Princeton is what?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>Regarding diversity, it has nothing to do with numbers when you're talking about schools like HYP. See for an explanation:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/yale-university/438053-secret-societies-2.html#post5140872%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/yale-university/438053-secret-societies-2.html#post5140872&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>In terms of the finaid numbers, they also don't give you an accurate picture at all of socioeconomic diversity. One school could give 3 students grants of $500 each, and it would have a higher finaid "percentage" than another school that gave 2 students grants of $25,000 each. The percentage of private school students doesn't tell you anything either, because while some private school kids come from boarding schools with very rich student bodies, others are full-scholarship students at those boarding schools and many others come from urban parochial schools that have a mostly middle- or low-income student population; others come from day schools, and you also have to remember that public school students are not always more "diverse" than private school kids, coming from school districts like New Trier or Scarsdale that may in fact have wealthier students than your average prep school. Princeton has great financial aid and is much more "diverse" than it was a few decades ago, but in terms of overall socioeconomic diversity, it still lags behind more urban schools like Columbia, Yale and UC-Berkeley by some margin. </p>

<p>Of course, once again, such numbers mean nothing on paper -- the real key to diversity is what I wrote about in the post linked to above.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
In terms of the finaid numbers, they also don't give you an accurate picture at all of socioeconomic diversity. One school could give 3 students grants of $500 each, and it would have a higher finaid "percentage" than another school that gave 2 students grants of $25,000 each.

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<p>It's for this reason that places like Princeton and Yale also release the average amount of aid they grant. We've discussed these numbers before, posterX, but you've shown a record of selective amnesia, so let's compare them again.</p>

<p>Average size of financial aid grant:
Princeton: $31,000
Yale: $23,475</p>

<p>Percentage of students who receive financial aid:
Princeton: 54%
Yale: 41%</p>

<p>Sources:
Princeton</a> University | The Difference at Princeton
Financial</a> Aid | Freshmen | Office of Undergraduate Admissions</p>

<p>On both counts, it seems that Princeton does more to reach out to people of lower economic classes than does Yale. But don't just take my word for it: while posterX seems generally okay with the amount of aid Yale grants, many Yalies seem far less comfortable:</p>

<p>Yale</a> Daily News - Yale should reconsider place in aid group</p>

<p>
[quote]
Whatever the reality behind the shady facade of the 568 Group, Yale faces a decision between loyalty to the 568 Group and catching up to its historical competitors, Princeton and Harvard. Although only 41 percent of the Yale community directly receives financial aid money, every single Yale student suffers when we lose a student to Harvard or Princeton over financial aid.

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<p>Yale</a> Daily News - Students march for aid reform</p>

<h2>
[quote]
Speakers at the rally discussed Yale's financial aid policies in comparison to those of peer institutions such as Harvard and Princeton universities, which they said offer more favorable aid packages.

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<p>I'm also not sure I see your second point.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The percentage of private school students doesn't tell you anything either, because while some private school kids come from boarding schools with very rich student bodies, others are full-scholarship students at those boarding schools and many others come from urban parochial schools that have a mostly middle- or low-income student population; others come from day schools, and you also have to remember that public school students are not always more "diverse" than private school kids, coming from school districts like New Trier or Scarsdale that may in fact have wealthier students than your average prep school.

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<p>No one's claiming that the public v. private comparison is the end-all statistic, but I don't think you can claim with a straight face that it isn't very telling. Whatever your objections, I'll bet you two things:</p>

<p>1) Students from private schools are ON AVERAGE wealthier than students from public schools. There is, after all, limited amount of scholarship aid for some of the best private schools, and this aid must often be funded by the tuition payments wealthier students. Public school, on the other hand, is always free.</p>

<p>2) Sure, there are differences in the wealth of students that come from public schools, but there's no reason to think that that difference is more pronounced at Princeton than at Yale. Put another way, if 10% of Princeton's public school students come from wealthy school districts like New Trier, chances are that 10% of Yale's public school students do too. Heck, given the restrictions of Yale's financial aid packages, I'd venture to guess that public school students at Yale may well be wealthier than their Princeton counterparts.</p>

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<p>Thise figures still don't tell you anything at all about socioeconomic diversity; just that recently Yale students have been getting more loans as a percentage of their packages while Princeton students getting more grants. That will probably change when Yale announces its new policy in a few weeks. But that's not my point. And even if you took average figures of all loans + grants and Pells (which you did not do, probably because those figures would show Yale to have "needier" students than Princeton), it still wouldn't give you conclusive evidence on which school attracts an entering class with greater socioeconomic diversity. As far as public versus private, the figures are so close that the things I cited above do matter in terms of determining which place is actually more diverse. </p>

<p>And all of your debate misses the main point that I made, which was that diversity on paper doesn't mean that a campus is actually a place where people of different backgrounds interact on a constant basis (see the link in my post above for more detailed explanation).</p>

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<p>Let's give a little perspective on this discussion. </p>

<p>Class of 2010 Public versus Private High Schools</p>

<p>Princeton-----61% from public schools and 39% from private schools
Yale ----------54.4% from public schools and 45.6% from private schools
UC Berkeley ---87% from public schools and 13% from private schools</p>

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<p>The above statement is, I think, a good example of the problem with these stereotypes. Opinions, such as the above, stated as facts but with no supporting evidence do nothing more than perpetuate stereotypes. There is nothing wrong with being a strong advocate for a particular school as posterX is for Yale. Still, let’s not have any muddying of the waters here. The numbers in the above citations absolutely speak for themselves and come straight from the university admission offices. </p>

<p>The schools posterX has noted are all fine institutions. Each is highly diverse. In terms of ethnic distribution, Columbia, Harvard, Princeton and Yale are virtually indistinguishable but it is simply a fact that a) Yale has a significantly higher percentage of prep and private school students and that b) Princeton has a significantly higher percentage of its undergraduates on financial aid.</p>

<p>Here are the exact figures for ethnic diversity as reported by the respective institutions in their Common Data Set forms which have been reported publicly by U.S. News.</p>

<p>



Ethnic Percentage Breakdown</p>

<p>University   Af-Am   Asian-Am    Latino     Native Am     International</p>

<p>Columbia     7         16             9           1                 8
Harvard      8         14             7            1                9
Princeton    9         14             7            1                9
Yale         8         13             8            1                8

</p>

<p>Kenf1234, thank you for your comment. You’re absolutely correct in pointing out that all of the Ivies have a dramatically higher percentage of private school (and wealthy students) than do fine public schools like Berkeley. Point well taken!</p>