Please settle a debate DH and I are having over how useful having a "talent"is in admissions.

Applying to College
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Honestly, no adcom is going to care about Martha Graham vs. Horton vs. other schools/techniques/styles. For competitive college dance programs, perhaps the dance director or department head will care, but admissions will not.

Plenty of young dancers across the country are trained in modern/contemporary dance. Like ballet, it really isn’t a rare thing at all. And yes, many, many of them are good students, too. Those traits dancers need to be good dancersoften carries over and makes them high achieving students as well.

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I think that most of us who have seen our S/D get into elite institutions would agree that being very good at something is a real asset in admissions. I know my own DD was very good at an EC but knew she would never pursue it in college, and so far she hasn’t and I’m pretty sure, won’t.

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I don’t expect adcoms to know the difference between classical modern training and competition dance schools like Abby Lee Miller’s, but dance dept heads will know the difference the same way they will know the difference if a ballet student has trained at ABT or SAB vs Miss Mary’s School of Dance located in a strip mall.We’re talking about colleges that accept arts supplements that go to dept heads who then make recommendations to the admissions office.

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@citimama9 – I am not sure what, if any, colleges have arts supplements viewed by department heads or faculty.

Here’s what Barnard says:

From: https://www.barnard.edu/sites/default/files/submitting_supplementary_materials_0.pdf

I’ve cited Barnard simply because it is my daughter’s alma mater and I am familiar with their dance offerings … and I know that Barnard seems to love ballet dancers and look at them favorably during the admission process … but the point is that no one outside of admissions is looking at these supplements. I personally am not aware of particular colleges that follow a different approach-- there may very well be some, but it would be a mistake to assume that is a common practice. Arts supplements are not generally meant as replacement for auditions… and for a non-major, why would the quality of dance ability or training matter?

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As an aside, some schools specifically asked us not to send any additional supplements unless it was specifically related to the students intended major.

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@momofsenior1 I guess that depends on the school. The schools on our S19’s list say to send any supplement that you think adds to you application. The only caveat I’ve read when researching is that you don’t send supplements unless they are very strong. Our S19 will not major in studio art but he’s pretty talented and has won awards and been chosen for teen art shows in our major metropolitan area. He will submit a portfolio to flush out his EC profile. Most of the schools on his list are LACs so maybe they are more willing to look at supplements.

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@calmom “why would the quality of training matter?”

I think it matters a lot. It says a lot about the candidate. There’s a difference between a tennis player who takes lessons for fun and one who is ranked at USTA. There’s a difference between someone who takes art lessons at the YMCA and one that takes them at the Art Institute of Chicago. Same thing with dance. There’s a different kind of commitment level and achievement.

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I think how art supplements are handled varies widely by institution. Finding out what particular schools want and how they review supplements is just part of the research for kids who want to send in a supplement. In my daughter’s case, her top choice has art supplements reviewed by art/dance/music faculty.

@citymama9 My daughter is Graham trained as well. It’s a distinctive technique and after watching it for so many years, I find it to be instantly recognizable, even as a non-dancer.

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@calmom Bucknell and Richmond are two that come to mind. There are others

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For non-majors and non-recruited applicants, I agree with @calmom In the 10-15 minutes an application is summarized by an AO, a quick summary of ECs (e.g. art, dance, basketball, homeless shelter volunteer, etc.) is all that there is time for - the AO must also quickly summarize the essay, letters of rec, transcript, etc. Students do put how many hours per week they spend engaging in each EC so the AO will see that but I doubt they care (or have time) to compare the quality of the dance or art studio, esp when the student is not intending to major in it.

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Agree and I think this point made earlier bears repeating:

"in fact, from a yield protection perspective – you could undermine an application by overemphasizing the dance prowess. The college ad com has no way of knowing that your daughter isn’t simultaneously applying for top BFA programs with their school simply being a fallback in case she doesn’t get admitted to her dream program. "

Remember that when applications are being read that not only is the adcom reading through it quickly, they are also reading through it thinking a) what does this applicant bring to the school’s community and what will they add here b) is this applicant a good fit for our community and will they be happy here c) do we have a good chance of getting this applicant to matriculate if accepted.

To me, it is no different than a sport. A kid could be a wonderful fencer but if the school doesn’t have a competitive fencing team, it’s not going to be a huge deal for admissions because it doesn’t help the school that much. If the application is all about fencing, it’s possible that the application reader might think that a, b, and c don’t apply.

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@doschicos yes. That’s exactly the problem and the question being asked! If D spends most of her EC time dancing, is she limited to schools that have some sort of dance…especially if she’s looking at LACs? I think that might be the case. Larger schools probably won’t care but the smaller ones could easily say “what is she bringing here but dance and good grades?” That’s why it’s becoming important for our D21, at least, to try to find something else she enjoys that could be seen as something to bring to the community. Not easy with the dance schedule but I think it’s important so that she’s not limited.

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“That’s why it’s becoming important for our D21, at least, to try to find something else she enjoys that could be seen as something to bring to the community. Not easy with the dance schedule but I think it’s important so that she’s not limited.”

At some point it begs the question, does she cut back on her dance schedule to make room for other stuff with an eye to her sincere enjoyment and interest not just college admissions. Is it worthwhile spending 25-30 hours or more per your previous post on something she doesn’t want to continue with in college?

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@homerdog My daughter was a pre-professional ballet dancer with a demanding schedule. She also played an instrument at school. That was it. No community service, minimal “leadership.” She had good grades, good test scores, some regional academic awards, she wrote a good essay, and she’s a genuinely nice kid. She got into everywhere she applied and her list consisted mostly of LACs. I think that “dance and good grades” along with some evidence of good character is sufficient. At small schools, I truly believe that the personality that comes through in the essay is equally or more important than adding ECs to a child who is already overextended.

I have also heard AOs at college fairs comment on how much they appreciate ballet dancer applicants because they understand the grit, determination, and work ethic that is required to succeed in college.

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@doschicos I hear you. It’s what every dancer at her studio has to decide. They would have to leave that studio to dance fewer hours. No way to stay there. Most of them have been there since they were three or four years old and it’s very sad to leave. For years, they’ve all envisioned themselves leaving as seniors on a high note. Their directors are like their other mom and dad. It’s very hard to leave early. I’ve asked D a few times if she wants to do something else with her time and, even on the roughest days, she says no. She thinks she will regret it if she doesn’t stick it out.

@mamaedefamilia thanks for your story. Glad to hear of your D’s success!

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My D’s main essay, submitted to all the schools she applied to, focused on her leadership in her Acapella group.

D was actively involved throughout HS in student government, drama and choir. She was the lead in the HS musical and president of the school. She founded the HS’s first co-ed acappella group and ran it for 4 years. She made All State for voice and had a strong art portfolio as well. She had strong grades (top 5%) and was on the board of several clubs related to music and drama.

In her application D wanted to highlight that she was a talented singer and a strong leader. She wanted that to be the take away, her “label.”

She wrote her essay about acappella because she was able to imply that she was musically talented and was able to illustrate her leadership as she recounted her experience with the group. The essay started with her describing the group’s first meeting at our home and how frightening it was to face her peers and take charge. It ended with the last acappella meeting at our home and her mixed feelings as a graduating senior moving on and leaving the group’s future in the hands of others. In the middle were favorite accomplishments–singing at various venues, encouraging shy members to take on solos, mentoring others to lead the group.

They say “show don’t tell” in your essays and D’s essay did a great job of doing that. She did not commit to studying music or getting involved in acappella music in college in her essay. The essay was an excellent representation of how she spent a great deal of her time in HS and created an accurate representation of my D as a person.

She sent arts supplements at schools that accepted them (Barnard did not accept them at the time D applied.)

She applied for music scholarship where applicable. Some required her to major or minor, others required some vocal participation on campus, other schools had no requirements at all for talent scholarships.

In addition, she got a number of merit scholarships that were based on leadership and I’m sure her essay helped with those as well.

At an interview at Brandeis with admissions on campus, she was asked to show the website she created for the acappella group and the interviewer played clips of the group singing. It showed the group singing the Star Spangled Banner at a Staten Island Yankee game and singing at an assisted living. (She was accepted and received a $15K Dean’s merit scholarship without any obligation to commit to any EC’s or major on campus.)

So my suggestion is to have your children think about how involvement in the arts promoted their growth and involvement in HS. Then use that in their essays. I would also encourage them to think of how they can use dance or the arts for fund raising or for mentorship.

Good luck to all!

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@uskoolfish agreed. But almost all schools have music programs and multiple acapella groups. Not all schools have dance programs. Your daughter highlighted her awesome achievements and the schools had a place for her to continue in that vein if she chose to do that. They could see where she would fit. With dance, a student would be a little more limited or maybe not as successful at schools where they didn’t have a spot for her to dance or their dance program is just for fun.

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@homerdog

I also don’t believe there is a one-to-one correspondence going on in AO heads that runs something like this: “We don’t have a dance program so this person will bring nothing extra to our campus.” “Or, this person doesn’t want to major or minor in dance so they bring nothing to our campus.” I think they want to see that applicants have spent their time in HS productively and have developed a skill, talent, or interest in an activity that is meaningful to them. Whether it is directly applicable in the new environment may or may not be a deal breaker.

As a fellow dance parent (and with a kid in the class of 2021), I have followed your posts. Your kids sound like accomplished, hardworking, bright young people. Let them be their authentic selves and acceptances will come.

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@mamaedefamilia it’s quite possible I’m just overthinking this. :slight_smile:

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@homerdog D did not do acappella music or choir in college. She went to NYU for MT and obviously that was using her musical talent, but I think you are over-thinking.

At Muhlenberg, known for MT (but a non-audition acceptance), she received the maximum amount for merit aid. She sent them an art portfolio, auditioned on campus for acting and music scholarships and was asked to apply for a leadership award.

In the end, she was never even awarded any music and acting scholarship money because the leadership award and an art award were processed first and she hit the maximum amount they give for merit aid with those two awards. Her art portfolio was good, but her music and acting skills were much stronger and she was so much more involved in them. But the art department had processed her award first, giving her a nice scholarship even though it was not her main focus in HS. And perhaps she would have taken some art classes had she attended.

But mostly she was seen as a talented, creative student with leadership potential. And I do think that dance students can apply their skills in many ways on campus. Besides their appreciation of the arts in general and their creative thinking and background that can add unique perspective in many classes, most schools do have theatre programs and a dancer might be seen as someone who can choreograph or dance for that.

Remember that there are also a lot of student run groups and dancers can also be involved in forming a club, teaching classes, putting together a talent show for fund raising, etc.