<p>At the most selective preps everyone does not get into Harvard and Yale, but virtually everyone gets into top 20 schools. Because of the excellent counseling, most students take a very well informed look at colleges and most decide the biggest names are not the best fit. You see a lot looking at the LACs as far more diserable than the ivies for undergraduate work. Prep school students are often more aware of what they want tos study and are truly looking for the strongest programs in their area of interest. Williams for art history is popular, Peinceton for math buffs and those dying to study with Joyce Carol Oates. I think it's fair to say that the prep schools guide students into wonderful fits that are by and large the nations best programs. Of course there are factions that are pressured by parents, because of culture, to apply to the top ivies. We felt sorry for that group.</p>
<p>montmartre-
Interesting post, but I'm wondering if some of your descriptions may be a tad hyperbolic? I'm not sure which prep school you attend, but at Exeter (considered one of the largest of the elite preps, 1000 students total), I don't see any of the parallels you mention. </p>
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<pre><code>Perhaps the caliber of students at your school is higher than at Exeter, and if that's the case, I apologize, but having attended Phillips Exeter for more than two years, it is highly unlikely that the majority of those applying to Harvard would possess all of the extraordinary credentials of which you boast. In every class there are maybe 10 or so absolutely amazing students (Tiankai Liu '04 comes to mind, 1st place IMO champion), but granted 50+ students matriculate at HYPSM each year, there certainly is room for the oustanding but not internationally acclaimed applicant. In fact, if you are in the top 50 at Exeter, that places you in the top 20% of your class. Plenty of students attend highly selective universities who are outside of that 20%. In fact, the gpa cut-off for 20% hovers around a 9.8, which is exactly what the AVERAGE accepted gpa rate at Harvard is.
</code></pre>
<p>I agree with your message; there certainly are many many phenomonal boarding schools out there worthy of consideration. But I would argue that any bright motivated student would be equally challenged and gratified at some of the more elite schools (Exeter, Andover, St. Paul's etc.), sometimes even more so depending on the capabilities of the student. Many parents and students read these forums and use the information pooled here as their primary resource in their search for boarding schools; I just didn't want to leave any misconceptions uncorrected.</p>
<p>cfunk, thank you very much. After reading montmarte, I was ready to pull all my apps! Jazzpiano, mind saying where you went? Your posts are an inspiration. Merry Christmas!!</p>
<p>I went to Groton.</p>
<p>bumpppppppppppp</p>
<p>Monmartre, a friend and I discussed tour post last night, and we're really wondering where you went. At what prep do the only encourage the top 50 to apply to top schools?</p>
<p>Huge thanks to jazzpiano who has gone out of her way to assist my daughter and myself. I highly encourage anyone interested in these schools to get into the jazz network of incredible young adults who have stories you will want to hear.</p>
<p>Kirmum. boarding school can be a wonderful experience for a student, a disaster, and every degree in between. If you are interested in the option, certainly investigate it and visit the schools with your student. I can tell you my personal experiences with the situation as I have moved around a lot with many kids. My girls simply did not want to board, so that took care of that situation. My oldest son probably should have boarded, but for a variety of reasons we did not explore the option until his junior year and I was reluctant to put him into the sports boarding programs that he could have gone to and he was only accepted to two boarding schools I liked, and he disliked both intensely, so that ended that situation. We could not get him into any independent day schools though they did not have the selectivity or "cache" of the two boarding schools where he was accepted. The same situation occured with S2. I ended up putting S2 into a boarding school where he now is but he goes as a day student as does his brother. I could not get either into the independent day schools in my area so they commute over an hour each way to go to school. And again the independent day schools here are not as well known, nor as selective, mathematically so, but they just did not make it through the admissions process. The younger one will probably board next year as the commute is terrible. The older one graduates this year, has just been accepted to Yale, but he never could make the standards to get to board there--half the time he would have been persona non grata at the school as a boarder anyways, and if he had boarded, I am pretty sure he would have gotten kicked out as the rules are quite strict at the school. At least he can conduct his "personal business" 50 miles from the proverbial flagpole that is in the middle of the school quad and it does not involve the school. Many of his friends who boarded were kicked out or at least kicked out of the dorms. </p>
<p>The best thing about the boarding schools is that the kids can have a whole spread of things do do socially, and academically. It is a one stop shop. And because these schools operate to maximize EC participation, all kids tend to get involved heavily in the school community activities. It becomes their world. For someone like my middle son, it is perfect, as he is introverted and does need encouragement to get involved. The problem is if your child wants to go beyond the school community, as these schools really command 100% of your child's time. For example, those kids who want to join a prestigious communty orchestra will find themselves hard pressed to find the time. If your child is better served by a host of very high quality outside activities, he may find it a conflict or actually limiting to be in a boarding school. For my oldest son, for instance, the level he was in athletics was difficult to accomodate at all but a few boardingschool and those tended to be specifically sports schools where other things where not addressed at the level I wanted. Whereas at home he could participate in his sport for the school team for the season but work privately with an elite club as did all of the kids in the area at his level. My son who is in performing arts has been embattled with his school which has a strong performing arts program in that he has found venues outside of the school that are more beneficial to him, but the school vies for his time. He really wanted to graduated in January because of this conflict and the restrictions. There are some kids going to the local schools that could adjust their schedules and do both. Can't do it with his school for some good reasons and some stupid reasons. In fact, instrumental to getting into Yale was work he did for some at Yale outside of his school who told him to apply, and who lobbied admissions for his admissions. Though his school gets a goodly number into the ivies each year, no one there was able to lobby for him anywhere nearly at that level at any school. And yet he nearly was not able to participate in that program where he made this contact because he was going to this school.</p>
<p>If you are interested in some admissions numbers to the selective colleges from a particular school, if you can get a peek at the college book that most of these prep school keep, you can get some idea of the kids who are getting in without legacy, celebrity, URM hooks. Yes, public schools have such kids too, but the numbers of such kids with these hooks at some of these prep schools is staggering. It does not help your kid an iota if all of the kids getting in have built in admissions advantages your child does not have. In fact, if the grading is tough, your kid could end up at a disadvantage at one of these schools. A "B" at Prep does NOT an "A" at Public make. There are some leeways given, but usually not enough to offset. Usually the freshman year in particular is given a big allowance as kids going away do have to make a major adjustment. And if your kid is not a well known boarding school, there will not be any allowances made at those colleges who do not know the school. Also the bigger state schools tend to be formula driven and that will not be to the advantage of a student who is not high up there in the prep school. As an example, my son's transcript is being given the "hairy eyeball" at UMich because of the peaks and valleys with a request for a midterm report before any academic decision will be made, whereas Yale did not make a murmur looking at the same set of grades.</p>
<p>Good luck in finding something that suits your daughter. If she is currently in a good day school, you may be able to have her come back, if a year away does not suit her. I know at my sons' school, kids do go to other schools and then transfer back for a variety of reasons. A number of them in my older son's class have done this. My close friend whose daughter was at a local independent day school was told when her daughter went to Choate Rosemary Hall, that she was always welcome back to the school. She did stay at Choate and loved it there.</p>
<p>Kirmom, I would beg to differ from your experience of boarding school parents as " the best" parents you know. One of my DD's childhood friends just started attending Choate this year. Her parents are constantly telling us how much money they are spending to educate her, and seem to be using this just as an opportunity to brag. In previous years (child is 15), the student has not gotten the best grades in school, been very mean to other students, exceptionally abusive to parents and sibling, and spent all of last summer getting drunk and smoking. When we pointed her behavior out to her Mom, her answer was, (and always is when child gets in trouble) oh Kids will be Kids. This Kid constantly starts something, and then drops out, leaving the rest of the group/team/classmates in the lurch. I cannot hold up these parents as an example of anything good except excellence at spoiling their kids. Second child in this family is a complete brat!! I feel very stongly that sending kids away to school during the teenage years is wrong. You will miss so much of your childs life, you have no idea. These are extremely important years for you to help nuture your child. They leave home soon enough, find a way at home or move your family if you feel the school system in your area is not up to par.</p>
<p>Socal, you can find families and kids like that everywhere. Yes, they are at the top boarding schools, the little local public schools, the single sex schools, the military schools, the parochial schools. I don't think that any type of school is particularly prone to this syndrome. Though I have not boarded any of my kids, I certainly believe that it can be a wonderful experience for some children and families, and sometimes it is the best option.`Some home lives and families are pretty danged dysfunctional, and going away might be good solution. Sometimes, it is not the best option either, or outright terrible for all concerned.</p>
<p>Thanks for your words of wisdom Jamimom. I just chuckle now at the extremism of those who believe there is an absolute answer. I am really looking foward to my gander at these schools in February.</p>
<p>I echo what so many others have stated already: there's no absolute wrong or right here. If you are looking for a valid argument against BS, you'll find plenty. If you are looking for a valid argument in support of BS, you'll find plenty.</p>
<p>Thanks kirmum, we really enjoyed talking to your daughter. She is a prep if ever there was one! Boyfriend (he's a Paulie) and I had some interesting thoughts after the conversation. We really believe you can easily tell a kid who belongs at a top prep. We had spent time helping his cousin with his applications the day before, and wondered if we should mention to his parents that we just don't see him at the schools he's applying to. To us, good candidates seem much older than others their age. They seem to focus in ways other kids their age don't.</p>
<p>We were talking last night about why so many of our friends from college went to the best preps. I met boyfriend my first week of college. His theory is that we were the only ones who had time on our hands because college was easy after the load we took in high school. There's some real truth there.</p>
<p>My theory is that kids who belong at these schools are old souls. They have a maturity that's unusual. They grow up fast.</p>
<p>Jazz, you and your friends are amazing young people. 25 and making a big contribution to the world already. For those who don't know you, Jazz and a friend started a non profit organization straight out of college. She's now hoping to get an MBA with a non profit focus. Thanks for everything and that B school would be crazy to turn you down!</p>
<p>I only read the last page but Jazzpiano is right on that boarding school advising (at least in our experience in a CA boarding school) is very personal and all about fit. They actively try to get parents to trust the child and 'butt out' of pressuring the kids. At the same time they guide the child to the most reputable school they can get into within the preferences of the child (not the parent).</p>
<p>Other boarding school advantages are the opportunity to form deep personal relationships with their teachers and mentors. Although my dd has to give up a daily in-person relationship with me, it's not too much. We're on the phone most every day and email and IM. She's only an hour plane ride and comes home about every 6 weeks and has long holiday breaks. In trade, she lives and works with an amazing variety of adults who have perspectives and knowledge in various areas (both arty and academic and sporty) far beyond me. She gravitates to those who strike a chord. She is mentored academically by some, had personal friendships with other, and gets paid to babysit once in awhile where she is a trusted family member, practically. I'm sure she will know some of these people for her entire life. I don't think this situation in any way diminishes our relationship or my influence on her, and her life choices. Rather, we are very close, and it is a sacrifice I have made for her. It is hard on me, but it is not for her. (Well, after the initial adjustment).</p>
<p>jazzpiano, do you not think it is possible to go in "green" and come out with an unusual maturity? i guess my question is do you need to be prep material going in or are you not formed by the experience?</p>
<p>my daughter entered prep day school in 6th gd. We are not typical prep family. Blue collar, didn't attend 4 year college, yet she was attending school with kids whose parents were top university professors, judges, well known artists and writers, and even movie stars. While some of the social aspects of the school were difficult ( we always were outbid at the auctions and a couple kids were surprised at the size of our house and the age of our car) mostly it was a great experience for her.
While I do wish in retrospect she hadn't had such a controlled student body at her school ( I mean while it was in diverse part of city, still mainly upper middle white folks), she did have a great academic experience and she was able to get diversity the next year when she worked in an elementary school that had 20% homeless kids and at a teen community center in the inner city.</p>
<p>Cubfan, lets differentiate say sophistication, from maturity. I think all I went to prep school with were mature. I think that's what the interview process assures among other things. Dealing with a lot of homesickness and other maturity issues would just be too difficult. However there were kids who I would call much more "green" than others. Some of our classmates spoke multiple languages and had been all over the world. Others had never left their State of birth. Those kids left with much greater sophistication.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4, as someone who went to a day prep and then boarding school, the two could not be more different. There are no parent's cars to compare at boarding schools, no designer clothes or lack thereof at most and no houses to compare. While some kids are much more wealthy than others at a boarding school, the emphesis is infinitely decreased when you board. The dress code, dorm rooms and rules are great equilizers. Many ultra wealthy go undiscovered for the first time in their lives and love it!</p>
<p>Jazzpiano, I'm not sure that I agree with your assertion that boarding school's the great equalizer.....We all knew at boarding school whose father was a CEO, who summered at Fisher's and who was bagging groceries during their summers.....Everything from Christmas vacations to weekend clothing to electronic equipment told who had money and who didn't.....I remember one extremely wealthy girl who dressed in tattered jeans and ratty sweaters and was "outed" as being super rich after about two years....not all kids cared, but we all knew the difference...</p>
<p>dke, I'm wondering how old you are. I've read stories about John Kerry at prep and been shocked that his clothes stood out as below par. In my day (prep '98), the wealthy truly went out of their way to blend in. Also, at top preps today, the really wealthy are truly a minority. Again, I would imagine that at preps below the top without endowments to support many fin aid students, things may be very different. I have enough friends who went to top preps though, to know that it really was still hard to tell in college who was middle class and who was wealthy until you visited their homes.</p>