<p>^^ The same goes for Rice and the Houston Symphony.</p>
<p>I realize this thread is about orchestras, but just out of curiosity, I looked up the current top forty pop songs and then looked up the backgrounds of the first dozen (got bored after 12) and found that there was not a single college graduate in that 12, let alone anyone from a āprestegeā music school - not even Berklee, Belmont or USC Thorton.</p>
<p>as I wouldāve expected in the popular music world, imagep. (And btw, Thorntonās popular music program is only in itās 3rd year. There are no graduates yet. Two students that I know of have left after being signed by labels.)</p>
<p>I donāt know why I only remembered this now, but when I was at CCM for my audition the chair of the piano department said that some people do better as the big fish in a small pond and others as the small fish in the big pond. He recommended that if youāre going to go for all three degrees, you do at least one in each scenario. This way you can diversify your experiences competitively and performance-wise. So, for those who plan on getting all three, I guess a mix of prestige and non-prestige is best.</p>
<p>Do orchestras have blind auditions? I thought our large nationally ranked orchestra did that. Then they donāt know anything about who you are or where you went to school. Iād be interested to know how the auditions work at the major orchestras.</p>
<p>This thread is touching on something very important. Really consider the market that you are graduating in. Thatās where most of your connections will be and where you will be getting most of your work opportunities. This is especially true for VP grad students.</p>
<p>When D3 was on the verge of a decision between a prestigious school where she would be full pay or a less prestigious school with a full scholarship, she had the opportunity to chat informally backstage with several professional musicians. The older ones (established careers in the field) all urged her to go for prestige, while the younger ones (still paying off college loans) unanimously told her to follow the money.</p>
<p>As many people here know, she chose the latter path. I like PianoManās advice, though, and it echoes what her plans for the future are at this point. </p>
<p>I also thought pro orchestras had blind auditions. I know there are those networking possibilities, though. For instance, Iāve heard that one reason CIM grads are likely to win CSO seats is because they are trained to that sound by their CSO teachers, with the effect that they would have an advantage even in a blind audition.</p>
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<p>Hereās how it generally works for wind players: They advertise the position, you send in your resume. You are normally then invited either to audition, or to send a pre-screening CD to be considered for audition, depending on your resume and how that particular orchestra works. The live audition rounds are usually screened, at least until the last round, when some orchestras take away the screen.</p>
<p>For the āmajor orchestrasā, the ābig 5ā, the various strong regional orchestras (ie Seattle, Minnesota, St. Louis, etc), and most mid size professional orchestras they generally all are blind, as are most major orchestras around the world (there actually exists some sort of professional standards for orchestras that include hiring practices, that a lot of orchestras have signed on to). It might vary with small groups, local orchestras and such, they tend to be made up more of local players, and these are not the kinds of things you make a career on (these are groups where you make 500 bucks or a thousand bucks a season:). </p>
<p>For most open positions, they publish a call for auditions in magazines and/or with the musicians union, players submit resumes, which are screened by a committee after the resume has been redacted (i.e takes out any identifying information that might indicate gender, race, etc), and from that cv they decide who they will audition (typical numbers seem to be up to 2/3rdās of submitted resumes get an audition, roughly if they get 150 responses, they audition 75-100 people), then the people audition in back of a screen,making sure that for example there isnāt anything to distinguish the auditioner (i.e the sound of a womenās heels, etc)ā¦they are told be the auditioning panel what they want to hear (those auditioning get the required excerpts list I believe when it is posted), and they playā¦From what I hear, there also can be multiple rounds of auditions, until they find someone they like. I have heard at that point there is an interview process as well,maybe with the top handful of candidates, and then they choose (sometimes the music director has the upper hand, sometimes it is the audition committed and director coming to a consensus, etc)ā¦usually at that point most orchestras have a probation period, to make sure the person fits. In other words, it isnāt easy to get an orchestra job and it isnāt getting any easierā¦</p>
<p>Whether the orchestra auditions are blind really isnāt a factor in my question if all the non-prestige school applicants have been screened out at the paper resume stage.</p>
<p>In most wind auditions, players who donāt get through the resume āscreeningā have an opportunity to send a CD to get through - thatās where a great player from a ānon-prestigeā school has the opportunity to put themselves on a (more or less) even playing field with those who got through that initial round due to resume.</p>
<p>I think that Chicago Symphony is rather unique in that I believe they will let anyone audition who wants to. They do not screen by CV and they do blind auditions. The current principal cellist was sitting last stand for a regional orchestra and had a not very good instrument. He had to borrow a top flight one for his audition. It obviously paid off :)</p>
<p>The other thing to think about for people wanting to prepare for an orchestra position is to make sure that the school had orchestra repertory classes available. Most of the top conservatories have these classes often taught by a major symphony principal player. Many of the lesser known schools do not offer these classes and their students are at a distinct disadvantage when auditioning for orchestra seats.</p>
<p>I have a couple of questions:</p>
<p>1) Where does the Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra rank? Is it considered a regional orchestra?</p>
<p>2) Do pianists in these kinds of orchestras only have part-time jobs? Does anyone know what the pay would be like for them? I realize thereās probably only one per orchestra and not all orchestral repertoire has piano parts.</p>
<p>Milwaukee ranks itself in the top 25 orchestras in the US, which places it in the regional tier, I believe. The keyboard players in any orchestra usually play not only piano, but celesta and organ as well, and at least in the major groups are considered to be FT members.
Just as an FYI:
In 2010. the Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra (MSO) has a budget of $16.5 million and employs 88 musicians for 39 weeks a year. The players earn an annual base salary of $55,000.
PianoMan12- nice to see someone from Whitefish Bay! I was born in the vicinity and my grandparents lived there forever.</p>
<p>What a small world! Thanks for the info. I donāt really want to spend my whole life in the same city but if I was going to stay here, that would be an ideal job, assuming it just happened to open at the right time. Maybe I should take some organ lessons in collegeā¦ Iām assuming if you can play piano you can figure out celesta.</p>
<p>Each orchestra is different. As Shennie mentioned, Chicago allows all comers. So does the NY Phil. Others, such as St. Louis, are extremely picky, and judge by resume, which seems to require success at a professional level before you get an invite. </p>
<p>Yes, reputation of school does have an impact on some. But there are ways around it. Winning competitions, establishing a solo reputation, winning a spot at New World Symphony, playing with prestigious summer programs (Tanglewood, Aspen, Verbier, etc.), subbing with good orchestrasā¦ These things all indicate on paper that you may have the skills the orchestra is looking for. So not attending one of the ānameā schools may not be career ending. However, studying with a poor teacher, or playing with a poor orchestra may limit your success in these other avenues.</p>
<p>And, as has been alluded to, some of the summer programs and such are swayed by what school you attend, so there can be a cumulative effect. And networking opportunities (such as subbing with your teacherās orchestra) can be limited if the teacher or department does not have contacts. Philly uses a lot of Curtis students, Cleveland uses a lot of CIM students. It has to do with networking in part; the other part is that the teachers train the students in the appropriate sound. In horn, at least, there is a very different sound preferred by New York than by Atlanta than by Clevelandā¦</p>
<p>Sometimes folks think that saving the ānameā school for grad school is a better option, but be aware that sometimes those schools (or individual teachers) are equally persuaded by the prestige of your undergrad.</p>
<p>Fascinating read! Takes me back to my life as a high school oboist. I lived in a tiny southern WV town, had zero opportunities to play in (or see live) any orchestras. I traveled to the only oboe teacher I could get to, at Virginia Tech. Did what I could with All State bands and such, attended auditioned summer programs at the Eastman School and CCM, finally attending CCM for undergrad. Attended a few regional auditionsā¦</p>
<p>And now? I realized the āstarving musicianā deal was more than a romantic fiction, went back and got my ed. degree and have taught special education for 25 or so years. As d went off to college this past fall, I turned her room into a music studio, and I am now learning the cello (slowlyā¦) just because I think itās coolā¦</p>
<p>But this all brings me to a question ā do the schools do any better job of helping their performers find work when all is said and done? I felt incredibly prepared in my music, but UNprepared (and totally clueless) about the business side of landing a job (keep in mind this was the 80sā¦we didnāt have much in the way of prescreens, and that newfangled Internet thing was only a way for computer geniuses to send dirty jokes cross countryā¦). Soā¦current students and recent grads ā did you find help from your conservatory or teacher in locating work? How are the job prospects these days? The process?</p>
<p>Mommafrog-</p>
<p>I canāt speak for every music school, but I know several of the major ones have workshops and classes on the business side, on entrepeneurship and on the changing face of music and many of these are mandatory. Among other things, that the traditional jobs are even more limited then they once were, and even if someone is in the top realms of soloist, the old days (as Anne Akiko Meyers called it) of being ātaken careā of is long gone, where artists management and record companies coddled the name soloists, today a lot more is self promotion, networking, etc. How good or bad it is I donāt know, just thought I would pass that on. Hopefully conservatories and such are starting to realize we arenāt in 1930 any more and start kids thinking of reality early:). </p>
<p>In answer to the question about orchestras, I am pretty certain binx and others are correct, I suspect that people who went to ālesserā schools are screened out automatically, rather that the top music schools may provide the kind of opportunities to students that goes on a musical cv and makes them attractive to audition (if they do screen the cvās), rather then inate bias. I also think that like jobs out of college in general, that professional experience and playing ability is going to matter more and more. It may be that going to a ātop programā gives more opportunities that show favorably on a cv, but I donāt think it is quite like investment banking or certain law firms, where if you didnāt go to an ivy or ivy like school, might as well not waste the time applying there, even if you have good professional experience.</p>
<p>I understand that goat entrails arranged ritually at certain phases of the moon also play a role.</p>
<p>Yeah, what stradmom said haha</p>