PREDICT the TOP 20 schools in US NEWS Rankings!!

College Search & Selection
21

<p>Why is Duke always so high? Here's why:</p>

<p>O B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>

<p>UNDERGRADUATE ENROLLMENT<br>
Duke 6330</p>

<p>% AND # OF STUDENTS WHO ARE IN-STATE<br>
Duke 15% (950)</p>

<p>% OF FEMALE STUDENTS<br>
Duke 49%</p>

<p>% OF WHITE/NON-HISPANIC STUDENTS<br>
Duke 52%</p>

<p>% FROM PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS<br>
Duke 65%</p>

<p>% OF STUDENTS IN GREEK LIFE (Male & Female)<br>
Duke 29%/42%</p>

<p>TOP MAJORS AT EACH SCHOOL (acc to collegeboard.com)<br>
Duke 34% Social Sciences, 15% Engineering, 10% Security & Protective Services, 9% Psychology, 7% Biology, 5% English</p>

<p>COST (Tuition & Fees)<br>
Duke $35,756
Duke $35,756 </p>

<p>TOTAL COLLEGE ENDOWMENT AND PER CAPITA (undergrad and grad)<br>
Duke $5.91 bn ($506,017)</p>

<p>AVERAGE HIGH/LOW IN FEBRUARY<br>
Duke 54-30</p>

<p>GRADUATION RATES<br>
-% OF STUDENTS EXPECTED TO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:<br>
Duke 94%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO DO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:<br>
Duke 94%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE IN 4 YEARS:<br>
Duke 87%
FRESHMAN RETENTION RATE<br>
Duke 97%
USNWR GRADUATION & RETENTION RANK:<br>
Duke 9th</p>

<p>FACULTY RESOURCES<br>
-% OF CLASSES WITH <20 STUDENTS<br>
Duke 73%
-% OF CLASSES WITH 50+ STUDENTS<br>
Duke 6%
-FACULTY/STUDENT RATIO<br>
Duke 8/1
USNWR FACULTY RESOURCES RANK<br>
Duke 3rd</p>

<p>STUDENT SELECTIVITY<br>
-% ACCEPTANCE RATE<br>
Duke 23%
-SAT/ACT RANGE (Middle 50%)<br>
Duke 1350-1540
-% OF STUDENTS RANKING IN TOP 10% IN HS CLASS<br>
Duke 89%
% OF STUDENTS WITH HS GPA > 3.75 (Unweighted)<br>
Duke na</p>

<h1>OF NMS FINALISTS IN 2007 (% of student body)</h1>

<pre><code>Duke 90 (5.7%)
</code></pre>

<p>% OF STUDENTS SCORING 700+ ON SAT CRITICAL READING<br>
Duke 63%
% OF STUDENTS SCORING 700+ ON SAT MATH<br>
Duke 68%
% OF STUDENTS SCORING 30+ ON ACT<br>
Duke 61%
USNWR SELECTIVITY RANK<br>
Duke 12th</p>

<p>USNWR FINANCIAL RESOURCES RANK<br>
Duke 14th</p>

<p>ALUMNI GIVING %<br>
Duke 52%
USNWR ALUMNI GIVING RANK<br>
Duke 2nd%</p>

<p>S U B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>

<p>USNWR PEER ASSESSMENT SCORE<br>
Duke 4.4</p>

<p>And I think that they might even see an improvement in their USNWR ranking this year as the PA score has been reduced in the past year, probably as a result of the false accusations related to the lacrosse team.</p>

22

<p>hawkette, of the "Objective Data" you cite, what do the vast majority of the data points you cite have to do with how highly Duke is ranked?</p>

<p>
[quote]

O B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>

<p>UNDERGRADUATE ENROLLMENT
Duke 6330</p>

<p>% AND # OF STUDENTS WHO ARE IN-STATE
Duke 15% (950)</p>

<p>% OF FEMALE STUDENTS
Duke 49%</p>

<p>% OF WHITE/NON-HISPANIC STUDENTS
Duke 52%</p>

<p>% FROM PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS
Duke 65%</p>

<p>% OF STUDENTS IN GREEK LIFE (Male & Female)
Duke 29%/42%</p>

<p>TOP MAJORS AT EACH SCHOOL (acc to collegeboard.com)
Duke 34% Social Sciences, 15% Engineering, 10% Security & Protective Services, 9% Psychology, 7% Biology, 5% English</p>

<p>COST (Tuition & Fees)
Duke $35,756
Duke $35,756 </p>

<p>AVERAGE HIGH/LOW IN FEBRUARY
Duke 54-30</p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's all objective data that proves ... what? That Duke has females? Greeks? Is expensive to attend?</p>

23

<p>Hawkette, you cite "Faculty Resources Rank", "Selectivity Rank", and "Financial Resources Rank" as "objective" measures...realize that those factors are composed of very subjective weightings...</p>

24

<p>^ LOL! So true. In addition to subjective weightings for subjectively choosen "objective" measures, the measures themselves are prone to manipulation and is in many cases correlated to the wealth or spending power of a university, thus favoring elite small private universities with big endowments.</p>

25

<p>nobody's showing notre dame any love huh?</p>

26

<p>
[quote]
Hawkette, you cite "Faculty Resources Rank", "Selectivity Rank", and "Financial Resources Rank" as "objective" measures...realize that those factors are composed of very subjective weightings...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
^ LOL! So true. In addition to subjective weightings for subjectively choosen "objective" measures, the measures themselves are prone to manipulation and is in many cases correlated to the wealth or spending power of a university, thus favoring elite small private universities with big endowments.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hawkette, </p>

<p>Realize that you are being subjective in your choice of criterion and data no matter how objective your data may seem. It is impossible to be objective in choice of criterion.</p>

27

<p>In the end, its all related to wealth. A university with greater wealth has more opportunity to invest in things that matter such as:</p>

<p>"faculty resources rank" <--- increases salary pay, give more research funding, more grants etc.</p>

<p>"selectivity rank" <--- purchase more scores from Collegeboard, send more likely letters, send more spam to applicants, set up more locations in college fairs</p>

<p>"financial resources rank" <--- self explanatory</p>

<p>"student/faculty ratio", "% of classes of 50 or more" <---larger staff, more operations support, bigger administrative pool, more ppl on pay roll, make smaller classes.</p>

<p>I think there was a website linking endowment wealth with rankings. It all comes down to how rich an institution is. lol</p>

28

<p>notre dame is richer than many of the universities you guys have up there.</p>

<p>my predicted top 20 USNWR
1.Stanford
1.Harvard
3.MIT
3.Princeton
5.Yale
6..Duke
7..CalTech
8.UPenn
8.Columbia
10.Dartmouth
11.Cornell
11.Brown
13.Notre Dame
14.UChicago
15.JHU
16.Northwestern
17.wustl
17.rice
19.berkeley
19.cmu</p>

29

<p>harvard
yale
princeton
stanford
Penn-Wharton
Georgetown-SFS
Columbia
mit
duke
U of Penn
Caltech
Dartmouth
Chicago
Cornell
Brown
JHU
Northwestern
WUSTL
Rice
Georgetown U.
California
Notre Dame
Emory</p>

30

<p>Re my earlier Duke post, the point was not the various USNWR ranks, but rather the underlying data points and how they will compare with other highly regarded colleges. Take your pick-Duke scores pretty highly on nearly every objective measure. Weight them as you see fit.</p>

31

<p>
[quote]
my predicted top 20 USNWR
1.Stanford
1.Harvard
3.MIT
3.Princeton
5.Yale
6..Duke
7..CalTech
8.UPenn
8.Columbia
10.Dartmouth
11.Cornell
11.Brown
13.Notre Dame
14.UChicago
15.JHU
16.Northwestern
17.wustl
17.rice
19.berkeley
19.cmu

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Whoa, major demotion to U Chicago, ¿por qué?</p>

32

<p>if USNWR ever makes sense and is a true reflection of the cross-admits for this year, even they may throw you many things at the same time, my take is </p>

<ol>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Yale/Harvard
4 Stanford/MIT
6 ...</li>
</ol>

<p>Sorry for not caring too much about the other schools.</p>

33

<p>
[quote]
Whoa, major demotion to U Chicago, ¿por qué?

[/quote]

lack of selectivity in admissions, lack of diversity in undergraduate education, grad school focus, etc.</p>

<p>generally overrated imo</p>

34

<p>from another thread:</p>

<p>Some Observations & Predictions for the 2009 USNWR Top 25 National Unis </p>

<hr>

<p>I did a quick spot check of about a dozen colleges in the USNWR Top 25 National Universities that provide Common Data Sets. The factors I looked at only account for about 35% of the ranking weight and any conclusions have the potential to be swamped by a college’s change in its PA score. So, take the following with caution and with a grain of salt. Here are some changes that I found from last year to this year:</p>

<ol>
<li>Vanderbilt is going to move up in the rankings as it improved Freshman Retention, 6-year Grad Rate, % of Top 10% students, and Acceptance Rate. While I’m not sure how to score it, Vanderbilt also saw a 15 point improvement in its average SAT score and a very impressive 1-point gain in its average ACT score. </li>
<li>Cornell is also going to move up. I base this on an improvement in class size over 50 students and a very good improvement in Top 10% students (3%) and Acceptance Rate (4%). Cornell slipped, however, its student/faculty ratio.</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon should move up. CMU improved it Freshmen Retention, 6-Yr Grad Rate and a whopping 6% change in Acceptance Rate.</li>
<li>Yale could move up. The school improved its Freshmen Retention and Top 10% scorers.</li>
<li>Northwestern could also move up as the school increased its average SAT by 25 points (highest that I’ve seen this year) as well as positive improvements in Top 10% scorers, classes under 20 students and Acceptance Rate. These may be partially offset by declines in Freshmen Retention and classes over 50. </li>
<li>Emory looks like a loser. While many numbers showed a positive change (6-Yr Grad Rate, classes with under 20 students, classes with over 50 students), they experienced an enormous decline in Top 10% students (-13%). This may be an accounting issue and whether they count their Oxford students. It will be interesting to see how/if they finesse this in the actual USNWR report.</li>
<li>Among the publics, I think that U Virginia may be in for a fall. While slightly improving 6-Yr Grad rates and Acceptance Rates, the school fell slightly in Top 10% students and classes over 50 students. Perhaps most significantly for their rank, however, is that the school experienced a 15-point drop in the average SAT and this in a year when most schools were increasing their average SAT score.</li>
<li>Other major publics like UCB and U Michigan had some positives and negatives. UCB saw a slight decline in 6-Yr Grad Rate, but this was likely offset by slight gains in classes under students and Acceptance Rate. UCB will almost certainly benefit from a 20-point improvement in average SAT. U Michigan is one of the few highly ranked colleges that experienced an expansion of its Acceptance Rate (from 47% to 50%), but this will almost surely be offset by gains in Top 10% scorers and classes over 50.</li>
</ol>

<p>Important Note: Many of the most highly ranked colleges DO NOT provide a CDS so year-over-year comparisons are difficult and thus make it hard to predict overall ranking shifts up and down.</p>

35

<p>as if vanderbilt wasn't overrated enough in the rankings...cool info though.</p>

36

<p>Why do we care about the USNWR rankings? The rankings are misleading and serve as a business mechanism to ‘market’ colleges rather than illuminating true quality and educational value. The rankings also add stress to the college application process, drive people into a frenzy, and sell the USNWR magazine. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Critics have charged that U.S. News intentionally changes its methodology every year so that the rankings change and they can sell more magazines.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The National Opinion Research Center, one of the largest and most highly respected social research organizations in the US, found that the statistical weights used by U.S. News to rank colleges/universities “lack any defensible empirical or theoretical basis.” </p>

<p>Here’s a quote from carolyn from another CC post—more information on how far USNWR is willing to go to sell their magazine
[quote]
I was one of the guidance counselors ask to fill out the questionnaire. I, along with many other counselors I have talked with, decided not to participate. Here's why:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Only counselors from a very small sample of high schools were asked to participate.</p></li>
<li><p>We were only asked to rank selected institutions. No LACs, no master's level universities, few regional public institutions.</p></li>
<li><p>When questionned, US News' director of research indicated that they were going to "wait and see" what the guidance counselors said before deciding how to use the information. In other words, if the information conflicted with US News' existing rankings, the guidance counselor rankings would be ignored.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>In short, the "ranking" questionnaire was stacked so that only certain universities would be ranked by guidance counselors. </p>

<p>So, be cautious. Like the "peer reviews" US News probably will not be telling you how many counselors participated, how the counselors that were asked to participate were chosen, or that only selected colleges were included in the "rankings."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>See the Boston Globe article, Dismissing school rankings at: Dismissing</a> school rankings - The Boston Globe

[quote]
It's common knowledge how the statistics can be "gamed." Colleges can solicit applications from students with little chance of acceptance to boost how selective they appear. Schools can adjust when they allow faculty to take leave in order to raise the faculty/student ratio.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Kudos to the colleges that refused to fill out the USNWR survey! So why do we continue to support USNWR?</p>

37

<p>
[quote]
lack of selectivity in admissions, lack of diversity in undergraduate education, grad school focus, etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, these things didn't hold Chicago back the last two years when they were #9, so why should they now? And considering that Chicago has higher SAT scores than Columbia, maybe you should watch your mouth. Percentage accepted doesn't translate to selectivity -- it translates to popularity.</p>

<p>And diversity isn't even measured in US News. Even if it were, Caltech is MUCH worse, and you ranked them 7. Same with grad school focus. Also, don't forget that Chicago was ranked #1 for Academic Experience in Princeton Review before the rating was deleted. So obviously, Chicago isn't so focused on graduate education as to ignore undergraduate education.</p>

38

<p>What alternative do you have to USNWR? Its easy to criticize it, unless you have a better alternative, USNWR continue to be supported and read by millions of prospective highschoolers.</p>

<p>There are actually a lot of valid and meritable reasons why USNWR continues to generate continued support since its inception nearly twent years ago.</p>

<p>What solution do you have to this? Remove USNWR ranking all together? Something else is bound to pop up to fill this void.</p>

<p>Like the USNWR editor says, Higher education is a expensive commodity and the existence of this ranking is merely to respond to a demand for knowledge and information concerning these schools and how each stacks up to each other (is that not important to a person about to invest 200K?)</p>

<p>Its good to use USNWR as one tool among many to choose and select colleges. Its not like USNWR advertises itself as the absolute tool.</p>

39

<p>
[quote]
Percentage accepted doesn't translate to selectivity -- it translates to popularity.

[/quote]

go ahead and tell that to harvard students...see if they agree with you.

[quote]
And diversity isn't even measured in US News. Even if it were, Caltech is MUCH worse, and you ranked them 7

[/quote]

touche. i agree, caltech is even overrated at 7. i was too generous.

[quote]
lso, don't forget that Chicago was ranked #1 for Academic Experience in Princeton Review before the rating was deleted.

[/quote]

hmm, wonder why the rating was deleted...</p>

40

<p>
[quote]
How exactly do you propose we measure "true quality and educational value"?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A government-sponsored, standardized survey given to every. single. college student.</p>