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Since Princeton took the lead among Ivy League schools to formally adopt a grade-deflation policy three years ago ? limiting A's to an average 35% across departments ? students say the pressure to score the scarcer A has intensified. Students say they now eye competitive classmates warily and shy away from classes perceived as difficult...</p>
<p>Staying ahead of the curve</p>
<p>Other universities have talked about curbing grade inflation, but none is known to have gone as far as Princeton. Some, such as Columbia University, have tried unsuccessfully to curb the upward spiral by posting average course grades on transcripts. Others, including Harvard, Cornell and the University of Pennsylvania, have not-so-subtly pressured professors by circulating class averages. Harvard declined to comment; a Dartmouth spokeswoman said there were no plans to alter grading policies.</p>
<p>At Cornell, a well-intentioned grade-awareness effort backfired. Class averages are posted online, which students use to search for classes where the median grade is an A. Those courses have grown in popularity, says Ronald Ehrenberg, director of Cornell's Higher Education Research Institute.</p>
<p>Professors resistant to lowering grades often point out that student quality has risen over the same time period and they should have discretion to dole out grades as they see fit, Ehrenberg says. That's why Princeton continues to stand alone on the subject, he says: Attempting an institution-wide policy will be met with resistance.</p>
<p>"It's not surprising there has been no movement to follow Princeton's lead," says Stuart Rojstaczer, a retired Duke professor whose often-cited 2002 study found grade inflation at most universities. "The leadership just isn't there elsewhere."...
<p>Yes it is hard on kids. They have to work hard - very hard, but it is not that bad. I don't think majority of them eye their classmates warily (my son says they still do group homework) and not majority of them drop out of the classes if the class make up is on the high side.</p>
<p>My daughter transferred to Swarthmore, which is well known for grade deflation, from another LAC. She works very very hard for her grades, but has finally gotten out of the mindset that any grade other than an A is a tragedy. This was not the case during her freshman year at another excellent LAC.</p>
<p>I prefer to view the grade inflation phenomena a grade compression. When the campus wide gpa rises it becomes more difficult to identify the exceptional scholars from those who are "merely" very good students by looking at gpa alone. If requires highly selective grad schools and prospective employers to look more closely at the transcript which is always a good thing.</p>
<p>And it is in the academic plan where the best shine brightest. Marite's son taking the suicidal Harvard math sequenct, Cur's daughter engaged in independent research as a freshman are examples we here are familiar with. Their final gpa may not shine a bright light on their ability but their academic plan certainly will. The more typical student, even at a Princeton or Cornell, will merely search out an easier path to graduation and assume that the lofty gpa alone will ensure post-grad success of high order. And given the cailbre of their students this approach will usually be successful also.</p>
<p>As you can see, I am not pleased with grade inflation but do not see it as an academic evil either. it is what it is.</p>
<p>First, was there grade inflation? Just because GPAs climbed doesn't mean grade inflation. Average SATs have also climbed over 30 years. Now that the freshmen class has close to a top 1% SAT (and it was a lot lower 30 years ago) wouldn't you expect higher grades if standards were constant?</p>
<p>Second, the famous 35% number is only for first and second year courses as the standards are more lenient in the advanced level courses.</p>
<p>Third, the sciences and engineering courses were already in accord with the policy. The Arts were not. Perhaps that is a reason why the valedictorian and salutatorian seems always not to be a scientist or engineer.</p>
<p>Fourth, isn't refreshing to see leadership. Pton led with eliminating loans and it 55% on financial aid dwarfs its peer group. Now combating grade inflation ahead of its competitors. You have to give the administration a lot of credit to tackle big issues.</p>
<p>There was a thread in the Harvard forum last year where some current students said classes with curves curved to a B+. My sister at Dartmouth says classes are curved to a B-. At the University of Chicago, it really depends on the professor, but a traditional bell curve isn't at all unusual. I like the fact that I need to work hard for my grades. Most proponents of grade inflation bring up the point that all students are performing at high levels and deserve As. I like the fact that most of my professors expect more than what I can produce with a minimum of sweat, and it makes me perform at a higher level than I would at a school where I could get As easier. If you need to work hard, you'll work harder than if you don't need to. </p>
<p>I'm concerned that the new policies have brought on competition among students. I'm wondering whether that is a reflection of this new policy or of the academic atmosphere in general. Students at my school are not at all competitive with each other, even though As are scarce. I think the difference is that the way Princeton has designed the policy will make students compete with each other for As instead of competing with themselves and their abilities. I hope that after the professors become more accustomed to a new line of grading, the strict policy currently in place can fade.</p>
<p>corranged, the mean Dartmouth gpa is 3.36, significantly higher than the 2.67(B-) gpa reported by your sister. The mean gpa at UChicago is about 3.35, so I doubt few if any instructors there grade using a normal curve and using such a statistical tool in meting out grades is academically unethical in my opinion. How well a student understands the syllabus material should be the only factor in determining a grade.</p>
<p>Even Cornell, with the reputation for no "grade inflation" has relatively few courses where the class average is less than a B+ and very few where the average is less than a B.</p>
<p>Where I do agree is your opinion that college instructors should challenge their students and if there is a significant improvement in students attending over the years, the course syllabus should be more challenging. The problem is that improvement in student preparation is almost always very gradual and in some areas like engineering almost non-existant. The only change I have observed over 30+ years of teaching is a diminishing number of students at the lower end of the scale, thus the W, I, D and F grade assignments are more unusual.</p>
<p>Some months ago, when the issude of grade inflation was brought up on CC, I looked up the GPAs for Harvard, Princeton, and a few other schools for the time when grade inflation began to be discussed at Harvard (around 1997 or so, I believe). Harvard turned out to be in line with other schools and even had a slightly lower GPA than Princeton (I don't know how statistically significant that difference was). But Harvard discussed it publicly, and when Harvard does something it gets reported widely. </p>
<p>The Harvard discussion had been launched by publicity over its Honors system. This was easily fixed: make the qualifying GPA higher, and the percentage of Honors gets halved. But it had nothing to do with grading as such. While, as the article suggests, the College subtly hints to profs to be mindful of grade inflation by publishing grading statistics, this does not seem to have led to significantly different grading practices. The loudest opponents of grade deflation are actually profs who have taught elsewhere before coming to Harvard. </p>
<p>One of the conclusions reached by then Dean of the College Susan Pedersen (now at Columbia) was exactly what Originaloog reported. The problem with grade inflation was not inflation per se, but grade compression, i.e., the difficulty of distinguishing between Bs and B+s, B+s and A-s, and so forth.</p>
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The only change I have observed over 30+ years of teaching is a diminishing number of students at the lower end of the scale, thus the W, I, D and F grade assignments are more unusual.
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<p>This seems to be a very logical result of the increasingly selective admission process at top schools.</p>
<p>"think grade inflation is good - you paid your money, and you should receive value in return." Surely you jest!</p>
<p>Makes one think of the lessons of economics. At first debasing the currency makes everyone happy. Wages are up! And before merchants catch on it does seem like you can buy more with your income. Gradually the realization sinks in that society is no wealthier than before, but that each unit of money is worth less.</p>
<p>Same with grades. At first employers are delighted what bright kids are applying, over time they realize the kids are no smarter than they were before, just the grades were inflated. And if its self-esteem that matters, lets just give every kid an A in every class; then they'll all feel really good ;)</p>
<p>The employers realize no such thing. I am an employer. Largest employer in my state - we ARE the state. Very, very rarely do applicants submit their transcripts, or their gradepoint averages, and when they do, we look askance at them. My last hire - an Evergreen grad, had no grades or GPA. We hired him over two Ivy grads - one Princeton, one Dartmouth (as well as a bunch of others). The Dartmouth guy was the only one to submit a transcript (which we thought was a giggle.)</p>
<p>Average grades at all the Ivies (and most of the prestige LACs) I've looked at are up between .5 and .7 from what they were just 15 years ago, with the greatest inflation being at Swarthmore, Cornell, and UChicago (among those I looked at.) They are all well above those at most flagship universities, "where students really have to work to get an A". I don't have any sense whatsoever that the social fabric of the nation is falling apart as a result.</p>
<p>Limiting As to 35% of grades? Must be an awful lot of A minuses. ;) (Now if they said 35% had to be C's, then things would be "interesting". Not as in "good", but as in "interesting".)</p>
<p>I also don't have a sense that very many people care. And of those who do, the overwhelming majority LIKE grade inflation. And for $180k, they should.</p>
<p>Definitely there is grade inflation: when I was at MIT (I graduated in '75), the curve was C-centered for undergraduate (a C was any grade within 1/2 standard deviation of the average) and B-centered for graduate (and yes, the professors posted the curves); now they are B-centered and B+-centered.</p>
<p>There has to be grade inflation at top schools. It's the only way to equalize GPAs from top schools with the GPAs from average schools. Look on mdapplicants.com. Students with 3.3-3.5 GPA's from schools like Harvard, JHU, Princeton, etc. still outperform 3.7-3.8 students from state schools on the MCAT even with grade inflation in effect at elite schools. </p>
<p>And those median grade reports that Cornell publishes have done me more harm than good. I signed up for some classes this semester based on the median grades (it's my last semester, give me a break). The two upper level bio courses I signed up for had median grades of A, A- last spring. This spring one of the professors has decided to set the curve at a B- and the other one has decided not to curve at all (leading to 3 A's out of 38 students on the first midterm). So much for staying consistent with those median grade reports.</p>