<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
</ol>
<p>I just want #1 to change for interest's sake. lol</p>
<p>
[quote]
A government-sponsored, standardized survey given to every. single. college student.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>lmao. why would the government care about surveying students about their own schools or other schools they don't attend? USNWR ftw.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that US News always has several ties. Some of these lists tend to be wishful thinking LOL...Especially the Stanford rankings.</p>
<ol>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>U Pennsylvania</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>U Chicago</li>
<li>Dartmouth</li>
<li>Washington U in St. Louis</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>Rice U</li>
<li>Vanderbilt</li>
<li>Emory</li>
<li>U Notre Dame</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon U</li>
</ol>
<p>Guess #2 (to hedge my bets)</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>U Pennsylvania</li>
<li>Dartmouth</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Washington U in St. Louis</li>
<li>U Chicago</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>Rice U</li>
<li>Vanderbilt</li>
<li>U Notre Dame</li>
<li>Emory</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon U</li>
<li>UC Berkeley</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>U Virginia</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>U Michigan</li>
<li>USC</li>
<li>Tufts</li>
<li>UNC - Chapel Hill</li>
</ol>
<p>"A government-sponsored, standardized survey given to every. single. college student."</p>
<p>What would be the measurements that your hypothetical survey would assess the college on (from the student's standpoint)?</p>
<p>The folks at Eastern State U might enjoy their professors and their classes as much as (or maybe even more than) the folks at Harvard ... does that make Eastern State U a better school?</p>
<p>Great idea, kwu, to have a standardized survey given to every. single. college student. It could be government-sponsored or sponsored by an independent research firm with no ties to USNWR or other rankers. Students would only rank their own schools. </p>
<p>There are many aspects of quality that could be ranked; a few include:
Accessibility and availability of professors
Availability of mentoring
Quality and accessibility of advisors: who are the advisors (professors? graduate students? administrative secretaries?)
Availability of advisors
Opportunities to get to know professors well and to be mentored by them
Institutional commitment to education of undergraduates as a priority (are professors there to teach and mentor, and are they rewarded for teaching, or are they there to do their research?). An important point to remember here is that some institutions have excellent graduate schools and most of their reputation is based on that. But, whats important for those applying to college is whether or not the institution has excellent undergraduate education.
Do graduate students have first priority, or does a true commitment to undergraduates exist?
Size of classes
Are students taught mostly by TAs? How many classes in your intended major are taught by TAs?
Etc
Etc</p>
<p>I think kwu was being sarcastic.</p>
<p>Well, not entirely. It would be a good idea. How to implement it practically and how reliable it would be are another story.</p>
<p>Harvard would plunge to the bottom, that's for sure.</p>
<p>That's a horrible idea.</p>
<p>I think it’s a great idea. In fact, here are results from surveys of graduating college seniors. In one group/consortium of 31 private top colleges, Harvard ranks on the bottom just as kwu predicts. </p>
<p>COFHE, The Consortium on Financing Higher Education, has 31 member colleges and universities and was founded in 1971 " to examine how selective, private colleges and universities could discuss their commitment to providing exceptional educational opportunities for highly talented students as well as best practices in fiscal management." The results of the COFHE survey are described in the article below:</p>
<p>This one is from The Boston Globe:</p>
<p>"Student life at Harvard lags peer schools, poll finds"</p>
<p>By Marcella Bombardieri, Boston Globe Staff</p>
<p>“Student satisfaction at Harvard College ranks near the bottom of a group of 31 elite private colleges, according to an analysis of survey results that finds that Harvard students are disenchanted with the faculty and social life on campus. . . . . The 21-page memo, from staff researchers at Harvard to academic deans, documents student dissatisfaction with faculty availability, quality of instruction, quality of advising, and student life factors such as sense of community and social life on campus.” </p>
<p>The article also notes that
[quote]
. . . students can go through four years on campus with limited contact with professors. They often take large lecture classes, divided into sections headed by graduate student ''teaching fellows." Small classes are frequently taught by temporary instructors instead of regular, tenure-track professors. And in many cases, advisers are not professors, either, but graduate students, administrators, or full-time advisers.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Here’s the list of COCHE’s 31 member institutions—an impressive group of schools: COFHE</a> : Consortium On Financing Higher Education</p>
<ol>
<li> Starfleet Academy</li>
</ol>
<p>2-20. Everybody else.</p>
<p>Lol, that's like saying because a Ferrari and a Camry both can take you from point A to B, that they're equal.</p>
<p>Maybe what looks like a Ferrari on the outside is really, on the inside, something much less fancy and perhaps poorer in quality than other cars. And perhaps this knowledge about the Ferrari is known mostly to those who drive it and take care of it daily, but not so much known to those who admire what they see on the outside from afar.</p>
<p>Ok. You spew your socialist philosophies and I'll go to Harvard. </p>
<p>I'm sure I'll be scarred for life.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>hmmm, guess who does the hiring, the one at Harvard/MIT or the one who "looks" at a resume of a person from MIT.....</p>
<p>lol, I remember I went to a hospital one time, and I peeked into this surgeons office, and he had his diploma from Johns Hopkins effing blown up the size of his wall, lol...made all his patients feel good about their surgeon ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
he had his diploma from Johns Hopkins effing blown up the size of his wall, lol...made all his patients feel good about their surgeon
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For people who really know something about medicine, I'd be more interested in where the surgeon did his residency and/or fellowship.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>with all due respect, I was like 15 years old, and all I knew was that Johns Hopkins is a kick butt med school, so I judged him based on that...much like a large percentage of the population that don't know jack about medicine.</p>
<p>However, I do respect what you said, and I agree with you 100%, but not all Americans are knowledgeable these days...and when they see stuff like JHU they get excited ;)</p>
<p>^ vader - I certainly wasn't judging you in any way.</p>
<p>Just pointing put the common misconception of an emphasis of where your doctor went to med school - as opposed to residency/fellowship which is much more impt.</p>
<p>^ lol, I thought the original CC standard was that it is your final graduate school degree that matters... I mean, I understand where you are coming from though. lol Johns Hopkins medical school ranks the highest among residency directors btw, I believe a 4.9 over Harvard's 4.8 (I'm not sure what the difference is, don't know) but atleast you should be sure that Hopkins produces really good doctors. :)</p>
<p>Phead128 and k&s, yes it is generally the last graduate degree that really matters (not so much the undergraduate institution as long as its reasonably good). However, in medicine what really matters is the residency/fellowship. Thats where the clinical training occurs, and where connections and relationships are formed that can be influential when a physician is seeking a position. Doctors like to hire people they know are well trained and who relate well to patients. And, of course, patients seek this as well.</p>
<p>Bourne, in my Ferrari analogy, I was referring to undergraduate education at some prestigious schools, which is not always the best quality. However, the same prestigious schools may offer a quality graduate education, as that may be where their educational priority lies. Both a Ferrari and a Camry can get you from point A to B. However, when one looks closely, the Camry might actually turn out to be the better car. The point is for students to look carefully at the quality of education/advising/mentoring etc at the colleges they are considering, and not just go for the name or prestige factor.</p>