Premed math requirements?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Regarding the math requirements for med school I have a few questions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Are Calc I and Calc II both required, can you take statics or something instead? (I should mention math is my weakest subject)</p></li>
<li><p>If I took Calc I at a community college this summer (summer before freshman year of college) and transferred the credits would it look OK on a transcript? The class will likely be easier at the community college so that is my reasoning behind taking it there- but will they look down upon that?</p></li>
<li><p>From what I have gathered your gpa is the most important factor, so taking less challenging classes and getting a higher gpa seems to be better than taking harder classes and getting a lower gpa, is this correct?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Any help is very much appreciated, thanks!</p>

2

<p>Are you a senior in high school? </p>

<p>Hopefully others will chime in here…I wonder if it would be better for you to audit the cal class this summer at a CC and then take it for real at your regular college. Or maybe there is a CC class that you could take this summer which would prep you well for taking Cal in the fall.</p>

3

<p>1) Not all medical schools have math requirements. I’m assuming you mean statistics (statics=physics or engineering or something, right?). In which case, yes statistics is fine. Schools that require calculus say “calculus” on the requirements.
2) Yes. Generally speaking you should avoid doing premed requirements at a community college. The most acceptable exceptions to this rule are math and English–so really, you should avoid taking core science classes at a CC.
3) If it’s a class you don’t like and don’t intend on continuing with (like math for you), then taking the “easy way out” should be fine. (EG: I hate physics. I took algebra based instead of calc based, finished physics 2, and never looked back. But I like chemistry. I took honors organic chemistry because I wanted to challenge myself. Both worked for me–I got into medical school 2 weeks ago). </p>

<p>I took AP Calc AB in high school (junior) and took AP Calc BC for college credit (given through St Louis University) as a senior. I have a transcript from SLU reflecting my Calc 2 credit. It has been sufficient to satisfy any math requirements for medical school. I have not taken any additional math classes–and oh my god it has been A-MAZING.</p>

4

<p>Kristin…</p>

<p>Would it not make a difference to your med schools that you took this class at another school because SLU is a very good school and/or it sounds like you took this class while still in high school?</p>

<p>Might it be viewed differently if you took the class at a CC after you graduated from high school? Or, would it be fine as long as you hadn’t started at your college.</p>

<p>And, how do med schools feel about “dual enrollment” credits that kids get while still in high school?</p>

<p>I don’t know, I’m just wondering.</p>

5

<p>Did you go to SLU to take AP Calc BC? I guess you must have taken it in the summer then, unless your high school happens to be very close to SLU. I always thought that AP classes are never offered in college. I guess I am wrong.</p>

<p>DS took one computer class as well as a Jazz class at a nearby small college one summer while he was in high school. He said the the quality of the instruction is actually better than that in his high school but the caliber of the students is likely worse (and the tuition is zero because either the school district or the state government helped pay for any dual enrollment credit, for some strange reason.)</p>

<p>He never took any “important classes” (English, Math, science, social science, and foreign language) at a college because the grades obtained outside of his high school would not be counted toward his class rank. It is as if a professor at any university were worse than any of his high school teachers because any grade given by a professor is considered as not trust-worthy by the high school. Even if you take a science class at MIT as a high schooler and get an A on it, the high school still disqualifies this A and the grade is counted as “pass” only because it would not include it in your class rank computation.</p>

<p>In another nearby school district, it is even worse: If you take any class for fun anywhere including your own high school (like an orchestra class or a dance class or journalism), it would hurt your weighted GPA severely (because it is weighted 20 percents less: Essentially your A for this fun class is equivalent to a B in a weighted class like AP English or AP US history) and none of “good” students who are aspired to go to a good college (including the flagship state university) dare to do that. Also, in that school, there are no gifted classes or accelerated track, because every child is gifted and having this kind of class will hurt the feeling of the students not in this class.</p>

<p>Welcome to the strange world of a public high school!</p>

6

<p>Mom2: No idea what it meant that it was SLU rather than a CC. They should realize that it was during high school, as I took the class spring 07 and graduated from high school spring 07 also. On the AMCAS, I listed it as a high school class for second semester of academic year 2006 (fall 06-spring 07). </p>

<p>Also, don’t know how it would be viewed differently if it were while I was in college. The only time I took a class from a CC was for English. At my school, you need Eng 101 and Eng 102 from my local CC to cover freshman English–and you must take freshman English to take writing intensive classes. I tested out of Eng 101, took Eng 102 online from the CC, and that combo transferred as freshman English to my school–a 1 semester class. Now, you might realize that some med schools require 2 semesters of English. For those med schools, I called the schools to tell them that my school’s policy is to use writing intensive classes to satisfy English requirements–so once I emailed the med schools the course descriptions for my writing intensive classes, my English requirements were satisfied. No idea if that answers your question, but that’s the only experience I have with CC.</p>

<p>As for dual enrollment, that’s technically what I did with SLU–but at my high school, the class you take for dual enrollment is actually AP Calc BC because SLU has an agreement with area AP Calc high school teachers. You can choose between dual enrollment credit (with SLU–carries a grade of whatever you got in the class) or AP credit (no college transcript–credit for whatever your school determines you get for the particular AP Exam score). Either way, same class, same work, same teacher. I chose dual enrollment but confusingly still referred to the class as AP Calc on my post.</p>

<p>MCAT2: You’re right, I worded it confusingly. AP Calc BC is actually a dual enrollment course at my school, which is (as you guessed) geographically near SLU. Students can choose to take dual enrollment credit (which carries a SLU transcript) or take the AP exam for AP credit. Either way, same class, same work, same teacher. I chose dual enrollment but still referred to the class as AP Calc BC (because to me, that’s what it was). </p>

<p>Your kid’s high school definitely sounds strange, but I guarantee you privates are equally weird. Consider this: my high school didn’t announce or, allegedly, record rank (except to determine valedictorian and salutatorian). Didn’t even give out top whatever percent lists. We didn’t use a 4.0 system–all was based on percents. No such thing as a weighted class (which I still don’t understand!), but if you took an AP class, you got an extra 5% added to your final grade (so an 89 (B) becomes a 94 (A-)). For every single class, 99+=A+, 95+=A, 93+=A-, 90+=B+, 86+=B…, which is likely why the extra 5% were added. I ended up with a 94.xxx as my final GPA there–converting it to a 4.0 system as required by many colleges was strangely challenging!</p>

<p>At least college grading seems so much more straightforward, once you can understand how each individual professor determines grades!</p>

<p>We digressed :)</p>

7

<p>I just wonder how med school admissions views all this…</p>

<p>On one hand…</p>

<p>Supposedly, if you do your first 2 years at a CC (where you could do some/all pre-med reqs) and then transfer to a 4 year, that’s ok. And, along with that thinking if you did dual enrollment while in HS, that’s cool, too, even if you then go to a 4 year after HS graduation.</p>

<p>On the other hand…</p>

<p>If you’re at a 4 year, it’s supposedly frowned upon if you do your pre-reqs at a CC (which suggests that you’re trying to take an easier version).</p>

<p>But, in the OPs case, s/he wants to do the CC math class after HS grad and before starting at the 4 year. So, would that be ok? And, would it be ok since it’s Cal and not OChem?</p>

<p>And, would med schools mind if you do take a summer class at another college, but it’s at a college that is well respected …like SLU.</p>

8

<p>“Supposedly, if you do your first 2 years at a CC (where you could do some/all pre-med reqs) and then transfer to a 4 year, that’s ok.”</p>

<p>Can’t say I’ve ever heard a consensus that this plan is OK or not. The general impression I get is that if you are serious about going to medical school pretty fresh out of undergrad, you should do everything possible to excel in your premed prereqs and take them at a 4-year university.</p>

<p>“But, in the OPs case, s/he wants to do the CC math class after HS grad and before starting at the 4 year. So, would that be ok? And, would it be ok since it’s Cal and not OChem?”</p>

<p>Still don’t know if the timing matters. If it were me, and I could go back in time to decide on college classes the summer after HS with the knowledge I have now about this application process, I would absolutely NOT take orgo or any other science prereqs because it’s so unknown how they’re viewed–whereas completing your prereqs at your university is clearly A-OK in adcoms’ books. I’d be fine taking calc or English at a CC since it’s not a science but is still a prereq. But mostly, I’d probably splash some cold water in my face, tell myself to wake up and smell the coffee, that I’m not in college yet and might as well enjoy my summer without having to stress out over classes. Plenty of time to stress out about college classes in college. IMHO, the kids who try to game the system–the real gunners–are obnoxious, and everyone (students, profs, advsiors) knows it. I would do EVERYTHING possible to avoid being one of those kids labeled “obnoxious premed”–and to me, that would include avoiding taking college classes before college starts with the aim of getting ahead.</p>

<p>(Obviously I realize all students are different, and all family situations are different, and all study plans are different, etc etc etc. I’m not at ALL suggesting that the way I would hypothetically handle this situation is correct–I just think it would work for me!)</p>

9

<p>The issue, mom, is that grad schools like to see how you perform against regular (premed) competition while taking a full academic load, and participating in college EC’s, or Saturday football days. Summer courses – whether at a juco or 4-year uni – demonstrate neither regular competition nor full load. (There are exceptions, of course. Santa Clara Uni offers a summer physics course has many Stanford premeds who have studied abroad; but these students have a good – an obvious – reason to take the summer program.)</p>

<p>For community colleges transfers who have already taken many of the prereqs, it’s probably a good idea to take upper division science courses at the 4-yr school. That way they can demonstrate superior performance at the next level.</p>

<p>That being said, taking one class at a juco probably won’t even be noticed.</p>

10

<p>Thanks for all the replies!
I think I may just take Calc I at a community college this summer and audit it and then take it at college too in the fall (the one during the summer would serve as preparation for the one at college). I have looked at the requirements for various med schools and your answers, and I gather that taking Calc I and a statistics class is fine to fulfill the math requirements… is this correct?</p>

11

<p>Yes, except for very few medical schools.
Try to take a statistics offered by a math or statistics department if you can, or at least by a science department. A “business statistics” class or one from "behavior science/psychology/social science, will often not be accepted.</p>

12

<p>^^At my D’s college, Stats is only offered thru individual departments, whether it be psych, econ, biz, or sociology. And of course, stats is offered by the math department, but it is not accepted by any of the major departments for major credit (except math).</p>