Thank you!
Since it is your child going to college, and I have to assume he/she is 18, have you asked your child what he/she is interested in? Is medicine your dream or your childâs? The reason I ask this is because kids interested in BS/MD programs are typically egged on by someone. Frankly, I am very surprised that someone whose kid applied to BS/MD programs has such limited knowledge about admissions, requirements etc. Not trying to be unreasonable here but I am at a loss.
I personally worked with someone (now retired) who literally egged his two sons to get MD degrees. Both are internal medicine doctors now, make ~$200K per year with the same amount of debt and absolutely hate their lives. They are married with kids and have pretty much cut off all contacts with this former coworker of mine. I also know another doctor who went back to academic medicine because this person cannot afford college for 4 kids and the university offers a nice deal for employees with college kids (tuition exchange/reimbursement).
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^^Nicely said.
There is great deal of job dissatisfaction among physicians right now. Itâs one of the reasons why 1 in 5 physicians plan to quit their jobs in the next 5 year.
Also medicine has become increasingly corporatized --meaning that for-profit entities are buying up hospitals and medical practices. Doctors for the most part no longer work for themselves; they work for an investment capital firm.
Nationally, physician income is declining in almost all specialties.
And employment saturation is happening in many of more desirable areas to live/major cities & their suburbs. This further depresses the salaries a young physician can expect to earn.
There is even a national oversupply of physicians in some specialties. (radiation oncology, emergency medicine, for example.)
Medicine is high stress field where seeking mental health help is frowned upon. The suicide rate among physicians is very high-- more than twice that of their age peers and the highest of any profession
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Well that paints a fairly bleak pictureâŠ
Itâs all why someone needs to really want to do the job, not the money, not the high status, not because of some TV show they loved. They have to love the job in order to make it worthwhile.
We talked with our guy quite a bit about all of this ahead of time, and more than once. He loves what he does - even with the bad points of the job.
Teaching is similar in one needing to both like it and be good at it, but not nearly the time or money commitment ahead of time.
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Here is the most important piece of advice anyone can offer a pre-med:
If there is any other profession you think would be happy doingâplease, go do that.
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This canât be said often enough!
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Are your kids not happy with their professional life, if you donât mind me asking? No profession is perfect. The only downside I see is loans âŠbut if everyone thinks the same, we will have no doctorsâŠI think we are in need of good physicians,ofcourse everything needs hardwork, dedication âŠno free lunchesâŠonly the deserving will go thru âŠwith some element of luck /randomness
I would take examples of happy physiciansâŠ
@Aum2022 the doctors in my family are happy with their decisions. But I will sayâŠthey gave those decisions a LOT of thought. NO BS/MD because at age 17 or so they really had no idea what they wanted to do for a career. None applied directly out of undergrad school eitherâŠas they wanted to take the time to make an informed decision about this commitment and what it was going to take in time, personal commitment, etc. before they applied to medical school.
And yes, they all had a Plan B that would have worked for them in the event medical school didnât happen.
My personal opinionâŠit takes this kind of forward thinking to make a good decision about whether becoming a doctor is what you really want to do.
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Medicine has its ups and downs.
They love their profession, but the day-to-day reality of it grinds you down.
Itâs the lack of quality sleep. The lack of normal work hours. Itâs the 60+ hour work weeks. Itâs being treated like an interchangeable widget by your hospital administration. Itâs being told that you can only spend 15 minutes with a patient even though you may need more time to ferret out what their problem is because thatâs all the insurance company will reimburse you for. Itâs being strung along on the junior partner track where you take all the shifts no senior member wants in hopes of being asked to join the practice, but the practice group hasnât hired a new senior partner in a decade. Itâs the lack of respect from patients who will argue with you about their treatment because they consulted Dr. Google and it told them they should be taking X drug or getting Y treatment when those are wildly inappropriate for their condition. Itâs watching young healthy individuals die day after day. Itâs spending your free afternoon off catching up on your patient charting instead of playing with your kids or going to watch your childâs recital or sporting event. Itâs never being able to know if youâll have to miss your childâs birthday party or parent-teacher meeting because something happened at work and you have to go in. Itâs taking emergency calls in the middle of night. Itâs working a 28 hours shift with only 12 hours off before having to report back to work.
And because theyâre women physicians, there are countless other small indignitiesâlike being called âHey Missy,â Or Girlie. Or Sweetheart. Honey. Babydoll. By staff members as as well as patients. Itâs male doctors being addressed as Dr. ABC by colleagues , but women physicians called by their first names by those same colleagues. Itâs being mistaken for a nurse, med tech, PA even once for janitorial services. Itâs receiving lower patient ratings just because youâre female although the patients received identical care for the identical condition. (Patient satisfaction ratings affect your reimbursement rates.) And at one hospital where one daughter works, women physicians cannot access the surgical lounge or on-call rooms because to do so one needs to walk through the menâs locker room with its open showers and public urinals. Instead women physicians have to go up 3 floors from the surgical suites and use the nursesâ locker room to change before and after surgery. (BTW, this hospital is fairly new. Built in the 90s.)
So they have a love-hate relationship with medicine.
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Or how aboutâŠyou get four weeks of vacation per yearâŠand you request only one specific weekâŠand are toldâŠNO.
That is really sad to knowâŠfemale doctors being Paid less and respected less âŠsomething we need to address as a societyâŠdespiteâŠbeing⊠a developed country and is a debate in itself.
I understand your concerns and totally see your pointâŠbut I think it is not the same everywhere -in terms of every state or hospital so to speakâŠmay be in more measure where your daughters are practicingâŠ
so what I see is not a problem with âmedicineâ as a professionâŠbut a deep rooted problem in the way society treats womenâŠ
No, it is everywhere, not just where @WayOutWestMom daughters are.
â No, it is everywhere, not just where @WayOutWestMom daughters are.â
Agree.
The entire first paragraph of my complaints list are not unique to female physicians. They are universal issues that all doctors experience.
Only the second paragraph has issues that are unique to women physicians.
Healthcare delivery in the US has many, many systemic issues. I hear med school applicants, med students and young doctors frequently say it needs to be blown up and completely replaced.
But thatâs not likely to happen in anytime in the next 50 years.
Some introductory reading on whatâs wrong with healthcare in the US
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Women and those not WASP. My guy is WASP and has told me he often had to redirect patients to a female doctor or person of color when he was a med school student. Even after he had done that sometimes the patient would still treat him as if he were the person in charge. He feels for those doctors. They told him theyâre used to it, but it still has to be frustrating.
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Are certified clinical experiences (EMT , CNA) considered better by medical school admissions? over hospice volunteering or other clinic /hospital based patient interactions?
You need to do bothâŠa patient contact jobâŠand volunteer work.
I personally think CNA work is a great way to go because you have real patient contact every time you work.
What other âhospital based patient interactionsâ are you talking about!
Thanks. I am talking about clinical experience of any kind, in which patient interactions occur. So one can volunteer in a hospice ( not administrative) or a clinic (pediatrics/ ob gyn outpatient clinics) or a volunteering in ED with patient interaction. These do not need any additional time commitment/ certifications to be done over semesters. And you still get to interact with patients and make it meaningful. However, now looks like certified courses, that need studying (adding to pre med courses) are becoming more popular. People do courses in community colleges and then volunteer/ jobs. So the good old regular clinical experiences âŠlike I said before,âŠnot sure if they are considered good enough any more. Any medical students or pre- meds with personal experiences, if here, your opinion will be helpful.
Thanks