“There’s nothing at Chicago that makes the school “pre-med friendly.” The pre-med advising is solid, yes there is a bit of a GPA boost (0.1, roughly), but, well… Med school requirements are hard enough as it is, before you drop the challenge of a Chicago core curriculum on top of everything. Of course, if you’re intent on a great liberal arts education, by all means, Chicago may be the best in the business at this. If your intent is to try and go to a top top medical school, I don’t really see what advantage Chicago offers over Dartmouth, Brown, etc.”
“the same time, my friends, especially the scant couple who got into top top medical schools, feel they gained admission “in spite of” rather than “facilitated by” the structure present at Chicago”
So how has premed changed at UChicago recently? Is it still very difficult with harsh grading? I personally would hate being stuck in the library 24/7 studying so is UChicago premed not for me?
As you can see the GPA at UChicago has inflated like almost all other colleges, but in 2006 if was approximately .2 below Brown (which seems to have a reputation for GPA inflation), so looking at the facts, there is little separation between Brown and UChicago after the GPA’s are normalized by the medical school admittance board.
If your not interested in studying than you might want to rethink going to med school. Also, it seems you may not want to apply to UChicago since your self assessment of not wanting to put in the studying time is detrimental to your chances of admittance anyway.
BTW, @MYOS1634 gives very good advice for internationals but goes outside his lane a little too much without doing the research.
Can you go into more details about this normalization that medical school admittance boards do. Do all Medical schools do this and what data do they use to normalize these GPAs?
^ “Normalization” is not homogen nor is it generalized, and with a common GPA cutoff at 3.6+ for unhooked applicants the difference between Brown and UChicago is HUGE for premeds - keep in mind that at neither university are A’s handed out like candy and it could be argued UChicago students are stronger, more studious than those at Brown so the 3.3 student there isn’t getting B’s due to slacking.
UChicago is an excellent university, but the combination of harder than usual science classes (Advanced Biology Fundamentals sequence, for students who took AP Bio and got a 4 or 5) and inability to take “easy A” classes due to the Core (which is a good thing in some ways but can damage a GPA) makes the premed track there much harder than at other Ivy+ universities.
There IS however a specific “non science major premed” track that decreases the culling at UChicago, but for a sciene major it’s brutal.
@dolemite actually there are some threads on this in CC where the colleges are divided out and you can see where the top schools average GPA’s for med school admits. You can also cobble the data together yourself (e.g. for like majors Brown’s med school acceptance rate GPA is 3.7 vs 3.63 nationally from Brown’s own website). For normalization, each med school most likely has their own data base similar to what top colleges have for normalizing high school GPA’s.
Amherst and Williams are excellent at getting students into med school, but don’t kid yourself - the students there also work very hard. And for that matter, UChicago does very well at getting students into med school. College Confidential anecdotal information is, as usual, grossly exaggerated.
All schools will be stressful for premeds because premed is stressful in itself (good stress management as well as time management would be a crucial skill to acquire as a doctor.) So, don’t kid yourself, if you don’t want to “overly stress”, don’t think of the premed track, and premed pre-reqs will be hard everywhere.
(UChicago’s Advanced Bio Fundamentals sequence is more brutal than most sequences but it doesn’t mean there’s any easy premed sequence anywhere. It’s all relative. Looking for a non stressful premed path is like asking for Engineering without math or Philosophy without Logic :p. Also, if you were to be a non science major on a premed track, there’s a specific sequence at UChicago that’s not as brutal as the Advanced sequence.)
Ability to balance your schedule helps a lot - Amherst’s open curriculum allows you to build your own schedule in the most optimal manner wrt your goals. Same thing at Brown or Hamilton. On the other hand, flexible gen eds aren’t a problem if you can easily fit your premed pre-reqs and they have lots of choices (including “easier” ones to balance your schedule). Universities that don’t practice grade deflation or don’t have a special “extra rigorous” premed sequence will also help. Universities that are collaborative rather than competitive and offer lots of support/resources will be good.
You’re on the UChicago board here so it’s normal to find few posters who’ll criticize the university or suggest other universities, you may be better off posting in the premed forum. http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/ http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-student-topics/
Anecdotal information: One of the first UChicago people my son met while on an overnight visit was a senior philosophy major who was slated to attend the University of Pennsylvania Medical School the next year. He was a great guy who treated my son very well which probably cemented my son’s decision to attend UChicago.
^I actually think Philosophy Major at UChicago would be ideal for a premed - it mitigates the infamous science sequence, Philosophy is a great major for med school, and it makes sense wrt UChicago’s strengths.
^^^ philosophy can be a very good major for a premed, but really, pick a major that you’ll love and get a high GPA/
My only anecdotal knowledge of UChi for premed is from a parent here on CC. His DD went there and the parent chronicled her story here as things unfolded. I believe she was a bio major, but not sure. She struggled a bit with GPA, so she waited to apply after senior year to get the gpa boost from that 4th year. She ended up applying with a 3.5 gpa and a strong MCAT. She applied early to about 30 schools, as recommended. She got ZERO interviews. Around early winter, she submitted some apps to DO schools, was quickly invited to interview and soon after had an acceptance or two. She enrolled.
She and her parents were very disappointed with how things worked out after being full pay at UChi which they thought would somehow pave the way to a MD school. They believe that if she had gone to a different school, but a very good school, her gpa would have been better…and likely would have paid less, with merit awards for her high school stats…and would likely have had a better app cycle for med school.
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Amherst and Williams are excellent at getting students into med school,
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Schools do not “get students into med school.” Even on Amherst’s website they admit that.
That said, i think for this student, a school like Amherst or Williams would be excellent for a premed.
The advice I offered 7 years ago in that old thread still applies today:
If you absolutely want to maximize your chances at med school admissions, and the liberal arts education is ancillary to that goal, there are absolutely better places to go than UChicago. That includes peer schools like the ones mentioned above.
@mom2collegekids said a Chicago grad she knew was disappointed with her med school chances and had regrets about Chicago. Students have to come to Chicago because they want this experience, and value it removed from their chance to maximize med admissions. (It appears that, in th anecdote, the grad was still able to practice medicine with a DO.)
Hi everyone
I did not know my DD’s experience at UofC is being used again in a premed thread like this. But I’d like to get the facts straight for the future premed hopefuls.
First of all my DD’s journey with premed intent was NOT atypical of an ordinary premed. Most of the premeds decided their intent in the early part of the college career, but D did not. She was determined to concentrate in neuroscience research when she applied for Chicago because its excellent reputation in the field. And rightly so, the school provided lots of research opportunities and D worked in the lab for almost two full years until she decided to switch to premed in her Jr. year. By that time her GPA suffers and became not med school worthy. D tried to remediate her GPA by taking higher level science classes in her last two years of college. Even with her concerned efforts she ended with 3.5 average. She did not get in any of the 30ish MD schools in her first and only cycle of med school application, she ended with several DO school offers. We decided to take the DO offer in stead of wait for another year to reapply.
We decided to take on her current DO school because
The “A bird in the hand” syndrome.
The school is close to home. We think even if she can get into a MD school in her second try it would most likely far away from home.
Her roommate, with an even lower GPA and MCAT, took a SMP and got in to a MD school in Florida. Right now, D is doing very well in her third year of OMS3 thanks to the basic science training at UofC. We hope she can get a competitive residency near home.
Secondly, due to poor planning we were expecting full pay anywhere D was applying, even at a state school. The difference maybe $20,000/ year for UofC and the state flagship. All the other private institutions such as Brown, JHU and others will cost just as much, more at NYU. In retrospect, we feel it is worth every penny for D with an UofC experience. D was extremely happy with the school and won’t exchange it with any other.
Lastly, for any future premeds who are considering Chicago, don’t be afraid of so called “grade deflation” as there is none. The professors at UofC hand out grades fair and square, and as any other top research Uinvrrsity, you have to earn it. There is no easy way out and there is no “grade inflation” at UofC. Premeds have to work hard anywhere to earn med school admission, you have to pass the weed out class as well. For those who are interested in grade deflation study at UofC, please read my analysis in a previous thread in this section of CC.
I always advice a premed should consider a school if your stats are at least in the top 25% of the entering class and if it is also a “fit”. This would apply to UofC as well.
Can confirm what @mom2collegekids writes above. My wife is a UofC alum. She found the curriculum very challenging. Many of her peers started off as pre-meds, then quickly dropped it after end of freshman year.
If med school is the ultimate goal, then best advice is to go to a college where your scores place you in the top 75th percentile. Despite what everyone else says, GPA is king when applying to med school. Even having a stellar MCAT won’t overcome a low GPA. By low I mean anything less than 3.8.
If you feel that getting a 3.8 at U of C is not a problem, then by all means go for it, the education will be excellent. Otherwise if your heart is set on medicine, there many other top schools where you will find that getting a 3.8 will be much easier.
If you want to hear more about the struggles of a U Chicago pre-med, look up Mindy Kaling’s brother. He was a premed at U of C, and had a similar story above. He was rejected to all the med schools he applied the first time around. Then then re-applied after falsifying his race, and was accepted.
I’m not allowed to link, but you can find more by googling his name Jojo Chokal-Ingam
@sgopal2 - to be fair, Mindy Kaling’s brother also admitted to d*cking around for most of his college career - not studying, partying with his frat, etc.
So, he’s not really a great example.
In terms of GPA maximization and acceptance maximization, UChicago may be a little harder than most other top schools, but the actual drop is probably quite small. It’s say, akin to a maximizer going elsewhere and getting into Harvard Med, and the same student going to Chicago, finding it a little harder, and going to Wash U or Columbia med. Or, it’s a maximizer going elsewhere and getting into a very lowly ranked med school, as opposed to going to UChicago and getting into a great DO program (and just missing the MD cut). If the student loves Chicago and buys into the program, this slight variation in med school admissions is negligible.
Remember, the health field is vast, and reputation matters less in medicine than in other fields, as long as you have the credential. The gap in outcomes between going to Harvard or UCLA for medicine isn’t nearly the same as the gap between Harvard and UCLA for, say, law or business.
Med schools are looking for top students in each school, not for some one that is “Average” in a school. School ranking and reputation matter much less. Not everyone can get into med school and its hard to be a premed everywhere. All those anecdotal stories do not represent how easy or hard for the graduates of UChicago to be admitted in a med school. The fact is, plenty of UChicago graduates went to med school, as many as any HYPMS graduates.
@artloversplus fair point. I honestly don’t know much about the deflation at UC apart from what wifey tells me. But she made it sound brutal.
I briefly was appointed as a rep on the admissions committee for a very well known private medical school, so I do know what I’m talking about. During committee rounds, there were students applying from hundreds of schools. It was impossible to keep track of which was prestigious and had deflation vs those who weren’t. The great equalizer was the MCAT score. I paid little attention to the prestigious schools vs the non-prestigious ones. The admissions deans didn’t either. Most were busy MDs with academic appointments who had little time for hair-splitting. So most of the committee discussions boiled down to the grades, plain and simple.
I can tell you based on my experience a 4.0/32+ MCAT from a top state school got my attention. Much more so than a 3.5 kid from Princeton or Stanford. Finishing med school is tough. We never wanted to admit someone who would struggle. Med school involves a lot of grunt work, and hence GPA matters a lot. There were plenty of brainiac kids who were good test takers (high MCAT), but couldn’t get enough As. This worried me if there were Bs in classes heavy on memorization like Orgo. I had no way of knowing if the prof was a goon, or if the kid didn’t know how to memorize. But in the end, it rarely mattered. Only those with high GPAs made the first cut. Exceptions were given for kids with exceptional circumstances (URM, switching careers, etc). But getting a high GPA is paramount, I can’t stress it enough.