Pomona vs. UPenn vs. Columbia vs. Pitt Honors vs. UF Honors for Physics

Hey friends,

My college selection process ultimately boils down to the question, “Should I go to a liberal arts college, an Ivy in a city, a research university that gave me a scholarship, or my state university? And at what cost?”

After college, if I attend Pitt, I’d have ~$28,000 in loans, and if I attend the other colleges, I’d have ~$42,000 in loans (hahahahahahahahahahahahah).

As for major, I’m leaning towards the life sciences or physics/astrophysics, though I have not done any scientific research in high school. Post-college plans are also unclear; however, if I’m pursuing the sciences, I’d probably apply to med school or grad school for engineering.

I feel like the small, friendly environment of Pomona will allow me to find friends and forge relationships with professors more easily than in research universities. However, I’m wondering if the environment where I’ll have to struggle for resources/attention will make me learn how to adapt to similar situations in the “real world;” I’m also wondering if that struggle would be worth it.

Finally, location. All the colleges seem to be located in fun and interesting places, though I am leaning towards the colleges near/in cities primarily because of concerts (lol) and also because of internship/job opportunities. However — though I have no idea whether this is important — Pomona and Penn are not located near any close relatives/friends I know. On the other hand, UF is close to my parents, Columbia is close to many of my friends, and Pitt is close to some friends/relatives.

A few thoughts:

  • you’ll make new friends in college and will probably spend most of your time with them, so don’t heavily factor in proximity to current friends/relatives
  • the small environment at Pomona, plus the ability to cross-enroll at other Claremont colleges like Mudd, make this the top choice in my books – it’s as good as Columbia or Penn, and much smaller.
  • you’ll have enough struggling in the real world, I’m not sure that having to add the extra burden of struggling for resources/attention in college on top of a demanding curriculum is worth it
  • considering your post-grad plans, only $14K difference in debt between Pitt and Pomona definitely make it worth it to go to Pomona (or Penn/Columbia).

If it were me, I’d choose in this order: Pomona, Columbia, Penn, UF, Pitt

At Penn, you definitely will not have to struggle for resources at all. Penn is a large research university, of course, though the College of arts and sciences is a liberal arts college within that. Class sizes are small, professors are excited to be teaching undergrads and they are exceptionally accessible. Because of Penn’s One University Policy, Penn’s resources are more available to undergrads than perhaps any of Penn’s peers’ resources would be to their undergrads simply because there is an expectation at Penn that undergrads will take classes, do research, or at the very least, study in the libraries of the other undergraduate, graduate and professional schools. At Penn you will be assigned a pre-major advisor, a peer advisor, and an advisor in the College office even before your first day of class. I’ll never forget my first phone call with my pre-major advisor. I was choosing classes over the summer and she Skyped with me from outside of the US where she was doing research onsite before the school year actually began. On day one of Penn, I went to her office and we had a formal sit down and follow up from our conversations earlier in the summer. And In addition to those specifically assigned to you, your College house will also have a faculty member who lives in the College House and acts as “House Dean.” They are there to provide informal advice and support even beyond the RA that will be assigned to your specific hall. There are so many people at Penn tripping over themselves to support you that you won’t know who to turn to first.

If you want to be in a city for college than I DEFINITELY recommend Penn. The balance between Penn’s 300 acre campus in the heart of Philadelphia with the city itself is ideal. Penn is a fully self contained world that feels like it is far removed from the hustle and bustle of philly at times. Yet, the center of Philadelphia is a short walk from University City where Penn is located. Neither Philly nor Penn’s campus is so big or overwhelming as to overpower the other. Instead you have a healthy amount of opportunities to take advantage of both, simultaneously. The internships made available through think tanks, research centers, the City of Philadelphia, the financial institutions, and more are so readily accessible to Penn students. Columbia, conversely, is tucked away in the corner of Manhattan’s Upper Upper Upper West Side. It takes about 25-30 minutes by subway just to get to hells kitchen, assuming there are no delays. In that same amount of time in Philly, you will have been able to walk to Rittenhouse Square and back.

As for the quality of your education, I don’t think it will differ from that offered by Columbia in terms of classes. But again, Penn’s one university policy will allow you to take classes and do research across the university’s undergrad, grad and professional schools in a way that will open up new insights into your education that you might not find elsewhere. And if you’re interested in med school, keep in mind that the most represented students at Penn Med (a top 3 med school) are graduates of Penn undergrad. And pre-med culture at Penn is surprisingly collaborative. Students often form study groups and book "Group Study Rooms’ or GSRs with one another in order to prepare for class and tests. Penn also has, as most colleges do, specific advisors for pre-med students. And keep in mind that the student to faculty ratio at Penn and Columbia is actually lower than that of Pomona (Penn/Columbia are 6:1 whereas Pomona is 8:1). I think you will find that at Penn, you are very well supported and the administration, professors, and peers you meet will be part of your success rather than a hindrance to it.

Please let me know if you have any questions about Penn. I happily chose Penn over (primarily) Yale and Columbia and it was the best decision I ever made. Good luck with your choice! :slight_smile:

What’s your parents’ budget and what’s the net cost for each?

@insanedreamer Thank you for answering! I do like Pomona for the fact that it’s a small college with larger resources than the average liberal arts college.

@PennCAS2014 Thank you for your long, detailed, and thoughtful response! Every person I’ve talked to who has attended Penn or is attending Penn has had nothing to say but positive things, and it helps to know that there exists a support system among professors and students. I’ve never heard of the One University policy, but broader options for courses are definitely, definitely a plus! Is it easy or difficult to get a research position/grant?

@MYOS1634 I stated the loan amount based on my dad’s estimate of the budget (since he’s the sole breadwinner of our family), which is $8000. Our household income is ~100K after taxes. The net prices for all the colleges except Pitt and UF (if I get a Bright Futures scholarship) is ~$20,000; Pitt is ~$15,000; and UF (with Bright Futures) is ~$17,000. I will definitely have to discuss with him about his budget (after all, I don’t want to be drowning in debt). Would you happen to know if our family would save any money because they don’t need to “take care” of me anymore come college (aka no need to buy as much food, no need to pay for extracurriculars, they might move to a smaller house)? Also — would you happen to know if $8,000 is a proper estimate of the budget given our household income?

@memelover it is INCREDIBLY easy to get a research position (a little bit harder to get a grant). It depends on what type of research you are most interested in doing. At Penn you have the option of joining a pre-existing project being conducted by a faculty member in any one of Penn’s graduate, undergraduate, and professional schools; alternatively, you can come up with your own research proposal and find a faculty member willing to sponsor you. Or you can go it alone and do your own independent research using Penn’s facilities. Penn has the Center for Undergraduate Research and Fellowships (CURF) that specifically connects undergrads to these opportunities. It is a fully staffed office with administrators and faculty members interested in ensuring that you find a project that fits your academic interests. Penn receives more funding for research than almost all of it’s peers and research in the sciences is exceptionally accessible to undergrads at Penn because ALL of penn’s schools, institutes and hospitals are right on one, contiguous campus. While at other schools you might have to travel a few miles to get to your research position, at penn it is as simple as rolling out of bed and walking across the quad. Furthermore, professors doing this much research are DESPERATE for undergrads to join them because they need the extra help. Most of the projects are highly substantive and the close relationship you will build with your faculty mentor will serve you well far into your career. Please let me know if you would like me to elaborate or if this adequately answers your question. I can go on and on about undergrad research at Penn- it’s truly an outstanding place to pursue your interests!

@PennCAS2014 Again, thank you so much for the detailed answer! It’s difficult to research about accessibility, so a personal and experienced answer really does help. Since I don’t have so much research experience, I can’t think up much else to ask, but if you feel like you need to add anything more, please feel free to PM/reply on the thread! Also ngl your answers are making me more hype to attend Quaker Days next week

@memelover I’m glad! Penn is honestly an amazing place. I hope you LOVE quaker days. Even if you don’t though, I wouldn’t worry. I personally hated every admitted students day I attended haha. The format rarely jives with my personality as I kind of prefer to explore on my own rather than to take part in these overly formalized events. But with that being said, try to learn as much as you can and look at the students who are unaffiliated with the program as well as those officially there to support you. That’s where you’ll learn the most. Have an amazing time! And feel free to reach out with any questions you have or with questions that arise after Quaker Days. Also, if you sneak away for a second and want to grab something to eat-- definitely go to a food cart. The absolute best are magic carpet and Hemo’s… I am literally salivating just thinking about it

Your parents will receive $2,500 in AOTC (tax credit because you’re in college), which is supposed to be used to help your family help pay for college in addition to what they already stated. And yes since you’ll live and eat at school, they’ll save on that account when you’re not home, but not much.
Most families who make 100K would be expected to contribute 20K or so, which is what you end up with at most colleges. But each family’s different, and you may have a family member who’s ill, debt to repay, depleted retirement fund, etc.

What did you end up choosing?

@woahitsnicole All three being wonderful schools, my consideration process boiled down to subjective factors — and I ended up choosing Columbia! Which is weird, considering both Penn and Pomona subsidized my preview trips (Penn gave me a free sleeping bag; Pomona gave me a MATTRESS) while Columbia did not (no sleeping bag either — I had to bring one). In fact, Columbia was at the bottom of my list when I received my acceptances — after reading articles about the different colleges, I thought it would be between Penn and Pomona. I read about how Columbia, unlike Penn and Pomona, was a stressful and isolating place — one where you could easily disappear — and I feared that. But when I visited the three campuses, I felt the very opposite. Penn felt too huge (I had people I met the previous day forget who I was the next day), while Pomona felt too small. But Columbia, well, felt just right.