<p>So, I read the FAQ about coursework, and I feel like some of my questions are still partially unanswered.</p>
<p>1) 1 year of English:
Yale requires 2 semester-long writing classes as a part of their general education requirements; however, not all of them are English classes. For instance, I took a music class this semester that counted as a writing class because it was writing-intensive. Do these kinds of courses fulfill the English requirement? Will they be looked down upon as simply an easy way out of writing (although that's certainly not why I took it, personally)?</p>
<p>2) 1 year of Gen Chem:
So, I skipped to Orgo my freshman year, and I'm confused about what to do with gen chem. If I remember correctly, the FAQ said that med schools allow higher level courses to replace such requirements. So, if I take 1 year of physical chemistry and a total of 1 year of non-orgo lab (i.e. one semester of physical, one semester of inorganic, something like that), will that fulfill the requirement? Is this the case for all/most med schools?</p>
<p>And the topic of physical chemistry leads me to one last question ... the FAQ poster recommended not taking extra chemistry or physics or math ... if these are areas I am potentially interested in, is it worth sacrificing them or putting them off for the sake of attaining a better GPA or MCAT?</p>
<p>*Yale requires 2 semester-long writing classes as a part of their general education requirements; however, not all of them are English classes. For instance, I took a music class this semester that counted as a writing class because it was writing-intensive. Do these kinds of courses fulfill the English requirement? *</p>
<p>I had the same question because Bama has this same requirement. Students have to take at least 6 credits of intensive writing in 300/400 level classes, but the classes don’t have to be in the English dept…they can be in the major, minor, or honors. These special writing classes have a “W” (writing) designation. </p>
<p>Since my son took AP English, he got out of the two Frosh Comp classes, but he will have 6 credits in intensive writing for Chem Engineering, plus he took an extra writing intensive class in the honors college. So, he’ll have 9 credits in writing. All are 300/400 level courses with W designation. None are in the English dept.</p>
<p>your best source of info is Yale’s premed office (since they will know explicitly how Y’s writing courses are evaluated.) Plus, it’s one of the reasons you are spending the big bucks!.</p>
<p>Dunno about general Chem.</p>
<p>If you like Chem, take upper division Chem courses. Yale has plenty of grade inflation, so it shouldn’t hurt your gpa much.</p>
<p>1) It may be better to take a class offered by the English department. It is rumored that AMCAS relies on the department name to decide whether it is an English class. If you would rather not take a pure English class, isn’t there some classes that emphasize othe interests (e.g., performing art, environmental or even food) but are still offered by the English department?</p>
<p>2)Yes, you could take upper-division chemistry classes.You are likely a chem or mb&b major, aren’t you?! (Have you taken McBride’s freshman orgo, or the regular one? If the former, the rumor has it that you may need to learn a little bit other topics by yourself for MCAT but orgo has been de-emphasized on MCAT in recent years so it may not be a big deal.)</p>
<p>Along the premed track, you will likely see many premeds who are not much into math or even physics. If you are naturally good at these, these FAQs do not apply to you. But you do need to know that the high-level math or upper-level physics is a step more advanced than that at AP level. If you have the stomach for Math 230 or intensive introductory physics in freshman year, like some science nerds do, you should not avoid these classes.</p>
<p>Regarding the timing of taking physical chem, this depends on whether you are a chem major or mb&b, or whether you really want to shine on these science foundation topics (e.g., you are interested in MD/PhD programs.) Isn’t physical chemistry the very first non-prereq class that the chemistry department wants you to take? On the other hand, MB&B has a physical chemistry lite (still an official physical chem class, unlike chem 118 which is between gen chem and p-chem super-lite :)) for those who do not like the quantum chemistry stuff. Chem 332 may require more math than just mutli-var. calculus. Heck, that course likely welcomes students from physics, chemistry or even engineering department, more than any other majors which are popular among premeds.</p>
<p>Many mb&b majors do take p-chem in senior year (as their last pure science class) esp. those who are not into the 2-semester version of p-chem offered by the chem department. Many students do not see the point of taking biophyics for just one semester at the undergraduate level but reluctantly takes it just because they do not want to take the second-half of chem 332.</p>
<p>Same boat. Son skipped to Orgo and skipped over Gen Bio as well. He’s taken the 300/400 level bio and chem classes, but made sure that they had labs (some 300/400 bio and chem classes don’t have labs)</p>
<p>We think he’s fine doing this. We’ll still have to figure out the English deal. He may have to take a summer class to fit in an extra English class. Ugh. I hope med schools won’t care if an English class is taken at a local CC during the summer. </p>
<p>So, what’s the deal…if you use your APs and take the next level up, do you have to do a class for each substitution? What I mean is…if you got AP credit for Bio I and Bio II, then do you have to take 2 more Bio classes, or just one bio class at the next level?</p>
<p>Off topic, but does anyone know…</p>
<p>Are engineering majors invited into Phi Beta Kappa? My older son ( a math major) was inducted into PBK, but younger son (the pre-med son) is a ChemE major. So, we were wondering if he’ll get invited being an Eng’g major. Or is it for Arts and Science majors only???</p>
<p>I’m working on applying right now (well, done with AMCAS and secondaries, almost done with interviews) and ran into the same problem with English–beyond freshman comp (which I took through a CC), all of my university English requirements were fulfilled with non-English department writing intensives.</p>
<p>Out of the 13 schools I applied to, about half had an English requirement. I called every single one of them, and their response was exactly the same: send us an update letter explaining your school’s policy, and also the course listing for the class that shows it’s writing intensive. The people I talked to on the phone acted like this happened all the time–one was quite comical, since I was freaking out and she said something like, “Honey. Relax. I get multiple phone calls just like this every single day. You’ll be just fine.” Sent the emails in September, haven’t looked back.</p>
<p>Not sure what to do about your gen chem requirements–that would be a great question for your premed advising office. If you’re not already pals with them, this would be a great time to set up an appointment, introduce yourself, and ask your question.</p>
<p>From a personal academic perspective, if I want to take a class, I’m going to take it unless something major comes up. So would I take lots of lab sciences the same semester as the MCAT? No–but I’d take it eventually. Would I avoid a challenging class to preserve my GPA? Nope, because to me, the point of college is to take challenging classes…so why not do it? So if I were you, I’d sign up for p-chem!</p>
<p>And mom2, generally speaking you’d replace each of them–so if he got AP credit for 2 semesters of bio, he should replace that with 2 semesters of upper level bio.</p>
<p>*Out of the 13 schools I applied to, about half had an English requirement. I called every single one of them, and their response was exactly the same: send us an update letter explaining your school’s policy, and also the course listing for the class that shows it’s writing intensive. The people I talked to on the phone acted like this happened all the time–one was quite comical, since I was freaking out and she said something like, “Honey. Relax. I get multiple phone calls just like this every single day. You’ll be just fine.” Sent the emails in September, haven’t looked back.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>Oh yeah!!! Will tell DS2 about this. He’ll be happy. But, I do think he should take some kind of English class over the summer at a CC, just in case. Besides, some of these schools require an awful lot of humanities - which an Eng’g student can be sorely lacking without using AP credits. :(</p>
<p>According to my senior friend (pre-med), non-English writing classes do not count as English, unfortunately. I guess I’ll designate the music class as humanities, then …</p>
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<p>Winter break is still not over and I have to decide if I’m going to pre-register for an English class this semester before I return :(</p>
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<p>I mean, it’s pretty easy to get a B if that’s what you mean by not hurting my GPA much. Certainly not easy to get an A though (as I learned in orgo).</p>
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<p>I’ll look into that, thanks!</p>
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<p>Yeah, I’m mostly thinking about chem, mb&b, and math right now. I’m currently in McBride’s freshman orgo and yes, I’ve heard the same. At the time I was not really thinking about pre-med. I did not do particularly well in his class the first semester, although I firmly believe that is a product of my poor time management, which will be the first thing I change next semester.</p>
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<p>I took multivariable and linear algebra in my junior year of high school, and I think I’ll be able to handle upper-level math classes (here’s hoping it runs in the family: my parents are both math PhDs :)). I did not take MATH 230 this semester, opting instead for MATH 120 (I thought retaking multi might be good for me, and it definitely was). I’ve also left intensive intro physics for next year … hopefully that’s not a problem. I thought it would be too intense to take that and freshman orgo at the same time.</p>
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<p>I believe orgo is not a prereq either, so physical chem would be the second.</p>
<p>So, I visited the Yale pre-med site: </p>
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<p>Kind of settles that one: they specifically mention literature, meaning I’ll have to take English department classes. Eh, that’s okay :)</p>
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<p>Sounds great, right? A lot of schools seem to take this biochemistry plus lab as a replacement for gen chem if one has skipped to orgo. Unfortunately, UCLA, which I’ll almost certainly apply to if I end up pre-med because it’s in-state and amazing, does not take any AP credit. I think this means my acceleration credit is void since it comes from AP testing. So … stuck again haha.</p>
<p>My daughter just looked up the English course listings at her school, and none of them say writing intensive, they are all writing attentive. This includes all 500 level courses. Sorry I’m not exactly getting it Kristen, what would her school state in the letter? Also, D is a classics major, so potentially some of her other non English department classes will fulfill the English requirements?</p>
<p>GA2012MOM: Attentive might just be her school’s term for what my school calls intensive. Does she have easy access to a transcript? For my school, we can log on to the student website (where you go to register for classes, check your finances, do official stuff like that) and have them instantly send us an “academic record” which is an unofficial transcript. See if she can get her hands on one of those–might have some answers, because classes that are “writing intensive” (thus satisfying my university’s writing requirement) are designated on our transcripts with a “WI” next to the name. Perhaps her school is the same–it’s the case for at least me and the few friends from other schools that I talk about academics with.</p>
<p>Here’s how my letter went: </p>
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<p>Which brings up something I forgot: Since my school uses writing intensive classes to satisfy English requirements and indicates WI on transcripts, my advisors instructed me (and I forgot!) to write, for example “BIOSC 4994: Senior Seminar–Global Perspectives on Influenza–Writing Intensive” on my AMCAS–which likely would have rendered my update email redundant. Since you have to write exactly what’s on your transcript on your AMCAS, I’m reasonably sure this was only allowed because my transcript said WI.</p>
<p>Thanks for the response Kristen. Her transcript does not list any designation such as your WI. It simply shows English 235 (or whatever it is) course title and grade. Her school has no core, but I just looked and she does have 2 classes within the English dept. plus oodles of Humanities courses that might potentially be counted. (?) I just found it odd that not ONE single English class was catagorized intensive. She has put this question on her to do list for when she goes back to school. Thanks again.</p>
<p>No problem! Asking the advisor is always a great idea, and having a question is a good “in” for a quick appointment with a premed advisor. </p>
<p>But all English classes count, regardless of their writing attentive status or not. I bet the attentive ones will count too–doesn’t seem like med schools are that strict about them because they just want to see that you can write well and communicate in English.</p>
<p>Another question she could add to her list: if her school has a medical school (especially if she goes to her state’s state school), she might ask her advisor what she needs to do to get an interview there. I know, for example, it’s much “easier” for my school’s undergrads to get an interview at my school’s med school (to the tune of every single kid that applied with at least 28/3.6 is interviewed) than it is for other in state students, and it’s much more challenging for out of state students to get an interview. If her advisor will divulge their cutoffs, it might help her rest easy (if she’s already attained them) or give her extra motivation to work harder (if she hasn’t). Just my $0.02</p>
<p>OP, AP credits as well as the acceleration credits are essentially useless for a typical premed.</p>
<p>Acceleration credits = credits that are useful only when you decide to graduate early. (Who does not have tons of these credits any way unless the student is admitted not because of his/her academic strength!) Another use of the acceleration credits is to fulfill your major’s pre-requirements earlier so that you can take more advanced electives offered by your department – like you likely do right now (assuming you will be a science major here.) What you quoted here is very good for fulfilling the major requirements, not always good for fulfilling the premed requirements for SOME medical schools.</p>
<p>Talking about APs. you must know by now that your AP credits on any foreign languages are not as useful as they would be at most other colleges (e.g., state university), in the sense that you still need to take some foreign language classes no matter how many AP credits or dual-enrolled college credits you have had in high school. If you decide to take a new language, the class is often held 5 days a week early in the morning – not an ideal time slot for a science major because many core science classes are held early in the morning as well.</p>
<p>I even vaguely remember that one particular state medical school in ca requires you to take an introductory science class. But I am not 100 percents sure about this. Also, USC medical school requires a lot classes outside of sciences.</p>
<p>I agree with OP that it is not easy to get straight A’s in many classes (English, popular social science ones, premed sciences, or even a foreign language one – a lot of students already speak fluently in that language before taking the class and many A’s are taken by these very-well-prepared students.), especially consistently. It is often the case that each class has a grand total of one student who graduates with a 4.0.</p>
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<li><p>Some med schools require “writing classes.” Some med schools require “English classes.” They are not the same. Many med schools do not accept writing-intensive courses to fulfill their English requirements. English courses, on the other hand, always fulfill any writing requirements. So, your best bet is to take two English courses.</p></li>
<li><p>1 year of P-chem or analytical chem with lab is fine.</p></li>
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<p>Hm … if I remember correctly, if you skip to more advanced classes, schools like UCSF can waive part of the gen chem requirement, but you have to have evidence that you got credit for the classes you skipped. Wouldn’t this require that I have acceleration credit to show them? Or is simply being in orgo enough?</p>
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<p>I’m fulfilling my foreign language with L4 chinese next semester; I tested into L5 first semester, but I felt the level was a bit high for me to be comfortable in class. I also took 4 years of Spanish in middle/high school, although I’m not sure if there’s any way for that to show up on a med school application. What are your thoughts here? If I remember UCLA even recommended Spanish as a part of their requirements …</p>
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<p>Thanks! I was leaning toward being safe and just taking English. It’s nice to have humanities courses in a schedule full of science and math :)</p>
I think if it is AP credits, there may be some places in the medical school application form you may fill them. I doubt it would make any difference though, as most college-bound students take many foreign language classes and taking 4 years in high school really does not make you stand out. If your ethnic group is changed from Chinese to Mexican, it then makes a difference for sure :)</p>
<p>ucsf is tough to crack for everyone. It is rumored it does more “social engineering” stuff as compared to many other research medical schools. (As a state school funded by tax money, you can not blame it.) It would be challenging for you as an ORM, unless your ECs are several standard deviations above a typical ORM premed. The battleground among premeds for getting into this kind of school is likely not on stats at all, let alone small potatoes like whether it is real college-level gen. chem or AP. DS keeps “a safe distance” from any of these kinds of schools, heck, any ca schools, even though he is likely around top 5 percents stats-wise at his school. He thinks he will not be welcomed there, LOL. One kid with 3.94+/40 did get into a single california school (ucla, not bad at all) last year though, but for some reason it was the only school he got into, after he had interviewed at likely >10 top 20 schools.</p>
<p>Yeah, I thought so. But the fact that you brought up foreign languages made me wonder if I should be continuing Spanish or if completing L4 Chinese is sufficient.</p>
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<p>That’s true. In any case, it is not of immediate concern I suppose, although I do think I will take an English course this semester :)</p>
<p>Some English class requires tons of reading. For example, ENGL 114 may be more writing intensive (not necessarily more intensive than APs), but ENGL 116 may require more reading.</p>
<p>DS got into 114 just because he did not get a spot in 120. (It could happen if you do not register early.) The competitors were weaker. He said some science nerds seem to struggle for gett ing an A in such a class though. One science nerd dare not take ANY humanity or English class after he had taken a couple of classes. Since he is not allowed to take any of these distribution requirement courses at any other college, he ends up taking several of these in summer in order to avoid too much GPA hits. (This is a true story.) A premed gaming at work here! (Some science nerd who happens to have zero interests in other fields really should not come to this kind of school. Some CCer, Mini, once posted that the hallmark of almost every ivy is really these writing/reading intensive classes, and you really need to enjoy these to some extent if you are here – OP, to clarify, I d not imply you are such a student, considering your achievement elsewhere – likely a string instrument?)</p>
<p>For what it’s worth: I applied to a nice mix of schools–Boston, Creighton, Drexel, Duke, Georgetown, Harvard, Loyola, Mayo, Missouri, Northwestern, SLU, Tufts, UVA.</p>
<p>Boston, Creighton, Georgetown, Loyola, Missouri, and SLU had English requirements that were fulfilled with writing intensive classes from my university (big state school).</p>
<p>Duke, Harvard, Mayo, Northwestern, and UVA did not have English requirements.</p>
<p>Tufts and Drexel only required a semester, which I fulfilled using community college credits from a class I took online.</p>
<p>If English is no big deal, and you don’t mind taking English classes, by all means–take English classes. At my school, English classes are strangely challenging (terrible grade distribution!) and don’t count toward the writing requirements for most majors (because few English classes are writing intensive)–which is why I opted for other writing intensives (small classes, great profs, etc etc). My choice to do that did not limit me at all!</p>