Pre Calc Dual Enrollment to Increase Ivy League Chances?

I’m looking at taking Pre-Calc over the summer in order to take AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC my Junior year to help prepare for AP Physics Senior Year- I’ve heard that a lot of Physics concepts are based in Calculus. Unfortunately, there are no Pre-Calc classes in the college classroom, so I’d have to take it online through a college in my state. How rigorous is this course over the summer? I’m have an active summer and can only take it if it fits in with my schedule.

FWIW: Both my kids took Pre-Calc junior year in high school and then AP Calc BC senior year. As I remember them telling it, Pre-Calc was more theatrical and didn’t have much to do with Calc. Both thought they could have skipped Pre-Calc and would have been just fine going straight to Calc BC.

I’m quite sure that @gibby is not advising the OP to skip pre-calc based upon his sample size of n=2, especially considering Stuyvesant is not a typical HS (nor was my HS for that matter). :slight_smile:

This is really a HS specific question. Many high schools use the last quarter (or more) of pre-calc to get a head start on the AP AB material, so there is no blanket answer to the OP’s question without looking at the syllabi for all the HS math classes.

I will, however, also state that the OP can take pre-calc as a junior and AP Calc and AP Physics as a senior, which is what most advanced students taking AP Physics do. No Ivy League college, or any other college, gives brownie points to applicants who take AP Calc as a junior.

The reason I’m looking to take AP Calc AB and BC Junior Year is because I’ve heard that students who take at the minimum AB before AP Physics tend to do better at my school, and I plan to take AP Physics Senior Year.

The second main reason is scheduling- it would mess up my schedule to try to take two AP Calc classes Senior Year. Assuming I take the appropriate prerequisites, here is what I hope to take the next two years:

Junior-

  1. AP Calc AB
  2. AP Calc BC
  3. AP US History
  4. AP European History
  5. AP Language
  6. AP Biology/ AP Environmental Science/ AP Music Theory (Still Deciding)
  7. French III
  8. Drama

Senior-

  1. AP Physics
  2. AP Macroeconomics
  3. AP Literature
  4. AP French
    5-8. Upper Level Eng or Social Studies DE classes

As it stands, this is my ideal schedule, but I would need summer Pre-Calc to make it work. Is it worth it? If not, what would you change?

Why would you concurrently take Calc AB and Calc BC?

Calc BC includes everything in Calc AB, plus a few extra topics – so it’s basically taking the SAME COURSE twice, but one course includes a bit more stuff. My suggestion: Keep Calc BC and REPLACE Calc AB with another course. See: http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/public/courses/220300.html

I wouldn’t be taking AB and BC concurrently- AB would be taken as a block fall semester, and BC as a block spring semester.

I don’t think you need to live like this, frankly. It really is fine to take calculus and AP physics as a senior- at least at most schools. Another thing: many students who get 5’s on AP physics choose to take the intro course in college anyway.

Your user name is “lookingtoHarvard” which is a little worrisome :slight_smile: I don’t think Harvard will care as much as you think about some of these things. And rather than tailoring your schedule for admissions, try to take what interests you and leave some time for other things too.

Your fear that not taking calculus as a junior will cause lower grades in physics which will then cause you to be rejected by Harvard is not well-founded and might just be overthinking things a little.

. There are many great schools out there and with your obvious intelligence and drive, you will land in a great place.

Your summer sounds like it will be full. Hope you enjoy it!

Although one should not make AP choices based solely upon one’s dream school. and the user name of lookingforHarvard is troublesome, note that at Harvard, even with a 5 on the AP physics exam, you would still need to take the intro course if planning to take any physics.

Anyway, I still go back to my earlier point that it is fine to take AP Calc and AP Physics as a senior. In fact, the OP’s plan omits any math senior year, which is troublesome, IMO.

I realized I haven’t placed a math for senior year- I guess I forgot to do it. I’m now debating between AP Stats and a DE upper level math course. What different math courses are above the equivalent of College Calculus I or II? At that, what upper level Social Studies and English courses would look good beyond the standard APs?

FWIW, my username is lookingtoHarvard as it is my dream school, not the only school I’m planning on applying to- I have several other options, but Harvard is my number one choice. All the classes I’m scheduled for right now I do enjoy or want to learn about in some capacity- it’s just a matter of preparation for Physics that I was mainly concerned about.

I appreciate the help.

It depends on the college, but it usually some combination of multivariable calculus/differential equations/linear algebra.

Whichever ones interest you. Choosing courses based upon what “looks good” is just folly - colleges will not care.

We are basically trying to tell you that all this maneuvering is not necessary (or perhaps healthy). It also shows a misunderstanding of the priorities of college admissions offices. Just take calculus in senior year, with physics. As skieurope said, you will most likely repeat these classes in college depending on your major.

Instead of trying to exceed “standard AP’s”, do something that really interests you, expresses who you are, or is of service to someone.

I hope you will think about why Harvard is your dream school. It is a great school, but there are many great schools out there. Not worth twisting yourself into a pretzel over :slight_smile: Often people who say Harvard is their “dream school” lack information on other schools, and I hope that isn’t true of you. If it is, do some research and think about fit.

If you are set on looking into higher math classes, a fair minority of Harvard freshmen, particularly those who come from stronger schools, come in having already taken some multivariable calc, linear algebra or have some working knowledge of the two - particularly those who elect to take the higher proof-based/honors-type math classes in freshman year (Math 23/25/55).

But this is by no means something necessary - according to the Crimson’s incoming Class of 2020 survey here:
http://features.thecrimson.com/2016/freshman-survey/academics/

The majority (>70%) had only taken up to Calc AB or BC.