<p>Hey, guys, I'm an international student from China. I'm facing a dilemma right now. I've been admitted by Kenyon with half aid. But I'm also 90% sure that I'll be admitted by Wesleyan University but with no aid. I'm definitely plan to go to graduate school in the U.S. So academically, how different are these two schools? And what about student culture? I'm very anxious for your answers! Thanks:)</p>
<p>These are both fine schools. Kenyon is very small (even for a liberal arts college); its location is relatively isolated. Wesleyan’s larger size and location (fairly close to NY, Boston, Hartford and New Haven) may have advantages for you. </p>
<p>Compared to other LACs, Wesleyan has strong science programs. It spends more money on research than any other LAC in the USA. This fact, combined with its location, may mean better opportunities for work or research internships at Wesleyan.</p>
<p>Kenyon is known for its strong English and writing programs. Its campus is probably one of the most beautiful (I’ve never visited so I’m judging from pictures and reputation). Wesleyan’s campus is about average or a little better, in my opinion, and the surrounding town (Middletown) is not too desirable.</p>
<p>If the costs were equal, then especially for a science major, I’d lean toward Wesleyan. However, especially for a Humanities major, Kenyon at half price is a very good bargain. Either school can prepare you well for graduate school.</p>
<p>Wesleyan might have better opportunities to teach Chinese … in case that would make a difference with costs. Contact the Chinese/Asian Studies departments.</p>
<p>Thanks for your reply, tk21769. I’m very interested in social work, community services and areas like sociology, government etc. So according to your point of view, Kenyon seems like a better choice for me. Would you please share your opinions about these two schools (opportunities, future development, alumni network etc.) in this field? Thanks.</p>
<p>My sister is a Kenyon graduate and it’s one of the most beautiful campuses I’ve seen. Both Wesleyan and Kenyon grads can go on to Ivy or top tier schools for graduate work (well respected schools). Kenyon is very isolated, but it has a strong community feel and they have loads of activities/clubs/sports to take part in. If the cost is that significant between the two (half the cost at Kenyon is fantastic!), I would most definitely tell you to go to Kenyon and save your money for grad school which you will need to your MA for social work.</p>
<p>Thanks for your reply, jkiwmom. You know, in China, U.S News ranking affects a lot of our impression on the school. As Wesleyan ranks 11, Kenyon 33, it seems that Wesleyan is much better than Kenyon in academics. I wonder how you feel about it? Are there really that large a gap between these schools’ academics?</p>
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<p>Sorry, but I cannot comment about Kenyon v. Wesleyan at that level of detail for career goals in a specific field. Few people could. However, I do agree with jkiwmom’s points. Yes, both Kenyon and Wesleyan grads can go on to top grad schools in sociology or related fields. So I recommend you save your family’s money for that and pick Kenyon at half price.</p>
<p>US News rankings are a useful benchmark, but don’t be overly influenced by relatively small differences. Understand that there are >3000 colleges & universities in the USA, so #33 is still very good. All the top 30 or 40 American liberal arts colleges offer pretty much the same educational product, with relatively small differences in selectivity and a few other factors. Your grad school reputation will matter a bit more. Furthermore, it’s not like other countries where the #1 student necessarily goes to the #1 school. Some of the best students will pick the #30 or #40 school just because of cost or location. President Obama (our most famous Community Organizer) started out at #36 Occidental College … but probably more people associate him with Harvard Law, his graduate school.</p>
<p>Here’s my marginally-informed impressions, gleaned only from following the college process through three kids, none of whom attended either of these two schools:</p>
<p>“So academically, how different are these two schools?”
" it seems that Wesleyan is much better than Kenyon in academics. I wonder how you feel about it? Are there really that large a gap between these schools’ academics? "</p>
<p>The relative level of the students bodies are IMO best assessed by comparing the SAT midranges. They are what they are. There may be some difference in the level of courses accordingly. Or there may not be. Who can really tell, without having attended or taught at both, or unless someone’s job was assessing their candidates for grad school or employment? Around here (NYC suburbs), IMO, Kenyon would often be a third or fourth choice for someone for whom Wesleyan was a first or second choice. But it’s still considered a good school.</p>
<p>“And what about student culture?”
There will be much overlap, however Wesleyan will have a greater proportion of students interested in political activism, and a somewhat higher percentage of “hipsters”.
Kenyon’s student body will also be liberal, but somewhat tamer, overall, than Wesleyan’s. I think. </p>
<p>“I’m very interested in social work, community services and areas like sociology, government etc. So according to your point of view, Kenyon seems like a better choice for me.”</p>
<p>This does not follow, the expressed views mentioned Kenyon’s English program, and Wesleyan’s sciences, nobody said anything about the fields you cited. Given its “help the world” demeanor, my guess is Wesleyan is very good for the areas that interest you.
Possibly better. Suggest you should go to the registrar’s list of coures offered for the last two semesters, for both schools, and see who offers the most courses in areas that interest you. As one measure. And check the colleges’ websites to see who talks most about stuff of interest, and student’s subsequent plans. Maybe you will find one has particularly relevant internship relationships, or something. I don’t know, but it’s worth checking.</p>
<p>“Would you please share your opinions about these two schools (opportunities, future development, alumni network etc.) in this field?”</p>
<p>As I said, you need to do more homework for these fields particularly. More generally, since both schools are small, their alumni networks are small. Wesleyan is well known, and highly regarded, in the Northeast, and the West coast also I believe. It is also larger. Kenyon is known also, but possibly future destinations, and alums may be more often in the midwest than in Wesleyan’s case. </p>
<p>My D1 went to a different LAC in Ohio, and I was quite surprised when I looked at their list of future grad program destinations to see how tilted it was towards midwestern grad schools. We hadn’t thought about that before she matriculated there. It could be because more of the students are from there, but it may also be where their prof’s recommendations have more clout. I don’t know. But it makes sense that if Kenyon was going to have some social work internship thing, it will be with a program in Ohio, not in the Northeast. And if Wesleyan had one, it would not be with a program in Ohio. </p>
<p>So maybe the school attended could have some influence on where you wind up subsequently, and how much alumni presence there will be wherever you wind up. And then again, maybe not.</p>
<p>Personally, I don’t see Wesleyan and Kenyon of such a large academic difference that it’s worth turning down so much merit aid from Kenyon to go to Wesleyan. I do not think that there would be a very big difference in your chances of getting into good grad schools if you went to Wesleyan over Kenyon. </p>
<p>How’s your money situation? Have your parents said they’d be willing to pay much more for you to go to Wesleyan than they would pay for you to go to Kenyon?</p>
<p>An acceptance to Kenyon must have been ED (or ED II), no? You are required to withdraw your Wesleyan application.</p>
<p>For your stated academic interests and especially considering you’re planning to apply to grad school, go to whatever school offers you the best scholarship/FA package. </p>
<p>You do not want to be burdened by heavy undergrad debt…especially when you’re most likely going to have to pay for that Masters in Social Work based on my classmates/friends’ experiences. </p>
<p>You don’t want to be like many high school classmates who are still paying off their undergrad loans even 10 years out of undergrad because they decided on greater prestige vs. no debt…or just “cooler school” vs “not as cool of a school”…especially considering your grad school plans. </p>
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<p>As someone who attended the same LAC as one of Monydad’s daughters(Oberlin), it is mostly because many found the best fit in Midwestern graduate programs. Moreover, there are Midwestern grad programs which are academic peers of their coastal/Ivy counterparts such as UChicago, UMich-Ann Arbor, and Northwestern. </p>
<p>While schools like Kenyon or Oberlin may not necessarily be household names to your average joe and are sometimes disdained by those obsessed by Northeast LAC/Ivy prestige, they are both well-respected in academia and professional grad schools all over based on my classmates experiences and my conversations with academics at elite universities…including some Ivies like Harvard. </p>
<p>They are even well-respected internationally based on conversations I’ve had with university faculty members in China and Europe. One American-born Oxford faculty member even said that LACs like Oberlin and Kenyon offer an education that is the closest thing American colleges offer to the highly personalized tutorial system used at his university. </p>
<p>There must be a reason why several of my undergrad classmates ended up in elite grad programs all across the US of A…including Harvard for those who must have an Ivy. In any event, LACs like Kenyon and Oberlin are far from the regional or academic backwater that is sometimes implied by some on CC…</p>
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<p>“…it is mostly because many found the best fit in Midwestern graduate programs.”</p>
<p>I have a feeling that somehow the students at Wesleyan find their best fit to not be in Midwestern graduate programs, to a proportionally greater extent, despite having similar academic profiles (other than somewhat higher incoming academic credentials as a whole) that would seem to dictate greatly overlapping academic fit preferences. However I do not have their destination list to compare, so this is just my suspicion.</p>
<p>“…they are both well-respected in academia and professional grad schools all over based on my classmates experiences and my conversations with academics at elite universities…including some Ivies like Harvard.”</p>
<p>I made reference to D1s alma mater regarding possible analogy with subsequent destination locales. It is also located in Ohio, hence my geographic analogy, however in other respects it is not topic of this thread. It is indeed well respected in academia, however Kenyon’s reputation and track record as a source for future PhDs is not completely identical, so they should not be lumped together for that purpose. As indication, US News’ surveys of peer assessment, etc. results in “academic reputation index” which is lower for Kenyon than for D1s alma mater. So let’s not lump together oranges and clementines.
They are different schools.</p>
<p>You repeatedly refer to these conversations you have, regarding seemingly every topic, with seemingly thousands of authorities. Please detail each and every one of your specific conversations, regarding Kenyon specifically, on this exact topic, and with who specifically. Or actually don’t, I’ll spare you, and us, the pain. But please recognize these claims do not actually enhance the credibility of your personal opinions, it actually detracts from them IMO.</p>
<p>“,and are sometimes disdained by those obsessed by Northeast LAC/Ivy prestige,”</p>
<p>I for one have never heard either of these schools disdained, on academic grounds, by anyone. D1s alma mater (OT) gets slammed occasionally over social and political orientation, which are much like Wesleyan’s actually.But not for academics, anyplace that I’ve heard. And besides, its academic reputation is OT here. OP did not apply there.
Nobody here slams Kenyon for anything, that I’ve ever heard.</p>
<p>Though if that claim is actually true, that some people, possibly in high places, in the northeast will treat a Kenyon degree with disdain, that might be something for OP to consider as well. OP might want to wind up in the Northeast, and would not want his/her credential to be undervalued or considered with disdain. But I have never witnessed such.</p>
<p>I don’t think people here undervalue Kenyon, many here just prefer similar schools that are in different locations. Kenyon has a good reputation here. Just not as good as Wesleyan’s reputation here. There’s no basis to say that it is undervalued, by most objective measures people have come up with, it rates lower than Wesleyan. This was even more the case when I was looking at colleges myself.
And more people prefer Wesleyan’s location, I would guess.</p>
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<p>I was addressing academic reputation among academics because the OP stated he/she wanted to go on to grad school. For grad school admissions, faculty will be taking a greater and a more direct part in the process…especially in the fields the OP is looking to go into…so it is a factor to consider. </p>
<p>As for Ivy prestige/NE LAC bias, I was trying to address both the common biases I’ve experienced living in the NE as well as the possible biases the OP probably faced back in China. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, there is a bit of an anti-LAC bias among many Chinese abroad unless they work as faculty/staff in universities, music/creative arts, spent some time in the US, and/or are unusually open-minded like my own parents. </p>
<p>While I was pleasantly surprised to not have experienced this bias during my 3 month study-abroad in China where I did make an effort to randomly chat with a cross-section of people in my area, that wasn’t the experience of other fellow LAC alum friends. The commonplace response they experienced was a curt “That’s nice”…even those who attended Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore. Granted, that was in the late '90s and I heard and hope the average Chinese person is much more open-minded these days. However, judging by conversations with many incoming Chinese(From both Chinas and SE Asia) grad/undergrad students and a few dates with some…there’s still a long way to go.</p>
<p>I have to echo MONYDad’s comments regarding the OP’s academic interest in Sociology. In that respect, the very thing that most people slam Wesleyan’s home base of Middletown CT for, the presence of --dare I say, it – poor people within walking distance of the college, actually turns into an advantage. There are ample opportunities to tutor and work with community action groups without having to travel to a big city:</p>
<p>[Office</a> of Community Service - Wesleyan University](<a href=“http://www.wesleyan.edu/ocs/lcsa.htt]Office”>http://www.wesleyan.edu/ocs/lcsa.htt)
[Green</a> Street Arts Center - Wesleyan University](<a href=“http://www.wesleyan.edu/greenstreet/]Green”>About, Green Street Arts Center - Wesleyan University)
[Wesleyan</a> University - Upward Bound](<a href=“http://www.wesleyan.edu/upwardbound/]Wesleyan”>Welcome, Upward Bound & Upward Bound Math-Science - Wesleyan University)</p>
<p>Here’s a research paper on pre-school education in Middltown, co-authored by four Wesleyan students:
<a href=“http://frontpage.wesleyan.edu/slc/comm_res/07%20MSRC%20Final%20Report,%20part%202.pdf[/url]”>http://frontpage.wesleyan.edu/slc/comm_res/07%20MSRC%20Final%20Report,%20part%202.pdf</a></p>
<p>Half off at Kenyon is a pretty good offer. I took my daughter on a visit there. The visit was interesting. The campus seems engaged and the faculty is involved with the students. It is very isolated. Between there and Columbus (about an hour away) there isn’t much to do. I have a cousin at Wesleyan who loves it. I would agree that Weslayan is artsier and more liberal than Kenyon. As far as midwestern graduate schools go, many of the top social work schools are in the midwest.</p>