This must have been private school loans? I thought that federal school loans were discharged on death.
My daughter’s fiancé has school debt but all of it incurred before they met. All of it in his name only. I’m confused about how that would be community property. If he died, wouldn’t that debt be discharged such as credit card debt and hospital charges?
My daughter dated someone who was involved and worked in a family business. I’m sure there would have been a prenup if they had married.
It’s about assets. It’s about debt. It’s about risk management. It’s about both partners benefiting appropriately from future financial events. It’s about both partners taking responsibility for their as yet unborn children.
Assets accumulated during marriage can be divided evenly. What if the wife bought the house (came up with the down payment from her savings pre-marriage) and the husband contributed the blender from his bachelor days? She says she doesn’t need a prenup because true love is forever, besides, “he’s still in law school, no way could he have any savings, he’s in debt up to his eyeballs”.
Women get shafted during divorce. Women get shafted pre-marriage because they believe that prenups are for billionaires, not ordinary people. Women get shafted post-divorce when their standard of living plunges; kids get shafted if the wealthier parent (usually the dad) refuses to pay for college because “if it’s not in the agreement, it won’t happen”).
How many sad cases do we read on CC every month from children of divorce-- the non-custodial parent has tons of spare cash, the custodial parent has to count every penny- who can’t figure out how to pay for college?
H and I were lucky- we had no money when we got married, and we’ve made it work for decades. But if I were getting married now, I’d have looked at our college loans with different eyes (his were 4X mine).
No, these were hospital bills when the person ended up in ICU after the accident and later died. Not covered by medical insurance because it was the result of an accident. Not covered by any insurance - at all - due to the place and nature of the accident.
Haha, I read your post wrong. Went back and reread the article.
I think medical debt is state dependent. Sounds like in Arizona that the debt of one is the debt of the spouse.
But I don’t think that’s every state? I could be wrong though. That’s how I interpreted the article.
Glad that woman knew the laws in her state before she was saddled with a huge bill.
Honestly, though, I’ve never quite understood what is meant by the idea of “putting someone through school.” I’m pretty sure all those 32 hour shifts and 110 hr weeks were done by me, not by my then-fiance. I mean he did continue to work the same 40 hr/week job he would have been working anyway had we not been together, but does that mean he “put me through medical school?”
Yes, there are state specifics. This is where an attorney’s advice comes in handy.
Interesting reading. While my kids are too young to marry, we already have trusts and when the time comes we’ll update them to ensure that our kids keep their family assets in case of divorce. I would also put language in the trust so they know if assets are co-mingled that they can be lost in a divorce. I’d put in language so if my kids pass on the money, it would go to grandkids.
We’ve worked really hard (who hasn’t) to make sure our kids will graduate debt free. We’ve also owned and sold multiple businesses and have a family home that’s valuable. So, I wouldn’t want my kids to lose any family generational assets. What my kids would do with their own assets is their business. But I’d advise from a financial perspective, if asked.
I’m a firm believer in love and all of that we didn’t have a pre-nup and both came in equal ( high income, no debts, similar job options). We did decide before marriage who would work once kids came along. A few things changed over the decades, but we’ve always been on the same financial page. And I think that’s important. One of us has worked more than the other but one of us has spent more time raising the kids. Our money belongs to both of us.
Prenup is like insurance, better to have it and not use it then not have it.
This is my opinion only.
When a couple gets divorced, the assets they have at that moment are divided. Evenly.
But the bigger issue is income inequality. The woman may be the lower earner and she’s been the one in many cases who dialed back her career. She’s the one who has less earnings power and she’s the one who’s done the major share of child rearing.
But the man is able to recover from the divorce faster. He has given up 1/2 of the communal assets just like the wife but he’s able to make up what he has lost easier because he makes more money.
Its also up to each party to decide how to contribute to their children after the divorce and support ends. If the dad decides not to contribute to college or the wedding but the mom does, that’s their choice. Not great choices but choices on what to do with their resources.
I have a friend who put her MBA on hold to take a job for which she was grossly overqualified, to help pay the bills. She did NOT work the same 40/hour week job she would have been working anyway- she’d have been out of B-school in two years, have likely tripled her salary, and been able to write her own ticket instead of explaining to employers why she stayed in a dead end job with modest advancement opportunities. (“my husband was in med school, and then residency, and then a fellowship and we moved for each of those transitions”; not a great narrative for someone selling her own ambition and interests.)
THAT’s what’s meant by the idea. Putting your own education on ice because the would-be Doctor or Lawyer is going to then support YOU when it’s your turn. Except by then there are kids and MORE responsibilities at home, not less. So by the time you get to contemplate grad school you are 52 years old without the earning runway in front of you that there was when you were 25.
Yes, choosing to be a trailing spouse does not signal ambition. Especially because being a medical student/resident/fellow does require a support person, as proven by the many doctors who do it all while single.
Hopefully our children are learning from the mistakes of the parents generation.
In my daughter’s instance, she has a graduate degree, he has a graduate degree. Neither helped the other as far as I’m concerned, it’s a equal partnership.
They have lots of friends who are juggling the same. It’s difficult but it feel very equal because both are working and both share much more equally in household and childcare roles.
My son and his wife both make approximately the same amount and again the share the responsibility of childcare and the house.
So if either of my children were to divorce, I think that all the parties would be able to afford their lives on their own.
I’m not sure that my kids want to have the traditional husband works, wife stays home. They all have careers now, maybe it will change but my dil is back to her job, where she makes more than her husband, my son.
Ok fifty/fifty, I get your point. Nobody should marry a med student, because whatever sacrifices you CHOOSE to make during your marriage will pale in comparison to those that your spouse is making, or those of the med students who aren’t married. Gotcha.
Now we can go back to discussing how to make divorce more equitable- when it happens, if it happens-- and what rational people can do to protect themselves financially even during the heady “we’re so in love, why ruin it with money” phase of engagement.
But fyi, there are numerous surveys on “what holds women back in corporate America” and a “surprising” finding has been that men often have a spouse who provides unpaid entertaining, the emotional labor of holding down a job (buying gifts for the administrative assistants, sending the “personalized” cake for the baby shower), someone to find a house on short timing during a relocation, someone to switch registration for the cars at the DMV, someone to arrange the thousands of details for an overseas rotation, etc.
It was not surprising to me or my female B-school classmates as we watched our dumber male colleagues progress (often with a full time stay at home wife to plan the Xmas party, goodbye parties, etc.) while we handled the second shift at home AND the primary shift at work AND the unpaid labor which starts to accrue as you enter senior management…
I know someone who paid for the spouse to go to med school, and then they divorced. She still has medical degree/high income, and he doesn’t have that money. That’s the type of situation I think of when you say “put someone through school.”
Yes, that definitely sounds unfair, and if I were the paying spouse I would want my money back with interest! That said, does he really deserve more than that? If she hadn’t been with him, she would have just taken that money as a loan, and paid it back with interest.
I can see why so many here worry about divorce. All the tit for tat, or I do more cause I’m female or counting every penny separately because one makes more than the other.
I’m equal partners with my spouse. We co mingle everything and nobody is counting pennies. We have a strong marriage and successful children and no pre nup.
My parents did this and it was smart.
Me too but that was long ago for us. We started with nothing and just worked as a team to build our lives.
But what might be more important at our age is if something happened to either of us now and the surviving spouse was to remarry…that’s time for a pre-nup.
I get that totally. But another friend who divorced sold the big house immediately and downsized into a townhouse in the same school district which made a lot of sense.
Same for my D and SIL. I am encouraging her to continue pursuing her career (which she enjoys) because you never know…
This worked for me. And I am grateful that it has. But I know too many people who become financially devastated after a divorce (and not because of counting every penny) to think that my personal experience is a template for everyone. Life has too many variables to think that just because our own experience worked out, everyone else should do what we did.
Oh, I understand the value of an old fashioned type wife, the sort that can allow a man to be an “ideal worker” in Joan Williams’ parlance. But my perspective is perhaps colored by my friend group. You seem to know a lot of women who abandoned their careers to support men in their ambitions, but I know few women like this. My own friend group is made up of female doctors, lawyers, executives etc. Now in middle age there have been divorces in situations where the guy always worked a laid back job or was a stay-at-home (but never the type who sent out thank you cards to Aunt Thelma or hand baked peanut-free party treats for a kindergarten class of 24.) Anyway, when the guys end up leaving for sweet young things, they get half because “he put her through medical school.” Sure he did. And yes, this is what pre-nups are for!