Plebe Summer Pictures

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
41

<p>That is an interesting link that you provide however it contains many pieces of misinformation. </p>

<p>As a professional in the field of intellectual property and copyright, dealing often with right to privacy issues of individuals in photographs for which our institution owns the copyright to (by enrolling, taking a tour etc. individuals have forfeited their right to privacy when it comes to photography while on our property) The right to privacy either legally or ethically goes out the window while the Midshipmen - employees of the federal Government are on federal Property; just as images that are photographed by representatives of the Federal Government or employees of the Federal Government do not carry copyright protection. Thorntons must have a contract with the Academy, which specifically allows them to retain their copyright over the images that they take.</p>

<p>Midshipmen are photographed all of the time while on the yard, as mine says you just be polite, smile and then continue on your way. Who knows how many tourist photo-albums the boy is in! </p>

<p>
[quote]
I do not recall any dining room/chapel photos posted last year by either group

[/quote]
Thorntons photographed many Plebes during meals. The worst photographs we saw were of the boy during meal time on June 29th - one day after IDay. The photo was so close that you could read his name tag and was searchable on the Thornton sight under his name - not just company. Also Thorntons did take pictures in the Chapel, photographing the Choirs during services last summer. </p>

<p>Another food for thought: if people were concerned about right to privacy do you think that all these excited moms would actually comment on the photo with pointing out exactly which is their darling son or daughter?</p>

<p>I do agree that it has gone too far with "all" of the people taking pictures. The big problem lies in the fact that this is public land, it is a huge tourist destination, you do not need to be on a tour to be on the yard, and even the two women from last year are not Plebe parents so controlling this situation is daunting to say the least. </p>

<p>Lets also not forget - just like this forum - avenues to share pictures, opinions etc. really did not exist a few years ago. That is not to say that there were not tons of pictures being taken before - who of us really knows. There just was not the media to get them out into the public arena in "real time", i.e. the Internet has made life much different just in the last few years.</p>

42

<p>I found the thornton website quite frustrating, unfortunately.....and not terribly "user friendly".... half the time the pics were "protected" from copying in such a way that you could not even tell who was who! So as a result, I did not take full advantage of "searching" for our waldo on the Thornton site....and when I did, I found that while some companies were heavily covered, others were dissapointingly not. </p>

<p>In contrast, I appreciated the efforts of these 2 ladies in posting thousands of pics of all the companies....they were out there all the time, and it is amazing how much they actually covered- on a daily basis! It is within their daily postings that I do not recall any shots taken in non-public areas (chapel and dalghren)..... </p>

<p>I cannot vouch for what Thornton did...</p>

<p>I will admitt I was thrilled to finally find some pics posted by these 2 ladies that I could claim! Somehow that was very reassuring to me - especially when I finally spotted one with a huge grin! To me- priceless!</p>

<p>In retrospect, it was a true labor of love for these ladies....
for which they charged nothing....
and brought joy to many!</p>

<p>It's funny....while our (now) youngster hates to pose for the camera when we are behind the lens, he did OK when it was one of these two ladies! Go figure!</p>

43

<p>So far I think Thornton pics are awful.. and way overpriced .. but just my opinion.. and wish I had not given them $34.95.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I have found the Dropshots to be so easy to use and GREAT CANDID SHOTS!!</p>

44

<p>Ok, I will have to add my 2 cents.... I am using the pics in dropshots to
create a scrapbook for my plebe.. Just like wedding pics you take out 10 15,20 yrs later they are a lasting memory of something that means alot to you but because you were so focused during the time you didn't look around and really see what was happening.. I'm sure these plebes don't see the beauty and color of the morning run along the seawall or the amazing architecture of the yard.. They are focused on one thing; doing what their told and not getting yelled at.... The fact that these ladies don't even have a "dog in this hunt" makes these pics even more valuable to me. I would hate to have them thrown off or be discouraged based on negative comments and cause future classes not to have the same blessings that they have provided to me. I for one am truly grateful.</p>

<p>p.s. teens/young adults aren't suppose to like to have their pics made unless it's with a cell phone!!!!!!</p>

45

<p>I agree with navy2010 and mom2lolo2011, Thornton is overpriced and hard to navigate. The dropshot ladies are doing us a wonderful service.</p>

46

<p>I have been reading the comments on CC for quite a while, and this thread has prompted me to make my first post.</p>

<p>Part I:</p>

<p>First of all, Thorton Studios. I too signed up for their service. I was dissappointed with their 1st batch of pictures from I-Day (I looked through all of them and couldn't find our Plebe...and they were hard to see). I will give them the benefit of the doubt though, as I know they have been having technical difficulties (and they were very good about e-mailing me back when I had questions about the website). I have heard some good comments from former plebe parents, so I'm hoping things will improve (such as having the pictures sorted by Company, or even by last name, as the website indicates can be done, so I won't have to look through all the pictures).</p>

<p>That being said, I have been very happy with being able to see the "Daily Schedule". That in itself means a lot to me. And since the registration fee can be used toward any purchase (at least I think I remember reading that), I plan on buying a least one, if not all three, DVDs (It should only be about $15 extra to get DVD#1 'Induction Day').</p>

47

<p>Part II (I'm doing this in parts, so my posts won't be too long!!)</p>

<p>Now, concerning Plebe pictures on 'Dropshopts'. They are absolutely wonderful!!! Thanks to all that have taken the time to take the pictures and post them (especially USNA 2010and07 & USNA2010--don't know if this is the same person or not!). These pictures are giving 1200 parents (and countless friends and relatives) a glimpse of our Plebes at no cost (& their photography is great!!). I haven't heard any complaints from parents of Plebes about these photos--only complaints from those that don't have Plebes (at least I don't think they have Plebes). I'm curious, are there ANY Plebe parents out there that object to the pictures being taken??!!</p>

<p>The Naval Academy is open to visitors and, unlike West Point or Air Force, the visitors have access to the whole 'Yard' (outside, at least). There will always be people taking pictures of the Midshipman (at least I hope so..I think the whole country is proud of them and well as those at the other Service Academies). At least the "Dropshots' pictures seem to be taken more from the sidelines. The contracted 'Thorton Studios' are probably more annoying to the Plebes because they sometimes get their camerias right up in the Plebes' faces (at least I saw this done on I-Day as they were getting ready to exit Alumni Hall)</p>

48

<p>Part III (and final post on subject, I hope!)</p>

<p>I wanted to reply to some comments that have been posted on this thread:
* 'Would you want someone in your dining room area taking photos while you
ate?'
According to the Thorton Studios schedule, they will be taking
photos (or DVDs) during the morning meal, so it will be done anyway (so
it is approved by USNA)</p>

<ul>
<li><p>..."don't agree with coming to USNA and taking pictures everyday"...and "I
think this person is really overdoing it".
That's fine you don't agree--everyone is entitled to their own oppinion.<br>
But for us Plebe parents, I can't stress how much it means to us. And
in my oppinion, these pictures aren't excessive. A few hundred pictures<br>
don't even cover all our Plebes. When they put in over 1000 pictures,
there is a good chance we might see ours!! (Thorton said it had over
5,000 pictures. I didn't count, and it was a lot, but I don't think that'
many...but I still didn't find out Plebe, as I stated earlier).</p></li>
<li><p>Concering Chapel photos: If it is not allowed, then you have a valid point.
I know pictures have been taken in the Chapel before, but I just don't
know the rules.</p></li>
<li><p>Concerning security with taking picutres in the Dining Hall. As far as the
actual pictures, I don't think there is any security issue (as Thorton apears
to have permission to take pictures). I think the question is where the
photographers took the pictures from (and if they had permission to be
in an area they shouldn't be in, if that were the case).</p></li>
</ul>

<p>My final thought. Keep those great pictures coming from 'Dropshots'!!!
Those that don't like them, don't have to look at them! I think what
'navy2010' posted eariler was right on: "perhaps having 2 reps taking pics instead of "thousands" of others trying to catch a glimpse is perhaps not a bad solution...as long as the 'oboundaries' are respected"</p>

<p>Thanks for reading my post...I just had to get this off my mind!!</p>

49

<p>One thing to realize is Thorton Studios has exclusive permission. They are suppose to be one entity to represent a place to obtain photos. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

According to the Thorton Studios schedule, they will be taking
photos (or DVDs) during the morning meal, so it will be done anyway (so
it is approved by USNA)

[/QUOTE]

That is a fundamental mistake. Just because Thorton has permission, doesn't mean everyone else has permission.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

  • Concerning security with taking picutres in the Dining Hall. As far as the actual pictures, I don't think there is any security issue (as Thorton apears to have permission to take pictures). I think the question is where the photographers took the pictures from (and if they had permission to be in an area they shouldn't be in, if that were the case).

[/QUOTE]

That is the security issue!</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

  • Concering Chapel photos: If it is not allowed, then you have a valid point. I know pictures have been taken in the Chapel before, but I just don't know the rules.

[/QUOTE]

It is the mere fact of trying to get plebe pictures during the service. It wasn't like the person was trying to capture an overall shot of how many plebes were there. I wouldn't say these photos were "sidelined." Of course, if there is a significant event (i.e. Wedding), pictures/video are allowed and usually the pictures/video involves only those participating in the services. Plebe summer services aren't "significant."</p>

50

<p>rgrmebb-</p>

<p>Good points.</p>

<p>I, myself, enjoy dropshots and have found pictures of my plebe in ordinary everyday circumstances at USNA. I am grateful to these ladies who DO NOT have to do this. They choose to do this out of compassion for us, the 'rents. </p>

<p>They are good shots and from what I've seen, they do try and discriminate where, when, and what type.</p>

51

<p>Can I put a plug for posting photos to the Naval Academy Alumni Association website. The "official" site for the posting of photos, etc.</p>

<p>I know posting photos to USNAA is more cumbersome than Dropshots [and I wish they would fix that], but it does provide a central repository. The problem [albeit a minor one] with Dropshots is that if you don't remember a posting name [yes, I guess you can search], then it is not as easy to find photos specific to the what you are looking for. </p>

<p>The women described in this thread have done a marvelous job, volunteering many, many more hours than I would have to get photos of plebes. [I don't have a 2010 or 2011 Plebe, so it did not benefit me either way].</p>

<p>Security? Let's not be dramatic and overstate the concern. If Navy is [as they have been in the past] concerned about security, it would shut the yard down [or at least restrict access to sensitive area as they already to]. As has been pointed out in other threads, the administration must know best when it was decided to permit these woman any extraordinary [do they have extraordinary?] access. Otherwise, they seem to be taking pictures any civilian is permitted to take.
In any event, I don't think random shots of a mess hall are particularly sensitive. What is the fear; that rogue terrorists need photos of the food carts so they can design an appropriate IED?
If, on the other hand, you are saying the women have entered secure areas; well, then, that is a different issue having nothing to do with the photos they have taken. That is a security issue that focuses on who is being permitted to enter these areas.</p>

<p>Personally, I think taking photos of mids eating is probably a bit excessive, but, as was discussed in other threads, the American public [and espeically those moms!] certainly never let a bit of common sense get in the way of their taking photos.</p>

52

<p>I went to the USNA.org posting and did find a picture of my mid. They will send you the copy for free.</p>

53

<p>
[quote]
One thing to realize is Thorton Studios has exclusive permission.

[/quote]
That may or may not be true. Exclusive to professional photography, i.e. "for sale" but by no means exclusive to the yard as there is no restrictions to taking photographs anywhere on the yard that is open to the public - which does include the chapel - however etiquette would tell most not to photograph during services. Also, none of us know if these same two women have received permission this year. My bet is that they have.</p>

<p>Thorntons site is bad, there is no way else to describe it. It is really only good for daily schedules and even then, if your company is lucky to have an officer who sets up a yahoo group like my mids did, then we actually got the schedule and pictures taken by the company cadre there too! In the end I ordered two things from Thorntons - the Tshirt for PPW and two digital files on disc. Received the 2 Tshirts - have never received the disc. Made for two really expensive home made (iron on transfers) T shirts!</p>

<p>As Bill pointed out lets not get carried away by concerns of security or "how the Plebes feel about getting photographed" As mine said this morning - "I was oblivious to anyone with a camera or on the sidelines, your focus is not there and if it is you have way bigger problems!"</p>

<p>To all of the Class of 2011 parents enjoy your glimps of your kids world. Peace of mind really is priceless.</p>

54

<p>Though I realize that USMA and USAFA 'venues' are considerably larger, my question is does this incessant picture taking occur at the following locations during boot camp:</p>

<p>Perris Island
Camp Pendleton
Great Lakes
USMMA
USCGA
USMA
USAFA</p>

55

<p>Probably not, but at least the first three are tactical military instillations and you are not allowed on there without a military or dependant ID card. Additionally, if you are REALLY somewhere you are not supposed to be, they're watching and they will certainly let you know by way of the nice security forces that show up. </p>

<p>You say incessant, some say innocent. </p>

<p>If you don't want to look, then don't.</p>

56

<p>I would have to agree with Profmom in that aside from the daily schedules, I found little else from what Thornton had to offer. About 5 weeks into Plebe summer, with not even one rotation "covered" of companies 22-30, I made several calls to Eleanor and Thornton as to "what's up"....</p>

<p>in the end , while there was a lot of coverage of some of the earlier companies, we were lucky to get scant coverage at the mock sea trials the last week of plebe summer....
so for this mom, who had every intention to "purchase lots," I purchased "nothing."</p>

<p>What I did do was send a nice thankyou to both ladies who, between just the 2 of them, managed to capture our plebe...out of THOUSANDS of others, not once, not twice, but over 30 times.......... and no doubt, managed to do the same with all 1200+ of them.....and in the meantime, sprouted a cottage industry with thousands of moms and dads scurrying home to check the internet daily for the new "pics".... which we could even add our comments to! How wonderful to see postings "that's him.... that's her.... that's my daughter.... that's my son on top of that rope.... ".... what a privilage!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>The pics were of such a high quality that I even contacted the ladies to find out what kind of camera/lens they were using (nikon's both)........and even spoke to one of them on the yard .........and you would be surprised to see just how far "out" she was from the "subjects" being photographed..... the lenses- and she- were amazing! (and while this is not an advertisement for Nikon, after seeing what they accomplished I am now, too, in the market!)</p>

<p>If it were not for these 2 ladies, I would have had one pic inside alumni hall standing at a desk, one shot running and one shot climbing a rope (both mud-covered during mock sea-trials,) and one company shot.... and that was it....4 pics from a company who's business this is.</p>

<p>Which is not to say that there are parents out there very happy with their Thornton coverage and photos..... as I mentioned, some companies got very "heavy" coverage while later rotations did not......... Thornton actually posted a grid on the coverage on their site along the way, which spoke volumes. What amazes me to this day is how 2 dedicated women managed to accomplish what a well-established business failed to do..... </p>

<p>they were everywhere....the ladies, not thornton....
they were at sailing-
they were at running-
they were at PEP-
they were at parade practices- and parades-
they were at the midstore the day they got issued bags-
they were at the 4th of July fireworks-
they were everywhere........
and it was not just the "plebes" who benefited....
they were at the junior ring dance just this past May.....
they took a pic of just about every couple that walked across the footbridge...
they were at I-day....not just for their plebes year, but for this year with no horse of their own in the race....
they spent countless hours in all types of weather......
and posted hundreds of pics every evening.........
they even covered sports practices.........
and they did it without asking for a dime.</p>

<p>Having met both of them, you could not find sweeter angels providing us all with a service that is invaluable. The fact that they have been "plebe moms" themselves gives them the appreciation for what the rest of the "parents" out there want.... not "perfect pictures," just ANY sighting of our kids as they go through this experience.......... for me, it was a way of being able to "share" in something- to gain a better appreciation - for something I could not otherwise fathom.</p>

<p>My final comment is that I would have paid anything for their service........
it was, and continues to be, priceless!</p>

<p>(guess not my final comment afterall....this is not to say that I do not appreciate the concerns of the cadre....they have a job to do, and it is an important one. The last thing anyone wants to do is to interfere with that process.... ).... having said that, and having seen these two ladies at work, they are professionals in every respect. I have no doubt that if, for some reason, they mistake where the line is drawn as to "out of bounds" areas, a simple word will be all it takes to make any necessary corrections.</p>

57

<p>Amen, Navy2010.</p>

58

<p>"If you don't want to look, then don't."</p>

<p>I'm just listening to descriptions of parents taking thousands of pictures during plebe summer and thinking this just reinforces Army's notion that Navy is indeed a 'country club.' ;)</p>

59

<p>On the parents taking photos.... These photos are, IMHO, the best ones taken, to date. Plus, I dont' have to get a bank loan to retrieve them. I've also joined Thornton's, but they are slow, cumbersome to search, and VERY pricey...<br>
Unless you know the site name for the parent photos, you can't access them anyway. Somehow I don't see Cadre as the shy/retiring types that would hesitate to tell a civilian to step back or step aside, if they were in a restricted area. The shots of the dining hall??? Look closely...they were done through the front doors. You can see it in the reflections of some of the shots. And, vast majority of those shots are blurry, at any rate. Just gives you a feel for what's going on, and nothing specific. (Does chow time require a vetting with high clearance? Not likely.)
Would I, as a Plebe, want these folks in my face each day? No way. First, I hate to have my picture taken; always have. And, secondly, I think it would be distracting. But, MIDNs are the accessible face of the Navy, and from our experience on I-Day, Gate 1 felt just about the same as going into Mt. Rushmore, or any other national park/area... You can see in some of the mom-photos of PEP that the Thornton Studios folks are RIGHT in the faces of the Plebes while they're trying to do crunches!!! I'd be kicking and punching the guy to get out of my face!! ("leave me ALONE!!") About the same gut feeling I had when I was in politics and news stations/reporters would follow me around all day and evening. Not pleasant. Not asked for. Not wanted. After all, it was me that was the elected, not my kids/family and friends. But, you know what? You learn to deal with it... You find the inner strength to tune some of that fray out. And you get creative in how you maneuver in public. Maybe being in the public eye while being given and carrying out orders is part/parcel of learning to deal with multiple stresses and demands? The officers on this site can lend a voice to what it's like to make split second decisions, all of them priority, with a million things going on around you. Can't really retreat to your private places to make some of those decisions or to take or give orders, would be my guess. </p>

<p>I personally am enjoying the photos. Fills some of the gap when I'm not getting mail (which, we haven't). No calls home, which we consider a positive thing (as calls would come from Chaplains or Infirmary...or coc with news that our Plebe is having doubts...). And, the photos have shown us he's looking fine, especially for only one week in. </p>

<p>So, for us...as long as they're posting...we're hunting for Waldo! (When, that is, we have time away from our own day jobs...)</p>

<p>(West Point takes their cadets to the hills for a long, long, long hike, from what I hear. [I'm sure some fine soul on here will correct me if I'm wrong...they always do.] Would be a hearty soul that could even keep up with them! Maybe Navy needs to sail the Mids out to some far-away island to train???) LOLOL. Whatever...</p>

60

<p>Do you really care what the Army thinks of the Navy?
Suave and debonaire - country club etiquette is not a bad trait to have! Heck mine is on the Debutant escort list this year so I guess his year at Navy has impressed that crowd...Certainly not worried about impressing anyone from Army. Each to their own, Army likes the way they do things and my Mid likes the way Navy does things - if he didn't then he would be at Army.</p>

<p>Navy2010 is right on the money. Our company even took up a donation and gave it to the two women at PPW.</p>

<p>Everyone needs to face the fact that the USNA yard is the largest tourist destination in Maryland. As with all tourists (parent and nonparent alike) - camera's will be found.</p>

<p>If Dropshots is a bone of contention - stay off the site. It certainly does not bother the plebes, at least none that I know of from last year, and from what we could tell last year it did not really bother the Cadre; so why is this such an issue here?</p>

<p>Hope they get good pictures of the 4th - last year that was the first day we saw pictures our plebe with a smile!</p>