@citymama9 – I am puzzled by your post #68. Bucknell & Richmond both offer dance merit scholarships which have specific requirements for submissions, including dance resumes & videos – and which are tied to requirements to major or minor in dance. But you wrote that your daughter “has absolutely no interest” in pursuing dance in college, and that she “absolutely refuses” to send a video or consider a dance minor. So what would be the point of even applying to those particular schools?
The point I was making is that for student who wants to move on from dance in college, listing dance as an EC or even submitting an arts supplement is not a wasted effort – but it’s not a hook or anything that gives the student a special edge either. It is part of the biographical info that helps the ad com know and remember the student. And it is also something that can be tied into a theme or essay – as I posted above, because of the life lessons learned from dance, or the cross-over of dance into other activies. So “what I learned from my years as a dancer” is certainly a potentially valuable source of essay-fodder.
Keep in mind that if a school does have a strong dance program and uses the offer of merit scholarships to draw in dancers… then the department is going to be seeing a LOT of dance videos from the scholarship applicants. So there’s a lot of competition and an arts supplement from someone who is not applying for the scholarship is not likely to stand out, and the fact that the student chooses not to seek the scholarship might also backfire and send the wrong message.
@homerdog – I think you are over-focused on the EC thing. Starting a new EC midway through high school is not necessarily going to do much for college admissions. And while I agree 100% with the points that @doschicos made as to what the college is looking for – that doesn’t mean that colleges that don’t have dance programs also are averse to admitting dancers. The point is to reframe the dance background focusing on personal qualities that relate to the applicant, or other interests of the applicant.
What does the student want to study in college? What does the student want the colleges to know about her personal qualities and character? Then… how does her past dedication to dance tie into that?
That’s why the quality of the dance training or level of talent of the dancer is not particularly important for the student who doesn’t plan to continue dance in college. Because not every kid has the option of attending an arts-focused high school; and not every kid has parents who can afford to pay fees at the best studio or finance summer intensives. Shifting away from studying dance also means shifting focus away from the dance and to the person. The student is no longer asking to be admitted because she dances well; she is resting her application on other qualities and may or may not opt to include information about her dance background as illustrative of those qualities.
I think @uskoolfish’s daughter approached her essay wisely. She framed herself as the leader and go-getter who also happened to sing acapella not just a singer. It’s the positioning of oneself in an application that has been talked about on other threads.
My nearly 100% cheerleading focused EC daughter is attending a school where the only cheer opportunity is on a competitive club team. She was a holistic review candidates, so it wasn’t her “stellar” grades (tongue in cheek) or the possibility that her high level cheer skills could benefit the school that opened the door; but, I would bet that it was her comittment, dedication, self-awareness/confidence, leadership and time management skills learned from cheer that did boost her application.
I don’t think a school that doesn’t have a dance program is necessarily looking at an all dance candidate and thinking “gosh this is not a place that is a good fit because she won’t have dance opportunities here let’s set that one aside”. I also think it is a shame that someone with high level skills, who doesn’t have a desire to continue their talent officially, would not want to be part if a program because they felt it was not up to snuff or beneath their skill. There is much to be learned from being a leader and maybe they ought to look at it as an opportunity to help others improve their skills and develop and enhance a program?
@calmom I mentioned Bucknell and Richmond in response to your post #63 where you wrote, " I am not sure what, if any, colleges have arts supplements viewed by department heads or faculty." I thought we had moved on from my original question. What we have been discussing is something different. My D probably won’t be sending anything in if there are commitments involved. If there are no strings attached she might submit a video. We’ll see.
Just because a person happens to be a talented dancer (or singer, or cheerleader, or whatever) does not mean that they want to be defined by that activity or continue it for life.
My daughter enjoyed her years as a dancer but she wanted to be more than that – and for her, college was a time to explore and develop her intellectual talents. And she wanted to be seen in that light: as someone who was smart and creative and had good ideas.
And why would any parent want to pay college-level tuition to send their child to train in an art they didn’t want to continue at a school that was not up to par with the student’s previous training? If the student doesn’t want to pursue dance because they would rather attend an academically challenging college that doesn’t happen to have a strong dance department… then why not move on? It’s not as if a smart, capable college student doesn’t have other valuable things to do with their time – from taking other academic courses, labs, internships, paid work, volunteer work, or participation in other activities.
I apologize if I was not clear in my previous post, I am not talking about sending your student to train in a subpar program (you are right that make absolutely no sense, lol) I am talking about students who attend a college they picked for academic reasons, who are not interested in attending a college to pursue their talent not going to said school to major in their talent. I think it is a shame to not participate in an extra curricular/recreational type activity or maybe minor because you feel you are “too good” for the program.
Which is the impression that I got from some posters.
Absolutely think it is perfectly fine to move on and leave it all behind. (Although, IMO and experience, it is nearly impossible for someone who has spent the past 12 years dedicated to a certain activity to just walk away and not at least keep a toe in the water be it, recreationally, teaching/coaching, judging etc.) For instance if Suzy picks College X because she wants to study Astrology and College X does not have a super spectacular dance program just a mediocre program filled with dancers who dance because they love to dance and suddenly in the middle of her sophomore year Suzy Q misses dancing and the companionship of fellow dancer but decided she won’t audition because well, she is much better than everyone else and it would be a let down. That would be a shame.
@labegg That’s my quote above and, while it looks awful when you copy and paste it, it’s the truth. Look at American Ballet Theater dance and then pull up Bowdoin’s dance company. They are literally walking around the stage. No one looks anything like a dancer. Our high school has a dance club and it’s kind of like Bowdoin’s - it’s for non-dancers. It’s super fun and kids love it but no one who does dance outside school would join. It’s a completely different thing. Just like our D21 can’t play tennis competitively, she’d love to hit the courts in college with some sort of intramural group that just likes to knock around the courts and have fun with it.
I didn’t really mean it as a slam on Bowdoin’s dance program…I was just trying to say it’s not for trained dancers. There would be no way for her to ‘teach’ these kids how to dance. Dance training takes years and years of standing at a barre. You can’t just teach people how to dance. That being said, I LOVE to dance and I would have been the type of untrained dancer who would have been all over Bowdoin’s dance group.
@homerdog I agree that sometimes highly trained performers might just partake in activities— for fun!
My D attended NYU as a Vocal Performance major (Musical Theatre specialization) and believe me had somewhat of an attitude about other MT programs and their level of training and talent. She thought that the drama program in our HS was better than 99% of the college productions she saw in LAC’s and non-audition theatre programs (and some audition ones.) Our HS is located near NYC where good training is very accessible and has lots of professional children in our HS cast with Broadway credits, many of whom went on to study MT at top programs.
But now, 6 years out of undergrad, D is back at NYU in Stern and pursuing her MBA. She has begun taking voice lessons again with her old NYU voice teacher now that she has more flexibility in her schedule. Her vocal skills are intact. Surprisingly, D agree to join Stern’s acappella group, student talent show and Stern Follies, something that initially surprised me given her usual attitude.
And she has loved it! Some of the students were much more talented than she expected and even those who weren’t, were willing to learn and put in their all. Participating in these EC’s gave her an opportunity to perform and to meet fellow students who appreciated the arts and weren’t afraid to try things.
Next year she has already been told that she can play Belle in full costume for the end of year Follies skit, and she can’t wait to reprieve the role she had as a HS senior! She will also be running the acappella group.
“I think it is a shame to not participate in an extra curricular/recreational type activity or maybe minor because you feel you are “too good” for the program.”
I disagree. Free time is limited. If you are going to feel frustrated or unchallenged participating in an activity that isn’t to your standards, taking a pass is a fair option. For an EC meeting a couple of hours per week, the dancer with years of training isn’t going to be able to make those just doing it for fun substantially or even somewhat better. Nor are many of these clubs or ECs formatted to allow a first year student to do so.
“Although, IMO and experience, it is nearly impossible for someone who has spent the past 12 years dedicated to a certain activity to just walk away and not at least keep a toe in the water be it”
In my experience, it happens all the time. Plenty of college kids give up activities they pursued in hight school and earlier - musical instruments, sports, etc.
I know a few tennis players who cannot wait to put down their racquet and move on. Same with soccer players. They cannot wait to have time to do other things.
In my experience, I have known several highly skilled cheerleaders, instrumentalist, soccer players, lacrosse players, dancers etc, who swore they were done at the end of HS and moving on to new pastures…who found they missed it afterall and have gone on to enjoy their talent in an intramural/club/casual setting or enjoyed teaching or coaching. My own kids among them! I am glad they didn’t feel it was beneath them to open their options and participate at a different level; they might have missed some marvelous opportunities that they have enjoyed. Guess it is a good thing too that all those people who have loads of experience and continue to pursue their passions in college are open to letting newbies give things a go too!
Well, I agree with @Homerdog – when a person has trained for years to learn how to do something really well… then it can be very frustrating and not at all appealing to be in a situation where the same thing is being done poorly. There is a joy in doing something difficult and doing it well in the company of others who also excel.
My daughter did take some dance classes in college – as well as some master classes at local companies and studios ---- but she chose not to involve herself in the campus dance grou. (I’ve seen videos; and even before my daughter went to see a performance on campus I knew that it would not appeal to my daughter. So dance classes yes – performance, no. My daughter took an advanced level ballet variations class that she enjoyed – but when the teacher asked her to participate in a stage performance but wanted the dancers to be en pointe – my daughter refused, not because of concerns about quality, but because she hadn’t danced en pointe in years and felt it was dangerous, precisely because she was not practicing regularly to preserve the required muscle strength.
Doing dance well really does require hours and hours of practice, both in class and with rehearsals. So if there is a dance performance ensemble at a college that does a good job, it would also require an intense time commitment. And again… that detracts from other things. Even enrolling in a dance classes during the day can be a problem if there are scheduling conflicts with other classes… and in addition to academics at college, my daughter needed to work to earn money – so freedom and flexibility for paid part time work was a high priority as well.
ive brought this subject with my daughters today; D16 took LOTS of ballet but quit because of marching band in HS.
She scoffs slightly at D24 who does competition dance at our local strip mall. This daughter LOVES LOVES LOVES her competition dance and friend group. . . . and i worry about her wanting to do nothing else in HS except this and HS dance team. There are so many academic groups and clubs and etc. she wont be able to participate in because of (competition) dance demands; and I’m trying to see the point in it all. so, i sort of have the same question too, as the OP: how does ONE time-demanding EC look? Unbalanced? committed? single-minded? Passionate?
Your daughter’s dance competition & team activities are fine.
Please – don’t try to structure your daughter’s activities around “what looks good for college”-- there are no guarantees, and there is absolutely no reason to deprive your daughter of the opportunity to pursue the activity she enjoys the most.
When it comes time to apply to a college, develop a list based on what college is a good fit for your daughter’s personality and interests. If she wants to continue to participate in dance-team like activities, there are plenty of colleges she can look at --some of which may place considerable value on her high school experience. For a quick list, Google “Colleges with Strength in Dance Teams”
And if she doesn’t want to carry on with competitive dance in college – well, the point is the same. There are colleges that will appreciate what your daughter has done and what she has to offer, and colleges that won’t— and the best college strategy is simply to focus on the colleges that will. Because that is where she will find other like-minded students and be happiest in the end in any case.
And really – you never know where an activity that seems less-impressive may lead.
There’s a whole list if colleges that have dance teams – which is very different than what you might find if you were searching for BFA quality dance programs. I’m not saying that your daughter should apply to any of the colleges on that list – maybe she won’t want to continue competition in college in any case – I’m just trying to point out that there are a different set of colleges to consider if that is what happens to appeal to her.
Stressing over what looks good to college is wasted effort, because you are potentially deterring a student from doing something she enjoys with no guarantee whatsoever of results. And you never know where the activities that seem less likely to impress may lead.
@bgbg4us , @calmom is on the money. Don’t try to guess what a college is looking for and conform to that.
Support your D in her dance endeavors, and perhaps, agree to “check in” on what she’s thinking about it with some regularity. (I’d suggest really brief journaling if she’s up for that.) What is she liking about it and not? Have her intentionally decide if she’s going to “re-up” for the next year each year and think about why, what she expects from it, etc… Answers like “I don’t know how to do anything else” are telling… Going “all in” on something just may be who she is. There are people who multi-task and there are people who prefer to do things intensively one at time – the serial taskers!
No matter what a kid does, if they do it authentically, there’s a good story (and essay) in it. That includes quitting (for the right reasons.) As a parent, you can help them stay in touch with that authenticity,
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