Poli Sci: Yale > Princeton???

<p>Here's a quick comparison, by the numbers, of these two schools:</p>

<p>Over the last hundred years, three Presidents went to Yale undergraduate. It's been over 87 years since Woodrow Wilson, the last Princeton alumnus to ascend to the White House, left office.</p>

<p>Five of the seven states with Ivy League universities have at least one Yale-educated senator; none of these states have a Princeton-educated senator.</p>

<p>The last viable Princeton-educated candidate for the Presidency lost in 2000; the last viable Yalie for that same job is currently President.</p>

<p>Why is there this disparity is political achievement between the two schools? Is it because Yale is slightly larger than Princeton? Are Princetonians less inclined to public service because they'd rather pursue careers in the private sector (read: Wall Street and other lucrative opportunities)?</p>

<p>On the other hand, I love Woody Woo and I realize that Princeton is the most undergrad-focused of the Big Three. </p>

<p>If you were to advise an aspiring pol which school to attend, what would your answer be?</p>

<p>I would say that the decisions of others who entered the university would have little bearing on my decision. If you think that Princeton provides the resources you need to go into politics and has the programs you want, go for it. The fact that others didn't shouldn't stop you.</p>

<p>I think the answer is, as you said, that Princetonians have tended to work more in the private sector than in the government (except the CIA, which traditionally had a strong pull on Princeton graduates). Also, consider that Yale's political science department has historically been both larger and stronger than Princeton's. Princeton has always been the top school for political theory, along with Harvard, but it is only in the past few years that its international relations program has also reached that level.</p>

<p>For all intents and purposes, though, Yale and Princeton will each offer you an equivalently strong academic program of study in political science. Each will also equip you with the necessary connections and qualifications to pursue whatever political career you wish. So, if I were you, I'd base my decision on other factors (location, setting, housing, social environment, etc.).</p>

<p>Where do most Princeton grads who enroll in Woody Woo end up? Ibanking?</p>

<p>Remember- Yale has the graduate law school which also brings top professors and other good poli-sci things to campus!</p>

<p>
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Where do most Princeton grads who enroll in Woody Woo end up? Ibanking?

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</p>

<p>Law, investment banking, and management consulting are the three most common careers, I believe.</p>

<p>they made those decisions to attend yale when they were 17/18...its not like they hold the gospel truth, and so many things have changed at each university since then. not to mention, one of those people was dubya</p>

<p>How competitive is it to enter into Woody Woo? I know obviously the stats are unique for each individual, but what is average GPA? What qualifications do people need to have?</p>

<p>
[quote]
The last viable Princeton-educated candidate for the Presidency lost in 2000; the last viable Yalie for that same job is currently President.

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</p>

<p>Are you serious right now?</p>

<p>Bush is a graduate of Yale University,
therefore all graduates of Yale University are like Bush.</p>

<p>:3</p>

<p>LOL exactly.</p>

<p>the moral of this story is, if you want to be just like George W-Unit Bush when you grow up, you'll have a better chance of doing that at Yale than at Princeton.</p>

<p>i know which school has my vote!</p>

<p>Me:
The last viable Princeton-educated candidate for the Presidency lost in 2000; the last viable Yalie for that same job is currently President.</p>

<p>Quote: Are you serious right now?</p>

<p>Me: I use viability as a measure of electablity (a bar Bush has crossed twice) not competence. BTW, one of my political heroes is Bill Bradley.</p>

<p>In the simplest of terms:</p>

<p>Madison (P) > JFK (P for a year) > Taft (Y) > Wilson (P) > H.W. Bush (Y) > W (Y)</p>

<p>Honestly, I'd say there's no real difference in the top tier.</p>

<p>But, NRC Rankings:</p>

<p>Political Science</p>

<p>1 Harvard 4.88
2 Cal Berkeley 4.66
3 Yale 4.60
4 Michigan 4.60
5 Stanford 4.50
6 Chicago 4.41
7 Princeton 4.39</p>

<p>sylenteck0: Those ratings are from 1994, and do not account for the considerable changes in faculty strength among the listed schools since then.</p>

<p>Ewwww... your measures are all flawed.
1) President: Totally hit-and-miss. There's so few of them from each college that the "balance"/"percentage" can be skewed very quickly. Anyway, grad school is more telling.
2) You're arbitrarily choosing states with Ivy-league universities, and then not even differentiating between grad and undergrad education? That's just asking for trouble.
3) Recent presidential candidates: see #1.</p>

<p>Now, I'm just going to throw this out there, from some basic numbers I've recently pulled off the internet after some scouring.</p>

<p>Number of current Congressmen (and women, of course) by matriculation from selected colleges (UNDERGRAD):
1) Harvard: 11 (includes: 6 senators; 2 Congressmen in MA)
2) Stanford: 10 (includes: 4 senators; 4 Congressmen in CA)
3) Yale: 9 (includes: 6 senators; 1 Congressman in CT)
4) Georgetown: 6 (includes: 3 senators; 0 Congressmen in Delaware/Maryland/Virginia)
5) Princeton: 3 (includes: 1 senator; 0 Congressmen in NJ)</p>

<p>Just thought that might give you a better idea. If anyone wants to put a little effort into this and ** supplement my findings and help build a more comprehensive picture of these five schools, ** feel free to research one or more recent Congresses, cabinet posts, ambassadorships, and advisors in the same manner. It would be a really interesting project, and the results would probably be helpful to those PoliSci/Gov/IR people choosing between some/all of these top schools.</p>

<p>~Ethan</p>

<p>Ethanrt, I’ll not take you up on the challenge of compiling the data (too much work!) but it might be interesting were someone to take the time.</p>

<p>Greg, there’s no doubt that Yale has an impressive representation in the Senate at the present time. Currently, there are six U.S. Senators who did their undergraduate work at Yale and only one from Princeton. However, these numbers can change dramatically in a short period of time. Three of those six Yale Senators were elected just two years ago (Brown, Whitehouse and Klobuchar) while two Princeton Senators retired two years ago (Sarbanes and Frist). </p>

<p>As for the Presidency, the arrival of George H.W. Bush and his son, our current President, increased the total number of Yale Presidents to three, but this, of course, is very recent. For the first 225 years of our country’s history, there had been only one Yale President (William Howard Taft). Princeton graduated one of the founding fathers, James Madison, and Woodrow Wilson, who succeeded Taft. Now, both of these actually pale in comparison to Harvard’s numbers which include five undergraduate alumni who have entered the White House (John Adams, his son John Quincy Adams, Theodore Roosevelt, his cousin Franklin Delano Roosevelt and, finally, John F. Kennedy) (JFK actually enrolled at and spent part of the fall semester at Princeton but then became ill and had to withdraw. When he recovered, he started over at Harvard.) </p>

<p>Part of the explanation for the higher number of Yale affiliations in Congress is also that a great many U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives have graduate degrees from Yale’s law school but were not undergraduates there. The presence of law and business schools, in particular, will greatly increase the number of alumni in Congress. This is true, for example, for Senators Specter and Clinton. Finally, I believe I read somewhere (I’m sorry that I can’t provide the reference) that, on a per capita basis since the time of its founding, Princeton has actually produced more U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives than any other school in the country.</p>

<p>While each of these schools is proud of its alumni who achieve high political office, I’m not sure it means much in the end in terms of evaluating undergraduate political science programs. Many of them didn’t even major in political science as undergraduates (e.g. Brown, Whitehouse and Nelson). </p>

<p>You can’t go wrong with Yale in terms of political science. It is a highly rated department and the Yale Political Union is fun for undergraduates. Still, I would say the same about Princeton’s Woodrow Wilson School and the Whig-Cliosophic Society. One difference is that the Wilson School has tended to be more focused on international affairs than on domestic U.S. politics though I understand that this is beginning to change. If you are interested in international affairs, the Wilson school would be a particularly good choice. Some time back, Foreign Policy Magazine ranked undergraduate and graduate programs and I summarized the results here:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/3747046-post1.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/3747046-post1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Hmm, I suppose Georgetown's terminal degree in IR is Master's.</p>

<p>The data that PtonGrad offers originally comes from an annual survey of over 1,000 IR professors in the U.S., conducted by William & Mary. You can find it here: <a href="http://mjtier.people.wm.edu/IvoryTower%202007.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mjtier.people.wm.edu/IvoryTower%202007.pdf&lt;/a> The older survey is much less like a Newsweek article and significantly more comprehensive; I have much of it saved no my home computer, but I can't find it on the web right now. (Anyone who wants to try, feel very free!)</p>

<p>I actually leaned on that survey very heavily when I was narrowing down my college choices, but it's also a good idea to take it with a grain of salt. Although we might see IR professors as knowing everything there is to know about IR, we must also ask ourselves how many of these professors have actually taught at, visited, or even met anyone from many of the institutions with good IR programs - the former (teaching) being the best (and perhaps only) way to get a good sense of the strength of the program. That's why, depending on my acceptances/rejections in the coming week (my hopes aren't too high, believe me), I'm going to do some more of that research that I mentioned in my earlier post to try to supplement the survey.</p>

<p>ethanrt: Princeton's undergraduate international relations program is extremely good, particularly because there are so many seminar classes you can take within it (which are really awesome). Plus many (but not all) of the professors are very friendly and accessible. One of the major reasons I chose Princeton, for instance, was that as a visiting high school student one of the IR professors (who is on leave right now as a deputy assistant secretary of state) took 30 minutes of his time after class to just talk about the department with me. Granted, you'll find great professors at any school of Princeton's caliber, but my experiences so far have been extremely positive.</p>