<p>anonymous, i know all that you stated - i even wrote (but oyu couldn't read it) that Jordan slaughtered over 2000 of them and egypt refused to accept them. that's why Israeli goverment supports the establishment of a palestinian state - the arab countries are just using this excuse to hate Israel and maintain a reason for the current goverments to stay in power (say Hizaballah - they have no reason to exist once Israel is no longer in southern Lebanon). most of them are more of "Israel haters" than "palestinian supporters". but still, Israel by definition should maintain a firm jewish majority, It's so annoying I should write I again since I wrote it in the other thread :-(</p>
<p>First of all, you did not even respond to my land controversy. Secondly, it is clear that sharon is a terrorist himself, and it is a shame that he is still ruling Israel. I'd love to dicuss this with you. You think you know all about the conflict, maybe thats in the perspective of a Zionist where all the blame goes to the arabs. Please admit the Jews have their share of faults and they were responsible for the conflict in the first place. I dont wanna overwhelm you with a long post about the entire history and how jews (or zionists) were responsible.</p>
<p>papajohns- I'm not sure how you can show sympathy to the government which harbored Al Qaeda.</p>
<p>papajones - I ADMIT JEWS HAVE THEIR SHARE OF FAULTS! (never claimed jews did it all right) it's clear it takes 2 to tango, but, the way in which pals chose to fight - terror, is unacceptable in any way - you should admit to that. if only once had the pal leadership approached Israel with something other than the "the entire land of Israel for arabs" or any other absurd demand they would have had a land a long time ago.</p>
<p>and with the pope's announcment in reaction the late terror attacks all over the world he "forgot" to mention Israel. now isn't that surprising, in my POV, by criticizing all the terror attacks other than the ones in Israel he shows his support for those attacks - shame on him.</p>
<p>what anonymous said is so true - even though Abu-Mazen seems to be realistic and not as agressive as arafat (who totally and clearly supported the jihad against Israel). - you can't approve of terror in Israel and object it in the US or UK or anywhere else. you should just agree that terror is an unaccepted way of fighting and whoever supports it must be hunted down, it sounds very radical but i believe this new way of gaining political achievments is wrong and should be root out.</p>
<p>^^ I disagree. He's just keeping a distance from the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's too gray.</p>
<p>what's gray about it? you can't walk into a cafe and explode yourself, that is it. if you approve of it in Israel it will come back to you in the UK and US, you can't have it both ways. pals want to fight? fine, Israel has an army, fight the army.</p>
<p>my point is that terror should be stopped anywhere no matter what, yet some find it easy to say it only when it involves the US or UK...</p>
<ul>
<li>and papjones, you should check what's your definitions of "terrorists" before you compare sharon and arafat - trust me i'm the last to support sharon but there is a HUGE difference. arafat is a terrorsit, sharon isn't.</li>
</ul>
<p>He doesn't approve it. Denouncing Palestinians implies Israeli innocence, however.</p>
<p>he should call against terror everywhere and that's it. by pointing out specific locations he obviously conveys the msg that in those places it's wrong - if i see the pope as my guide i believe that if he believed that terror in Israel is wrong he would say so - yet he didn't. he should jsut say something in the sort of "stop terrorsim everywhere" - i don't ask him to take sides - for all I care he might think the entire land should be given to pals, but he should be against terror everywhere. see my point?</p>
<p>I see your point, but in our discussion I also see that mentioning Palestine opens up the can of worms that is this controversy. He didn't want to deal with that, and he's dealing with less flak not mentioning it than he would by mentioning it.</p>
<p>An0nym0u5, you say "Denouncing Palestinians implies Israeli innocence".</p>
<p>Tell me, in what sense is Israel not innocent?
Give me one thing Israel has done that can be equated to what the Palestinians are still doing everyday?</p>
<p>Perhaps the fact that Israel to this very day supplies Palestinians with all their water, electricity is the crime of which you speak? Or perhaps the fact that Israel allows Palestinians to make use of Israeli hospitals (Yes, when CNN shows IDF soldiers holding back pergnant Palestinian women trying to reach hospitals, what they don't tel you is that these are ISRAELI hospitals)?</p>
<p>I am eager to hear what in your judgement makes you believe that Israel is not innocent.</p>
<p>Looks like my friend here has no idea of the Israeli-Palestine conflict. :)</p>
<p>The tanks rolling through Palestinian playgrounds, the indiscriminate shooting during riots, lack of a voice in the Israeli government, the general occupation...</p>
<p>O, and Papajohns, why is Sharon a terrorist exactly?</p>
<p>orrican, come back within 2 hours. I am working on a big post that will clearly answer your question.</p>
<p>Thank you - I am an ISRAELI, so I have much awareness regarding the pal - israeli conflict.</p>
<p>perhaps if suicide bombers murdered your people on a daily basis, in malls, cafes, and busses, you would find these acts to have been legitimate?</p>
<p>Israeli tanks rolling in Palestinian villages... killing children?
Do you have any idea what you're talking about?</p>
<p>How do you think these pal kids get shot? BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS PUT THEM AT THE FRONT LINE OF RIOTS TO THROW ROCKS AT IDF SOlDIERS!</p>
<p>lol, being an Israeli just means you are loaded with bias against the arabs!
Just claiming the Israelis have no fault just shows how unaware you are about the situation. btw, are you a zionist</p>
<p>Try your best to realize this -- Israelis are also terrorists not just the Arabs.</p>
<p>Terrorist acts are never legitimate, but neither is the Israeli occupation of Palestine. I don't see why Israel insists on remaining in Palestine.</p>
<p>O and you've also mentioned the general occupation.</p>
<p>Think for a sec:
Do you think Israelis enjoy the occupation?
Do you think we enjoy sending soldiers there to get killed?</p>
<p>No, but the fact that Tel Aviv is a distance of about 30 miles from Gaza and 20 miles from the west bank is a HUGe security threat! israel reluctantly occupies this area to restrain the terrorism that rages tehre, in the effort of defending Israelis - a right that every nation has.</p>
<p>With the exception of a few incidence (Ie, Sabra and Shatila and more) Israel has consistantly put a strong emphasis on the safety of pals during operations.</p>
<p>But when the IDF enters gaza in search of a terrorist, and riots start up immediately, there is no choice but let the IDF defend themselves!</p>
<p>papajohns - yes I am indeed a Zionist.</p>
<p>And again, saying that Israelis are terrorists is ridiculous and outrageous to say. Look at the effort Israel has made to bring peace. For g-d sakes, Barak offered them 97% of the territories!!!! and yet the pals continue to do everything humanly possible inorder to thwart the peace process (the terrorist groups, that is).</p>
<p>And if you believe that Israeli soldiers defending themselves againts hundereds of rioting pals makes them terrorists, then, my friend, you are a lost case.</p>