Pledging for a frat

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
61

<p>Dontno -- </p>

<p>I think we find ourselves on a slippery slope when we start thinking about the identity politics within the context of Rand's work. Unfortunately, I find so much of her work to be completely divorced from what it means to be human and to be a social creature. The dichotomy that she creates between objectivists and collectivists is a false one, and we need to understand that each human life contains rich elements of both.</p>

<p>Two books that I would recommend you read are Young's 'The Rise of the Meritocracy' and Appiah's 'The Ethics of Identity'. I think that you would find that both writers approach their subject with a world view that is firmly grounded in that of classical liberalism, which you seem sympathetic to, but they come to some rather convincing arguments as to why certain institutions are in place to make us a bit more human -- a bit more grounded in our biological orientation if you will.</p>

<p>At any rate, I'm glad that a lot of Rand's beliefs (not to mention those of her disciple Greenspan!) are in the process of being put to rest. </p>

<p>But that's besides the point. I'm definitely sympathetic to your view that some of the fraternities and program houses are grounded in a somewhat backwards world view. As I mentioned before in terms of the Greek system more generally, the Greek system is an exclusionary force on campus, when it could bring more an inclusive presence. However, I feel that the problem is one of a degree and not of absolute principal.</p>

<p>The example of the Italian American student organization is instructive. A person can choose to associate with such an organization, but it hardly defines their identity. Rather, there are many valued and personally important traditions that surround one's ethnicity, and supporting such traditions can bring a rich culture to campus life, provided the group is willing to share and engage with others who may be foreign to such traditions. The same can be said for Jewish frats or the program houses, and in each case, a particular association doesn't assume a person's complete identity. </p>

<p>How would you label an African-American pre-med who plays varsity softball, a devout Christian, and lives in Ujamma? Or the President of the Korean Student Association who also leads the RoboCup team? Or the Jewish kid in Sammy who just so happens to volunteer every weekend for Habitat for Humanity?</p>

<p>Keep in mind I do think that a lot of these groups do have strong exclusionary tendencies, and that I believe the University can implement policies to counteract such influence. But as I mentioned before, it is a question of degree, not principal.</p>

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<p>For the record, the juxtaposition between the last two posts in hilarious.</p>

63

<p>Wow, dontno it seems that your doing a lot of sucking up to CayugaRed because you've realized that he can obliterate you with his vocabulary. He's explaining more in depth basically the same thing everyone else is saying, but you just don't seem to get it. </p>

<p>And Cayuga, I agree that the Greek system is just a band of exclusivity on campus in which one must fit into a certain identity or mindset to join, other than their religion or color of their skin. If skin color and religion were the only requirements then every Black person or Jewish person would be Greek, which they are not. I mean, you can't just be a black girl to join the AKAs(first black sorority, you have to possess other characteristics like long hair, maybe light skin, wealthy background, and uppity attitude, in my opinion. But that is just what I see at Cornell. But I don't think its terrible to be part of it, I would if I could, the cool letters and colors and the shirts on Slope Day great college experience. As long as one doesn't make their biggest mistakes because of it.</p>

<p>But I do not agree that multicultural orgs or the program houses are somewhat different and more backwards than the traditional ones. Everything outside of these communities at Cornell and even in the outside world is dominated by white people and no one blinks an eye. But when one group, after being excluded from "traditional white groups", decides to make their own society to get where they need to go, a lot of white people are in an uproar forgetting that they do not accept those people anyway. So how are we backwards. Everyone groups together, in the cafeteria there are numerous tables filled with white students, but that one table with black students, Latinos or Asians is considered enthnocentric.</p>

<p>But dontno, are in college? Are you applying? Your comments are so very elementary that I can only assume that you've never lived in a world outside of your comfort zone. I mean you went and found some random website of some woman's views that are internationally debated and rejected amongst philosophers. Next time to prove a point it's better to pick something that is widely supported unless you have a PhD and can back it up.</p>

<p>I don't know if you expect everyone to ignore their differences and to not celebrate it in this day and age. In these ethnically-affiliated orgs people don't just sit there and cry about "oh the Holocaust was so bad" or "oh slavery was so hard and back-breaking", if that is what you think. They or we try to share amongst each other and to the campus our cultural identities with in a Anglo-American dominated society. I don't know if you want us to just forget that we are Black, Latino, Native American, Jewish, or Asian and just conform to the mainstream culture and people(these people you call WASP) and act white even though everyone else will treat us like we are not. </p>

<p>Please explain how you want the this campus(a microcosm of the larger society) to work, since you seem to have a pretty good and innovative idea that no one has ever thought of or tried.</p>

64

<p>Can anybody name some coed frats that are philanthro-based? i think alphazeta is one, but any others? thanks!</p>

65

<p>
[quote]
He's explaining more in depth basically the same thing everyone else is saying, but you just don't seem to get it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>To be fair, I studied these sorts of issues at Cornell. Dontno was an engineer, if my memory serves me correctly.</p>

<p>
[quote]
But I do not agree that multicultural orgs or the program houses are somewhat different and more backwards than the traditional ones.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree with this statement as well. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.</p>

66

<p>We're on the same page ;) I know, what you were implying. </p>

<p>But to Turtle, there is APO(Alpha Phi Omega) a very prominent service nationally. And also the business frats on campus do a lot of philanthropy. But you will find a lot of opportunities to do service activities outside of Greek life at the Public Service Center.</p>

67

<p>@ TrackBabi:</p>

<p>Yes I'm completely sucking up to CayugaRed! Yea I made one statement stating agreement with one aspect of his argument, an aspect that I previously was sympathetic to (read my posts before tht). Yes and his vocabulary is so much better than my little itty bitty one, gosh I just can't use big bad words like he can. </p>

<p>Look, it's quite clear your acceptance to Cornell was based almost entirely on your race. You're self-conscious about your farce of an acceptance. I understand this. If I was given a great honor just because of my skin color, I'd feel that I cheated the meritocratic system that America is supposed to be founded upon. It's clear that you have an indefatigable desire to defend ethnocentricity and affirmative action b/c they have afforded you not only an Ivy League degree but also your social relationships. I get it. It's cool.</p>

<p>(That last paragraph only applies to you. See I judge people absed on their individual value. I don't coalesce the entire black populaiton of Cornell into a nice little segregated lower SAT scoring group. But you are on the other hand, lacking any semblance of mental acuity, you're different. It's ostensibly clear that your accept was unwarranted.)</p>

<p>And to Cayuga (the person I'm sucking up to): I honestly don't bleieve we disagree that much. I however do believe a strict dichomoty exists between egoists and collectivists. There's no way around that.</p>

<p>
[quote]
they come to some rather convincing arguments as to why certain institutions are in place to make us a bit more human -- a bit more grounded in our biological orientation if you will.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes but can we just willfully yield to our sociobiological urges? I don't think so. We're innately "designed" to be racist. It was an imperative trait of our hunter-gatherer ancestors to view any different looking person as a threat (in almost all instances they were). So our inherent desire to gravitate towards others who look like us is based on archaic societal structure. It's no longer relevant and just b/c that desire is hardwired into our brain doesn't mean we should allow it to manifest in our social interactions. We have other nefarious urges (towards violence, hatred, physical force, etc...), but no one advocated we actively pursue these actions. Just to be clear, I fully udnerstand the rationale, or more germane to the actual foundation: evolutionary marker, that guides these actions, but I don't think it's acceptable to follow it. </p>

<p>Back to trackBabi:</p>

<p>
[quote]
I mean you went and found some random website of some woman's views that are internationally debated and rejected amongst philosophers. Next time to prove a point it's better to pick something that is widely supported unless you have a PhD and can back it up.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yea Ayn Rand, she's so obscure. In a survey a few years ago, her book "Atlas Shurgged" was voted the second most influential book behind The Bible. I'm sure you read the Bible tho considering your obvious lack of critical thinking. And one of her disciples was Alan Greenspan, yea he never amoutned to much.</p>

<p>
[quote]
But when one group, after being excluded from "traditional white groups", decides to make their own society to get where they need to go, a lot of white people are in an uproar forgetting that they do not accept those people anyway. So how are we backwards. Everyone groups together, in the cafeteria there are numerous tables filled with white students, but that one table with black students, Latinos or Asians is considered enthnocentric.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I actually somewhat agree with this statement. Well somewhat. From my experience, the black students were much more unwelcoming to outsiders, especially white students. But both groups are respnsible for the racial discord. I know that white people congregate just like black people and Jewish people. I'm not denying this. It's wrong. </p>

<p>What I believe is truly unacceptable is actually formulating official groups, like Jewish frats or black segregated dorms, based on ethnicity. Oh and Cayuga's comments were actually relevant to what I stated. Your rejoinders are the jejune retorts of an intellectually immature troll. </p>

<p>here's an example:</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm definitely sympathetic to your view that some of the fraternities and program houses are grounded in a somewhat backwards world view.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Note the lack of internet slang and actual relevance to the discussion.</p>

<p>And i graduated Summa Cum Laude.</p>

<p>Oh and by the way, I'm Jewish.</p>

68

<p>Oh boy... this thread is going downhill and going nowhere fast. I hope it gets removed now.</p>

<p>Out of curiosity dontno - what is your status as a Cornell student? On one thread you mentioned that you graduated with honors from the engineering college after transferring to Cornell... however in a recent thread from this Fall you asked if they were going to post the test and solutions online for Math 1910. Are you an alum who likes to look at current tests?
I'm not a stalker, but you have such strong, didactical opinions that it piqued my curiosity enough to look at past posts.</p>

<p>Also... I think post #67 violates CC's TOS by personally attacking TrackBabi17 in the second paragraph. </p>

<p>Here's a clip from the TOS page:

[quote]
Courtesy
At College Confidential, we expect discussion to be courteous even when disagreement may be vigorous. When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone. Flames, insults, and personal attacks will not be tolerated. It's fine to disagree with opinions, ideas, and facts, but always with respect for the other person.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>I'm an alum, 2007. I just was curious about that test b/c everyone thought it was so incredibly hard. I wanted to see if I could do the exam even though I took the course 5 years ago. Still haven't gotten a chance.</p>

<p>OK yea it was somewhat harsh. But TrackBabi, in this and other threads, has contunally engaged in ad hominem attacks. I attempt to debate rationally with her, but she constantly insults me personally. She has never even once quoted me in order to respond directly to my assertions and thoughts. She has insulted my reasoning ability, my vocabulary, my close-mindedness, my supposed racism, etc. And that was just in this thread! </p>

<p>It was wrong, I agree. I actually hesitated before posting it, but it's pretty obvious where her defensiveness originates.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm not a stalker, but you have such strong, didactical opinions that it piqued my curiosity enough to look at past posts.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'll take that as a compliment even if you disagree with what I'm saying.</p>

70

<p>Well, your indignation is far from righteous, and as a more mature alum, I hope you are here to give present and future students helpful counsel. I think this thread should be shut down or move back "on topic" which was asking for advice about pledging DU and other fraternities.

[quote]
I actually hesitated before posting it,

[/quote]
Great idea... always hesitate before posting! I do it all the time. We all find people on this board to push our buttons at times, but we alums have to take the high road!</p>

71

<p>
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and as a more mature alum, I hope you are here to give present and future students helpful counsel.

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</p>

<p>Don't be so sanctimonious. </p>

<p>I'm here to talk about Cornell related issues, whether that helps future students or not isn't a major concern. I enjoy discussing issues with fellow Cornellians.</p>

<p>And who cares about where a thread digresses towards? The original question was answered, now the thread has morphed into something else somewhat related.</p>

72

<p>QUOTE: "Can anybody name some coed frats that are philanthro-based? i think alphazeta is one, but any others? thanks!"</p>

<p>There are (still, as far as I know) two co-ed fraternities in the system; Alpha Zeta and Sigma Chi Delta. The former is largely limited to CALS (it's an aggie house), the latter is a small house near North Campus. Outside of IFC, there's the national service fraternity (Alpha Phi Omega), and professional fraternities.</p>

<p>But, we can tie that into the current discussion. Back in the day, I knew a couple of Alpha Zetans (I was in CALS, so it was going to happen at some point). One was a comm major out of the Buffalo area, and the other was a biology major from Long Island. Neither of them were "farmboys" as one would expect. So, although a house has a reptuation for being something, that doesn't necessarily mean all of its members conform to that reputation. ZBT, for another example, is tradionally a Jewish house (the initials are Hebrew for "Zion shall be redeemed with justice"). The two guys I knew from that house: An Asian-American from California and a Catholic from the Boston area. Neither one fits the stereotype very well in that case either.</p>

<p>Don't judge a house based on reputation. Houses are far more likely to discriminate on character over anything else.</p>

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<p>To add onto what ontario said and this was probably largely repeated in the forum, but each house has a different feel to it. You will know during the week what the house is like in terms of its character and whether or not the house is a good fit for you. If you are rushing fraternity X and they don't contact you during contacts, that's a sign you should look elsewhere. Conversely, if some house you did not consider is interested in you, don't immediately throw them out, but be cautious.</p>