<p>Pomona easily leads the nation in fullbrights per capita, I would wager they are as internationally minded as anyone. My point is not meant to take away from Tufts, but to point out that your view of your 'opponent' is mishapen.</p>
<p>Tufts tends to be a little defensive about reputation. "Tufts syndrome" perhaps?</p>
<p>Tufts being a research institute means nothing because thesmiths will be attending for undergrad. And just attending a school for undergrad doesn't guarantee you a spot that school's graduate studies.</p>
<p>It is all about fit. My son goes to Pomona, a totally wonderful college that caters to students and has unlimited opportunities for research and internships, caters to undergraduates as there are no grad students. I graduated from Tufts great school, quite different atmosphere. There is more personalized attention at pomona though for international
relations Tufts is better known. With grad schools and employers Pomona is well known and will open doors. It is an extremely difficult school to be accepted to and that is well known as well.
It comes down to where you feel more comfortable. There is never a dull momment at Pomona. Lots to do in LA and great beaches and so much happens on campus that students often want to stay put. Incredible student trips, such as ski-beach day. Students also live on campus for all 4 years. It is so comfortable for them that students don't move off. By junior yr most students at Tufts will be in apartments. Boston is close by and accesible by a bus/subway ride. Again only you will know which scool supports your learning style and fits. There is a difference in student atmosphere as well at both schools. follow your gut.</p>
<p>Effectivemind, while I understand the tenets of your argument, it is still inherently flawed. Please, as we have done, support your claims with a discrete, quantitative evidence, or credible testimony; I find it equally absurd for you to make your own claims that tufts is stronger than Pomona in chemistry or philosophy. </p>
<p>To make up your own truths like “The reason why Tufts is only number 45 on the list of top feeder schools is that Tufts students are more globally focused than other universities and colleges.” I find ridiculous. 40-50% of tufts students study abroad, but about 50% of Pomona students study abroad as well. Plenty of students go into the peace corps from pomona, and 7% accept fellowships straight out of college.</p>
<p>While Tufts may have graduate schools to draw resources from, these resources are not always available to undergraduates. While you list of Tufts resources “…Can pomona students undertake research one-on-one with faculty from a graduate school in biomedicine or a school of medicine. Can Pomona students take classes at the most prestigious graduate school of international relations in the nation? Can Pomona students study at the only independent graduate school of nutrition in the country that leads the world in research between the way genetics and diet interact? Can Pomona students sit in on lectures at New England's largest Dental School?”... I still don’t find this relevant to thesmiths intended majors of chemistry or philosophy, while we’ve already established that tufts is probably more well-known for international relations. (although International Relations is the major at Pomona where students have earned the most fullbright scholarships <a href="http://www.pomona.edu/cdo/2007wheregradsgo.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.pomona.edu/cdo/2007wheregradsgo.pdf</a> ). Pomona earned 3 fulbrights in IR, 4 if you count Russian and Eastern European studies as one while tufts earned 6 in IR. However, tufts undergraduate student body is about 3 times the size of Pomona. Interesting. </p>
<p>If Tufts were as small as Pomona its acceptance rate would most likely be around 16 percent as well - if not lower. - Another solidly derived conclusion… </p>
<p>And the reason why Pomona's stats are so high is that there are very few highly regarded private colleges on the west coast. Therefore, many accomplished potential college students who want to stay relatively close to home apply there. Again, this would be a valid argument if it were true, but only about 33% of Pomona students are from in-state. 44% of Stanford’s students are from in-state. I find it hard to believe that a school like stanford’s reputation is built on the expectation that talented California students do not wish to go too far from home. Besides, reaching Pomona from northern California is nearly the same as reaching tufts from anywhere in new England- could you not make the same argument same for tufts then? The merit and selectivity of schools like Pomona and Stanford are not derived from their selecting talented applicants that live close to the school, but by their ability to attract talented students from all over the united states. </p>
<p>Finally, Why does it matter if the layperson has not heard of Pomona. Unless this person is an employer or graduate school, why should it matter, unless you like throwing prestige around. As I do not take it that thesmiths’s primary concern is prestige, I’d say this is a null argument.</p>
<p>I'm sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes by stating the fact that Tufts is better in those departments. It's true. … Again, defend this please. I am genuinely interested to see how Tufts chemistry department would yield a greater opportunities to an undergraduate during studies or after graduation.</p>
<p>Personally, I would take Pomona over Tufts any day of the week and I am not a big LAC person. And sorry effectivemind in California it is Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, Pomona and USC. East coast bias reigns again. Tufts might be on par with USC but not Pomona. That said, this seems more about where you will fit. Given that you have been an NYC'er all your life you might not want the LAC environment or Pomona. You will need a car to really get the L.A. experience, but Claremont is a very nice suburban community and it is about 20 min from Pasadena, and 30-35 min from Downtown without traffic. I think you have to ask yourself what you want. The city campus life or the LAC experience, although unlike many LAC's Pomona is accessible to a major metropolitan area. Have you checked out Pomona's admissions videos? They are pretty thorough and quite informative and I don't know many campuses that can offer a snow/beach day in the matter of hours. ;-)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Tufts being a research institute means nothing because thesmiths will be attending for undergrad.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>...and these days, undergrads do research. I had two years of research experience in world-class labs by the time I graduated.</p>
<p>I didn't actually mean that it being a research institute was necessarily a plus, though (I think it is, but I realize that a lot of people have different preferences and priorities). All I meant to say was that being a research institute doesn't make it a huge school as people seem to think. I'm there as a grad student right now, and live a few blocks from the school, and it is definitely not a huge school; it is in fact pretty small.</p>
<p>Tufts just announced a loan repayment program for those that enter public service or work for a tax-exempt organization.It will be partially based on you income from the organization.</p>
<p>Thus, if you end up working for the state or federal government or tax exempt organization, Tufts could be a really good deal.</p>
<p>Many excellent (and accurate) points made above in support of Pomona.</p>
<p>My thoughts:</p>
<p>Although Pomona is small (1,500 students), it is physically on the same campus as CMC, Harvey Mudd, Scripps, and Pitzer, with about 6,000 total students. Pomona students can cross-register in any other school and the meal card is good for any of the schools' dining halls. So it feels like a 6,000 student school. Remember Tufts is around 5,000.</p>
<p>Second Point: Fulbright Awards are a good marker of interest in international studies, regarded as one of the most prestigious international award programs worldwide. Pomona students received 25 awards this year LAC</a> ranking. Tufts received 13 University</a> ranking. Harvard had only 21. Given it's size, Pomona has more awards per capita, by far, than any University or LAC in the country.</p>
<p>Third, take rankings with a grain of salt, perhaps, but Pomona is the #7 ranked LAC in USNWR. . And neighboring CMC is #11 and HMC #15. Tufts is #28 University.</p>
<p>Having said that, I believe Tufts is more "up and coming" than Pomona, and is a "hot" school right now. Pomona has been a stable top-10 ranked LAC for many years. Visit and decide. Good luck.</p>
<p>I think Tufts would be the choice too b/c 1) Boston and 2) they have a really good rep in international relations</p>
<p>at Harvey Mudd, which has arguably the best undergraduate chemistry program in the country so whatever edge Tufts has vis a vis Pomona in this regard is moot.</p>
<p>I don't know if there's an east coast bias present here, but it might help if you ask yourself this: which school would you choose, Amherst/Swarthmore or Tufts? </p>
<p>By itself, Pomona is on the same level as Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore, but A & S are probably more similar to Pomona because each belongs in a consortium.</p>
<p>In general, LACs can't compete with larger research universities on resources, but Pomona is an exception. It's right next to one of the best or the best school to study the sciences as an undergrad and it has a graduate school next door.</p>
<p>With regard to philosophy, Tufts has the edge, but you really can't go wrong academically with either school so it might be best to focus on fit, campus life, climate, etc. I mean at this point, debating which school is academically stronger in what is like debating whether you'd prefer to be Bill Gates or Warren Buffett.</p>
<p>Warren Buffett.</p>
<p>Warren Buffett attended Harvard... no, Stanford... no, U of Chicago... no Wharton.. not, Amherst... no... hmmm</p>
<p>University of Nebraska.</p>
<p>what is the WB reference for? Is he a supporter of Pomona in some way?</p>
<p>P.S. EffectiveMind: I am not a Pomona alum, or student. I am Stanford/UCLA. My posts suporting of Pomona stem from some comments about prestige among the general public, and a sense I got from a few posts that the writers weren't up to speed on how outstanding the students and faculty are at Pomona/CMC/Harvey Mudd. I appreciate of a world class undergraduate education. I have no reason to be biased. The Claremont Consortium colleges are hidden gems.</p>
<p>^I took it as a joke regarding WB. </p>
<p>WB did graduate from Columbia with an MBA. He made money because of sensible midwestern background.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am not a Pomona alum, or student.
[/quote]
Neither am I. But have worked near Pomona and Tufts.</p>
<p>Pomona is not Amherst or Swarthmore. Pomona is more like Haverford or Davidson in my opinion, which are both excellent colleges in their own right. I visited all 5 during my college search (well, I visited like a billion before finally falling in love with Tufts). And I think there are many students who choose Tufts over Amherst or Swarthmore and vice versa. Most students who are accepted to Tufts could have gotten into Amherst or Swarthmore. Tufts is a university, not an LAC and a lot of people prefer that. My cousin's best friend (he has a really cool red beard...that's really all I can ever remember about him) was accepted to Dartmouth and Penn but chose Tufts.</p>
<p>Pomona has SAT median similar to Williams and Amherst and above Haverford and Davidson.</p>
<p>EffectiveMind, your anecdotal evidence and baseless claims are becoming ridiculous. Your demeaning Pomona, then saying it's still a good school in it's own right is becoming pointless. </p>
<p>Of the other 3 LACs listed (you referred to Amherst and Swarthmore, well i just threw in Williams since it's the "#1 ranked LAC" according to USNWR)pomona has the highest 25% SAT scores, higher median SAT than swarthmore (only other median SAT available), lowest acceptance rate, and a comparative yeild with the other 3 LACs. If you're talking about fit, then sure, someone could want to go to tufts over anywhere else, and im sure plenty do, But academically, i'm sorry, but tufts is just a notch below those Pomona and the other three. I'm not going to bring up random, unsupported reputations, like tufts being the ivy reject school, so please do everyone the same courtesy by not continually under-evaluating the merit of pomona. </p>
<p>Pomona: 2060-2280 median SAT: 2190 acceptance rate: 18% yield: 39%
Amherst: 2000-2290 acceptance rate: 19% yield: 38%
Swarthmore: 2040-2300 median SAT: 2170 acceptance rate: 19% yield: 40%
Williams:2000-2280 acceptance rate: 19% yield: 47%</p>
<p>Tufts: 2010-2230 median SAT: 2106 acceptance rate: 28% yield: 31%</p>
<p>USNews.com:</a> America's Best Colleges 2008: Lowest acceptance rates
<a href="http://www.pomona.edu/Admissions/otherinformation/classprofiles/2011profile.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.pomona.edu/Admissions/otherinformation/classprofiles/2011profile.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.pomona.edu/institutionalresearch/collegedata/CDS0708.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.pomona.edu/institutionalresearch/collegedata/CDS0708.htm</a>
<a href="https://cms.amherst.edu/media/view/36999/original/Book4.pdf%5B/url%5D">https://cms.amherst.edu/media/view/36999/original/Book4.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/ir/cds2007.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/ir/cds2007.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.williams.edu/admin/provost/ir/CDS2007_2008.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/admin/provost/ir/CDS2007_2008.pdf</a>
<a href="http://institutionalresearch.tufts.edu/downloads/FactBook2007-08Abridged.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://institutionalresearch.tufts.edu/downloads/FactBook2007-08Abridged.pdf</a></p>
<p>Okay..wow...I was not referring to SATs or stats...I was referring to the overall feel of the college...to me Pomona felt more like Haverford or Davidson than Amherst or Williams...notice how I said "in my opinion". I am not "demeaning Pomona" or trying to. POMONA IS A GOOD COLLEGE. I spent the time and money to fly from Maine to California. I had the opportunity to visit one college in Cal after visiting Stanford, and I chose to visit Pomona over Caltech. I thought Pomona was a nice college, but I'm not going to lie..it's not my cup of tea. But that's just me.</p>
<p>And your assertion that Tufts is a notch below Pomona is absurd. If you want to split hairs (which you are) then you will notice that William's (the #1 ranked LAC) has almost the same median SAT scores as Tufts. And the strength of SAT scores, although they are fairly high at Tufts, cannot apply to Tufts as much as they might to other colleges. Tufts has a completely different admissions approach. They ask questions like "which do you like better: Guerillas or Gorillas?" and look for qualities such as practicality, creativity, wisdom, etc. </p>
<p>Yes, I did my research - Tufts does have more resources for undergrads than Pomona in a quantitative sense. And, yes, every Tufts student has the opportunity to take classes at Fletcher and the school of nutrition, sit in on lectures at the dental, vet, medical, and biomedical schools, undertake research with faculty from the school of medicine and sackler school of biomedicine if he/she chooses to contact the faculty member and fill out an application detailing his/her idea for research. The opportunities I've listed above are just the tip of the iceberg. The opportunities for research and collaboration with faculty at Tufts are numerous and span many areas of education. I'm sure, even considering Pomona's size that the same can apply, just the opportunities are not vast. That's just an essential difference between an LAC and a research university.</p>
<p>It's stupid to argue back and forth over whether or not Pomona or Tufts is the better college. Out of 3600 institutions of higher education in American, both Tufts' and Pomona's stats and the resources that they offer place them in the top 2-3 percent of colleges.</p>
<p>Let's just agree to disagree.</p>
<p>i'm fine with that.</p>
<p>If you are lucky enough to be accepted at Pomona, you should think long and hard before you pass it over.</p>