<p>rbc, hmmm. Interesting observations based upon the impressions of your daughter. Please let me share my impressions and observations.</p>
<p>One day last fall, I attended every class that my son takes at Hotchkiss. In his English and AP Modern Euro History course, I found the students massively engaged in the materials. There, every student spoke long and often, while the teachers guided the conversation at an extremely high level, especially for 10th graders. As a Harvard graduate, I was quite impressed with the scope and depth of discourse by most of the students. And… surprise… the students used the Harkness Method, tables and all. (How does Exeter differ from Hotchkiss here? What am I missing?)</p>
<p>Now, as for my son’s AP Chem and honors Math classes, there was less give and take in class there than in the English and History classes, but there were no stale lectures either. In Math, each student had to place on the board his or her work on certain problems, explain it and then defend it. Thereafter, the teacher would comment on the work. The Chem teacher took a similar approach in his class. Now, I think that there may be a different approach at THS than PEA in the sciences and maths. I do agree that there is no pure Harkness Method here at Hotchkiss, although the THS approach seemed quite engaging and demanding.</p>
<p>In my son’s German II class, there were only four students. The exchange between students and teacher was incessant and always in German. My son has gone from a German idiot to near fluency. (Last month, he, along with two others in his class, were offered opportunities to spend their summer in Germany on full paid scholarships because they scored so well on a standardized test recently.) </p>
<p>In sum, I was most impressed with the Hotchkiss teachers, students and their “intellectual engagement” with their material. I’m sure that PEA students are equally engaged, although I have never sat in on any classes there. Even if I had, I doubt that I would be ready to pronounce “real differences” between the classes at two renown prep schools and then boldly announce that there was less intellectual engagement at one school than the other until I had spent a great deal of time, money and enegry comparing one to the other. Until you and your daughter make such an investment, you might want to be a little more circumspect before making cavalier and broad statements about “real differences” and “intellectual engagement” when comparing Hotchkiss and Exeter classes… in my humble opinion.</p>
<p>Can anyone help me learn more about prep school sports? I am writing a paper. I need to interview some athletes at New England prep schools. If you want to help, let me know. I have a little budget to pay for your time if you can help. Thanks! Claudia</p>
<p>toombs61,
I’m sure your son picked the school with the teaching methods that suited his learning style. My d just happened to feel the classes she attended at Hotchkiss were not as dynamic at the Exeter classes. I’m certainly not claiming one style is better for a particular student, just different. </p>
<p>Some kids hate the competitive atmosphere at Exeter and prefer a more cooperative environment. D was also taken aback by the high percentage of legacies and the homogeneous nature of the student body at Hotchkiss, but many kids really want that for their high school experience. D trusted her gut feeling when she made her selection and I trust that your son did too. It turned out to be the right decision for both of them.</p>
<p>My post had more to do with narrowing down the list of all available boarding schools to a manageable number and if FA is necessary to attend, a student wants to be sure his costs will be covered. If a candidate is exceptional, it is not as big of an issue, but for the average applicant requiring FA, it’s risky not to apply to the more generous school where you are competitive. Applicants need to read the FA websites to see what the policies are and if they qualify. A middle school classmate of my d who would not have qualified for FA at St Pauls School received a full 4-yr scholarship based on a competitive exam given at SPS.</p>
<p>I agree that you should not apply to schools you would not consider attending, but students often apply to schools they have not visited. It’s expensive/time consuming to visit 10-15 schools while school is still in session. After acceptances are received, visit your top choices before making a final decision.</p>
<p>rbc, do you think not visiting lowers chance of acceptance? I do realize that some kids simply cannot visit because of distance and associated costs. But if a student lives within a four hour drive and doesn’t visit, don’t you think that would look bad?</p>
<p>I only wanted to make sure that kids don’t limit themselves to the uber-selective schools (which have the highest endowments) thinking that they won’t get FA at the less selective schools because of the smaller endowment. I agree that IF a student is competitive, they should apply to the schools that are in the position to be more generous with FA.</p>
<p>neato,
Unfortunately, we were a hour plane ride away, not a 4 hr drive. We made 2 visits to NY/CT/MA schools and d interviewed with some alum at home. It is an expensive and time consuming process if you don’t live on the east coast. You want to visit while school is in session so you try to schedule visits on days when your child has a school holiday that don’t coincide with boarding school holidays. Gives you a very limited number of days to visit if you don’t want your kid to miss any school days. D was accepted to 2 schools she had not visited, so I’m not sure if visits are as important from applicants living a distance from the school.</p>
<p>rbc, it is one thing to tell us that your D picked Exeter over Hotchkiss because of her “gut feeling” and because she found the Exeter classes more suitable to her than the few classes she attended at THS. Very good. This process of selection is quite usual. </p>
<p>But when you boldly assume, based solely upon your D’s visit to THS, that there exists some “real” gulf or difference between the teaching styles at THS and PEA, especially when I just pointed out to you that there appears to be no such gulf at these schools, at least in the humanities, your analysis boarders on poor reading skills, arrogance or worse. </p>
<p>But you don’t stop here. You again lash out at Hotchkiss and proclaim that it drips with legacies and a homogeneous student body. Proof? Why… little D again! </p>
<p>If you want to attack Hotchkiss, welcome to it. I know that it has issues. (Just as Exeter does. In this regard, if you read or believe CC, PEA seems to have more issues than any other BS in the country.) As for issues at THS, I raised one on CC months ago when its SSAT scores declined last year from 93% to 83%. Not good, IMHO.</p>
<p>But if you are planning to attack Hotchkiss and proclaim opinions about it as if they were facts, please cite some better sources than your little girl. </p>
<p>Of all of the the information sessions I attended with d, Hotchkiss was the only one where the head of school made a point of letting you know that approx 35% of the students were legacies and that many of the teachers were former THS students. SPS is probably the only other elite prep school with a higher percentage of legacies but d didn’t apply there.</p>
<p>We had lunch at THS and d commented that it reminded her of a book she had read “Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria”? THS was actually the only school we visited where d said she could not imagine spending 4 years with the people she met. </p>
<p>Like I previously mentioned, kids are looking for different experiences when they choose which boarding school offer to accept/decline. </p>
<p>Below is a quote from a post by lucktduckyme located at:</p>
<p>"I chose Hotchkiss over Exeter for a variety of reasons. Perhaps the most significant of them all, however, is that when I revisited, I didn’t feel at ease. There were so many students everywhere that I felt like I was lost in the middle of New York. I felt just one out of a million, another brainiac that didn’t have any particular significance. Granted, the classes were small and challenging, and I liked the Harkness method of teaching that they implemented in every class, but despite all that, I knew I could never feel comfortable at Exeter, and so I knew it wasn’t the right place for me.</p>
<p>When I revisited Hotchkiss though, I was warmly received and felt very relaxed from the moment I stepped through the doors. I felt like I would have significance if I attended, and not just be another kid".</p>
<p>D’s reasons to attend Exeter over Hotchkiss are certainly just as valid as your son’s and luckyduckyme’s decision to attend THS. </p>
<p>Just curious…since we seem to agree that the Harkness Table creates a dynamic classroom, did you son apply to Exeter? If so, was he accepted/declined?</p>
<p>JP,
Sorry your original post/question got hijacked!</p>
<p>rbc, okay you have given me one apparent fact about Hotchkiss beyond your D’s opinions: the head of school at THS said that 35% of the students at Hotchkiss were legacies. Thank you. As for this asserted statement, I can say that this is the first time I have ever heard such a remark. If this statement is true, it is concerning. I will now confer with other sources and see whether or not they confirm or deny such a statement. I will be amazed if it is true. If true, I will be a bit disappointed. Either way, I will share with CC any info I find on this front. </p>
<p>Also, I can now only assume that you agree with me that both Exeter and Hotchkiss have similar teaching styles through their use of the Harkness Method and that your statement that there exits a “real difference” in the teaching styles at these schools, at least in the area of the humanities, was misplaced. If you somehow disagree with this point, I would be most interested to know the basis for this disagreement.</p>
<p>toombs,
I realize you sat in on THS classes, but have you ever attended an Exeter class? D sat in on math and science classes at both schools and her impression was that there was a difference in the level of student engagement. She probably never saw the Harkness Table in action at THS. But perhaps it is like you stated, what would a 13 year old know about that? </p>
<p>You never answered my question. Many Hotchkiss applicants also apply to Exeter. Did your son? If so, why did he select Hotchkiss over Exeter?</p>
<p>rbc, the legacy rate at Hotchkiss is slightly more than the acceptance rate, according to an AO at THS whom I know and trust. The acceptance rate at Hotchkiss this year was about 19%. So the legacy rate at THS is not around 35% as you stated. And as to your contention that the THS head of school gave you such info at a Revisit Day, the AO said that Malcolm McKenzie, who is school head, did not make such a statement in any formal speech at any Revisit Day this year or, to this AO’s best information and belief, at any time.</p>
<p>So, rbc, please retract yet another misstatement about THS. Thank you.</p>
<p>Hahahahaha
@ rbchicago, it’s ok!
@ everyone- Thanks guys for giving me information that I didn’t even think of.</p>
<p>I’m thinking I should apply for DA, THS, CRH, PA, and PEA, because of the reason they all have swimming/water polo programs and great music programs. I’m big on swimming/water polo, music, and mathematics, and I loved the Harkness method of teaching from these schools. We can afford pretty much all the tuition fees, so no problem for that part.</p>
<p>rbc, right now, it is the word of an AO at Hotchkiss, whom I know and respect, against the word of some unknown figure floating around the internet who has already made one misstatement about Hotchkiss (i.e., THS doesn’t use the Harkness teaching method) and seems to have an open bias against the school. I wonder whose word is more trustworthy here?</p>
<p>toombs,
Since I heard it with my own ears, and you are going on hearsay, I have to think I am the more reliable source.</p>
<p>btw…Was your son declined at Exeter? You never answered the question so I can only conclude that is why you are so grateful to THS for accepting him.</p>
<p>rbc, because you have already proven yourself to be an unreliable and biased witness, I’m afraid that we are going to need something more than your “ears” to support your testimony. If the head of school of THS is so willing to share with you that the Hotchkiss student body holds about 35% legacies, then he surely must have shared this vital information with others. I know that he has not shared it with the AO I trust and value. He apparently has not shared it with any other AO at Hotchkiss. But he somehow, someway, shared it with you…of all people? How amazing! How incredible! How unbelievable!</p>
<p>Needless to say, until we see that info from other sources, your views on THS remain in serious doubt.</p>
<p>P.S. I have not replied to your inquiries about my son applying to Exeter or otherwise because they have absolutely nothing to do with your own statements/misstatements about Hotchkiss. It is your veracity that is at issue, not his acceptance at one school or the other.</p>
<p>lehighgal, thanks for the admissions report covering Hotchkiss in the spring of 2008. This report is helpful. Still, these stats don’t prove that over 35% of the students at THS are legacies; it just shows that 61% of the legacies applying to THS for the fall of 2009 received admission. We can’t tell from this report what percent of all students enrolling that fall were legacies. </p>
<p>We can tell from this report, however, that it sure helps to be a legacy if you are applying to THS. But then it sure helps to be a legacy when applying to any BS. Nothing new there. </p>
<p>What we may now conclude is that it seems that legacies may be admitted at a higher rate at THS than some other BS’s. Fine. BS’s are private schools and can accept whomever they wish. That said, it would be great if each BS published percentages and absolute numbers on legacies attending its school. Because, however, such numbers could scare away applications, I understand why it is so hard to find these percentages and numbers. Thanks again, lehighgal, in finding some of this info on at least one BS.</p>