent, I think- varsity sport 4 yrs with awards each year, music with awards, leadership (positions in student govt, honor society, other clubs) community & state leadership programs, worked in senate), community service-about 200 hrs, various.
4.5 W GPA
Hopes to bring up reading score in June and retake Math II next year.
Financial aid is important.
No URM
Also, how does one demonstrate interest? We've already gone through this with sibling and it seems the essays are pretty straightforward in what is asked and there isn't much room to slide in extraneous information.
With sibling (even higher scores, more sports, leadership, honors, etc) we were told he had the right stuff but wasn't "unique" enough (my reading between the lines) for his reaches. How do you get around THAT?</p>

2

<p>Your son has very good stats, especially his SATs/GPA. But his ECs are pretty much like every other dedicated student, nothing really screams "wow!"</p>

<p>here are some things that come to my mind when i think "unique"; but don't take my word for it, im just a student :P</p>

<p>-international travel/living abroad
-"different" family situation
-overcame health problem/dealt with family member with one</p>

<p>There are probably some others but i'm drawing a blank after those three. Maybe (if possible) your son could take a trip outside the US, and get some sort of international experience that way. Spain, or Portugal, or just somewhere that isn't England (which isn't THAT different from the US when you think about it.).</p>

<p>Or maybe he could help out with hurricane katrina issues over the summer, since i'm assuming that since you're in the SE, he would be able to possibly go to Louisiana. Thats just my 2 cents. But when it comes to him being unique, think ofthings that will separate him from thousands of other applicants, and draw more attention in his direction.</p>

3

<p>Doubleplay, I'll jump in. I'll post more later but for now move Emory to a reach. I agree with the retake of SATII, that is clearly an aberration. Also, there is much benefit to practicing the SAT essay. Read the blurbs on how it is graded. Formula essays, and they don't have to be true and the facts don't have to be correct. Throw some vocab in for good measure. </p>

<p>Now for the important part - what the heck are you talking about?
[quote]
it seems the essays are pretty straightforward in what is asked and there isn't much room to slide in extraneous information.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LOL. The essays prompts are a springboard . You can do any dive you want. Please don't think there is a right answer or response, nothing could be further from the truth. Sometimes you have a great topic appear to you. Other times it takes brainstorming. Pick the prompt apart. Write about some element , compare and contrast what they are asking for with what you want to talk about, if you don't know what the answer is answer the question that their prompt invokes in you. Personalize, show don't tell. </p>

<p>Everybody needs to stop thinking about grandiose "change the world" essays. Essays aren't lists of ec's you've done. That's your brag sheet. Essays are about you. Period. Whatever they ask, it's about you! Why Rhodes? They know everything about Rhodes, they are concentrating on why Rhodes for YOU? How are you going to take advantage of what they offer? How are you going to "wear" Rhodes? How are you going to "eat" Rhodes? How are you going to "breathe" Rhodes? "Feel" Rhodes? They want to know that you have placed yourself in Rhodes and have thought about what it is like to live Rhodes. Describe your out of body experience at Rhodes, and make it real. </p>

<p>I am going to continue to preach that each child is unique. Each (high) stat kid has something to say that will tempt the admissions folks (even at the most selective college). It does not have to be world class accomplishments. It does not have to be a hook. It can simply be that your kid can communicate their passion for learning without once mentioning passion or learning, by simply describing what they saw and what they did in response to what they saw. It teaches the adcom about what they will do when facing similar stimuli at Yale, or wherever. </p>

<p>It is a time to trust yourself, that if you show them who you are people will like you. They (adcoms) sniff out artifice an most essays I read are artifice. Trying to make themselves seem something they are not, something they want to be, something they have been told they should be. Show them who you are. </p>

<p>Don't tell them anything. They don't care about you. Yet. If they don't feel you coming through the pages of your app they will never care about you. It is time to put it out there. If they like you, fine and if they don't that's fine , too. (It has to be fine, if not then you are not putting yourself out there enough because you fear rejection.) If they sense you are saying something for the purposes of getting in they will reject you. I am confident I am right about this.</p>

4

<p>To build on Curm's suggestions re: essays.</p>

<p>Unless you are applying to Chicago, the prompts tend to be pretty standard: an important event in your life; someone who's influenced you; your favorite activity, what you've read recently, and so on.</p>

<p>You can use them as a springboard to express your passion or interest. For example, if you are writing about a favorite teacher, you can point out your interest in the field of study. You don't need to write about a life-changing event (how many are there in a 17-year old's life?) My S wrote about some skits he and chums performed at the end of summer camp; another essay was about the trials and tribulations of building something for a local competition (not state or national). I read a great essay by a student poster on CC about jogging. It was full of humorous comments that made me smile. Yet another student essay was about how a particular food evoked memories of her grandmother. </p>

<p>Unless your child applies to large state unis where admission is nearly totally numbers-driven, spend a lot of time on the essay. Make it reveal your child's personality in a way that a laundry list of ECs and statistics cannot.</p>

5

<p>Thanks to everyone.
As far as summer plans- he's taken on a job and is also working out with his team (required for his sport). I know it's an excuse but we can't afford to send him out of the country- he had the opportunity but the cost was prohibitive. We're a hard working, somewhat boring family putting every dime into education, basically. Sometimes I wonder if that lack of sophistication/worldliness came through on my older's applications.
The ESSAYS- that was probably the hardest thing for my older one. Both are very practical, logical, tough-nuts-to-crack boys. Not very gushy. Good writers, technically speaking, but not really creative. So you get the drift. Also very independent. This is going to be tough.
I'll get back later- thanks so much for the help!</p>

6

<p>Doubleplay. My dad was an English professor at Stanford for years. As such, he taught freshman english many times. I remember he told me that the engineers, the practical types, were either the best writers or the worst writers. What he meant was that they never suffered from the overwrought, too many big words problem. So when they did find something they WANTED to write about, they would write very clearly and concretely and it was great to read.</p>

<p>Creative isn't necessary for good writing. Authenticity usually is. The creative types are just those whose imagination is so vivid to them that their creativity is authentic. If I am making sense....</p>

<p>So for your boys, the edict, "Write what you know" is really critical.</p>

7

<p>Never think that foreign travel will make your child unique, so do not lay that guilt trip on yourself. A good essay can be written about what it's like working at McDonald's or bagging grocery, It's the personal angle that is important. What was observed? what feelings did it elicit? That kind of things.</p>

8

<p>Thanks to everyone for the kindness. Let's assume for the moment that the scores don't move much and that the essays will be adequate but not overwheming. What would be some good safeties/matches in the southeast (intended study is probably premed/science/maybe business)?
Curmugeon I sent you some examples, if you get the chance to look at them. Maybe you can give input that will help #2.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
Also, how does one demonstrate interest?

[/quote]
At the schools sensitive to demonstrated interest, it is all about Showing Them The Love. :D</p>

<p>You will see that these schools may ask on their app (or their CommonApp supplement) for you to check off which of the following you have done: visited campus, attended tour, attended info session, had an interview, etc. etc. It's important to be able to check some of these off.</p>

<p>For these schools, you want the "Why X school" essay to show that you have dug a little deeper than the info session and page 1 of the website to show that there is something specific about the school which fits you.</p>

<p>Which schools are "sensitive to demonstrated interest?" IMO, it's the schools that top students tend to use as safeties. These schools are sensitive to their yield (% of accepted students who actually decided to attend). So, they may reject a supremely qualified kid who has never visited the school and shows on his application that he is applying to 10 other schools - 8 ivies, MIT and Stanford. They figure they're just an afterthought safety school that the kid has no interest in attending. Waste of their time to accept him and a downer for their yield stat to boot.</p>

<p>IMO, you either don't answer the question about where else you applied or answer it partially (if needed) to your own advantage: nothing's to say you've necessarily made a final decision as to where you will apply when you fill out this particular application, so <em>if</em> you choose to answer it at all, list other schools you are applying to (or considering) which are at the same or lower level of selectivity as this one as well as one or more of the reach schools.</p>

10

<p>Showing interest is about finding what makes the school unique among many similar schools and linking that to your interests and talents-- could be particular academic programs, features of the location, or people you spoke to when visiting campus who made you feel "really at home" or inspired you.</p>

<p>marite is absolutely right about essays --any experience has the potential for a great essay--many dull and boring things that are utterly conventional can be said about foreign travel. Think of all the great ideas Henry David Thoreau had just living in a wooden hut next to a pond--six miles form his ordinary residence. Or Emily Dickinson who scarcely left her home in Amherst. (no, it's not necessaryto be from Massachusetts to do this!)</p>

<p>From Emily Dickinson:</p>

<p>TO make a prairie it takes a clover and one bee,—<br>
One clover, and a bee,<br>
And revery.
The revery alone will do<br>
If bees are few.</p>

11

<p>How about Wake Forest as a match, maybe safety in the Southeast? I know of several kids who have gone there and they LOVE it......I think they even let kids apply ED the end of Junior year if they want, parent of attending kid told me that....not even sure if it is true.....</p>

<p>Also, my math leaning son wrote one of his essays about getting first tracks skiing ... he was a ski instructor, so his only chance to ski hard on his own was first tracks.....he wrote about the "regulars" who were all there early waiting for the lift to start etc etc...the love of snow, the crystals.... Alumother is correct; kids should write what they know, write what they love..... frankly I am not a big fan of the life changing event essays.... I prefer the glimpse into the kid via something they do daily or often, or just something they really like to give the reader a more intimate, humane introduction to the kid..... just my opinion....</p>

12

<p>"With sibling (even higher scores, more sports, leadership, honors, etc) we were told he had the right stuff but wasn't "unique" enough (my reading between the lines) for his reaches. How do you get around THAT?"</p>

<p>This was my nephew. He's a great kid - great grades, great scores and perfectly reasonable ECs. But he was competing against kids who were Intel semifinalists, or who'd started their own business, or their own charity. When I think of stand out ECs that's what I think of. Luckily I think you can make even pretty ordinary activities special. On some other thread Curmudgeon (I think) had a great example of how his daughter saw a need for translation cards for non-English speakers at the hospital where she was volunteering. She took the initiative to make an ordinary volunteer job extraordinary.</p>

13

<p>OK, thanks for all the input. So far we've got:</p>

<p>Reach: UVA, UNC, Vanderbilt, Emory
Match: UF, U Miami, U Ga, Wake Forest
Safety: ???
Wants to stay in the Southeast!</p>

<p>Is Wake really a safety?</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
Financial aid is important.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You have listed a number of public schools; UVA, UNC, UF,U Ga</p>

<p>With the possible exception of the state that you live in, applying as an out of state applicant is not a financial saftey shool nor is it a financially feasible option for your family unless you are :</p>

<p>Getting recruited for a sport that carries a hefty athletic scholarship
At the top of the applicant pool in getting accepted to the hnors college with major merit money.</p>

<p>Curmie can give you some excellent advice, the best being cast a wide net of schools especially if money is important. This means your son may have to look a little (or maybe a lot) beyond the southeast region.</p>

15

<p>Before I get to making any school suggestions, what do you mean by FA? Need based aid at 100% of demonstrated need schools? or merit aid because no need or insufficient need but some need will be demonstrated? (We were in the insufficient but some need will be demonstrated category and preferential packaging at some need and primarily need based schools was very appealing. Very generous. But this only works where some need is found. If your EFC is $92K, this won't help.:))</p>

16

<p>About out of state publics- what we found with oldest was that we could add about 10K, give or take, to go outside. So we're looking at around 15K in state vs. 25K OOS. As far as privates, we found that they'd give anywhere from 10 to 20K, which meant we'd still end up paying about the same as going OOS public. We'd be willing to eat beenie weenies to go to a good OOS public.</p>

17

<p>doubleplay, sorry I'm so dense but what does this mean?
[quote]
As far as privates, we found that they'd give anywhere from 10 to 20K

[/quote]
Whose giving what? Merit aid? Need based aid grants? Need based aid total packages including loans and workstudy?</p>

<p>And anyway, who said anything about weenies with those beans? I think that's a little optimistic.;)</p>

18

<p>What I meant was when it was all said and done, the out of pocket amount (EFC you could say)- and I'm talking about the schools my oldest applied to- ended up being the same for the privates as the OOS publics (around 25K). He wasn't NMF or val or anything like that, so the offers were lower I guess (averaging around 10K). Although our in state public university is a sweet deal. Bottom line--- 20-25K is our max out of pocket for number2, so going to some reach private that isn't going to offer anything other than the privilege of attendance is not an option.
Am I making sense? frazzled.</p>

19

<p>Wake does let students apply after junior year. My son applied in July and was accepted by Sept. Sure made senior year calmer knowing where he was headed. Don't know your financial situation but son says that most students he meets there are getting monies of one kind or another. However, merit applications do not go in until (if I remember right) around Christmas.</p>

20

<p>I'm sorry, but I think Wake might be a high match for your son, I really wouldn't consider it a safety. Their merit aid is really hard to come by unless your scores are very high.</p>