<p>Yep. And 90% of statistics are made up. :p </p>
<p>Feel free to prove me wrong by citing data that proves you right (earlier in this thread, you made the claim that Yale was ranked #1 in the TPR rankings for overall undergrad education...it was ranked 19th, as the link I provided shows).</p>
<p>I hope, by the way, that you're not a Yalie. I've got a good friend going to Yale, and he's a far more sensible guy. It's best, I think, if he remains that way.</p>
<p>The rankings change from year to year, but recently, Yale was #1.</p>
<p>You can buy an old copy of the ranking, but I won't make you. See:</p>
<p>2004 Princeton Review Rankings:
Best Overall Academic Experience for Undergraduates:
1. Yale
2. Princeton
3. Duke
4. Amherst
5. MIT
6. USAFA
7. USCGA
8. USNA
9. USMA
10. Reed College
11. Wellesley
12. Bates
13. Williams
14. Carleton College
15. Swarthmore
16. Harvey Mudd College
17. Northwestern
18. Columbia
19. Haverford
20. Dartmouth</p>
<p>some sobering "stats" for mr. posterX.</p>
<p>median household income</p>
<p>princeton: $95,710, new haven: $32,092</p>
<p>median home price</p>
<p>princeton: $442,675, new haven: $160,100</p>
<p>colleges, universities, and professional schools</p>
<p>princeton: 16, new haven: 3</p>
<p>personal crime risk (100 is national average; lower is better)</p>
<p>princeton: 6, new haven: 309(!)</p>
<p>property crime risk (100 is national average; lower is better)</p>
<p>princeton: 48, new haven: 255</p>
<p>movie theaters (within 15 miles)</p>
<p>princeton: 17, new haven: 15</p>
<p>restaurants (within 15 miles)</p>
<p>princeton: 2,444, new haven: 1,463</p>
<p>bars (within 15 miles)</p>
<p>princeton: 169, new haven: 29</p>
<p>Those statistics are obviously incorrect, which I suspect you know very well. The median home price in New Haven is much higher than that, and there are 29 bars just within a block of the Yale campus, plus many more, say, two blocks from it! And that's less than 0.1% of New Haven you're talking about.</p>
<p>Sorry, but your website has been known to carry completely incorrect statistics for a long time. The reason they are wrong is because 1) the data they use is incorrect and 2) they compare areas haphazardly with no real delineation of boundaries. </p>
<p>In order to help you out next time, you will find that any accurate site with this kind of data, such as the U.S. Census, begins by giving very specific boundaries, population and other demographic figures before attempting to compare specifics.</p>
<p>San Francisco and New Haven are the two wealthiest cities in the country, as shown below. New York ranks 11th, Princeton ranks 13th, Los Angeles ranks 75th, and Tucson ranks 216th.</p>
<hr>
<p>Wealth comparison of ten U.S. cities</p>
<p>Per Capita Personal Income </p>
<p>Income Rank </p>
<p>Source: Census Bureau (via <a href="http://www.cnt.org/tsp/uic-critique.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.cnt.org/tsp/uic-critique.html</a>)</p>
<p>San Francisco, CA $39,746 1 </p>
<p>New Haven, CT $38,962 2 </p>
<p>New York, NY $33,177 11 </p>
<p>Boston, MA $30,366 16 </p>
<p>Chicago, IL $29,948 18 </p>
<p>Detroit, MI $27,250 36 </p>
<p>Atlanta, GA $27,241 37 </p>
<p>Los Angeles, CA $24,945 75</p>
<p>Las Vegas, NV $24,706 81 </p>
<p>Tucson, AZ $20,535 216</p>
<p>
[quote]
Those statistics are obviously incorrect, which I suspect you know very well. The median home price in New Haven is much higher than that, and there are 29 bars just within a block of the Yale campus, plus many more, say, two blocks from it! And that's less than 0.1% of New Haven you're talking about.</p>
<p>Sorry, but your website has been known to carry completely incorrect statistics for a long time. The reason they are wrong is because 1) the data they use is incorrect and 2) they compare areas haphazardly with no real delineation of boundaries.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Considering that the data comes from a fairly reputed news source, CNN, I find little reason to suspect that any of the above assertions are true. </p>
<p>You've proved me wrong in the past. Please feel free to do so again (with substantiated data).</p>
<p>While you guys toss around all these numbers you're really missing the point of the thread. No college experience can be accurately reduced to numbers. What the OP needs is honest feedback and opinion, not macho boasting matches. </p>
<p>We've already established that both are tremendous schools. The OP has stated that he'd rather go to Yale, but is not crazy about New Haven. Again, I believe that you have to be honest with yourself and trust your own opinion. If Yale is where you want to go to school, you should go there, and if it adds any comfort, New Haven is portrayed as Yale haters as a horrible horrible place, but that's simply not true. Don't turn down Yale because people tell you its a rough campus. It would not be one of the best schools in the nation if it was.</p>
<p>I just hate to see someone turn down their dream school because people are misinforming him.</p>
<p>From the Census Bureau
<a href="http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/main.html?_lang=en%5B/url%5D">http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/main.html?_lang=en</a></p>
<p>Median household income in 1999 (dollars)
Princeton: 94,580
New Haven: 29,604
US Average: 41,994</p>
<p>Median family income in 1999 (dollars)
Princeton: 123,098
New Haven: 35,950
US Average: 50,046</p>
<p>Per capita income in 1999 (dollars)
Princeton: 56,360
New Haven: 16,393
US Average: 21,587 </p>
<p>Families below poverty level
Princeton: 4.2%
New Haven: 20.5%
US Average: 9.2%</p>
<p>These are the most recent figures I could find on the US Census Bureau website (the 2000 census is based on data from 1999). I don't know where your figures came from, but personally I would trust the data directly available on the census website.</p>
<p>There are so many other inaccuracies in your posts, posterX, that I don't see the point in trying to refute all of them. The academic experiences at Princeton and Yale are both excellent; I am sure that the OP will be happy with whichever school he or she chooses in that respect.</p>
<p>posterX, those income figures are for "metropolitan statistical areas," not cities and towns. the new haven MSA likely extends far enough to include many of much wealthier nearby towns in the state of connecticut. considered individually (according to census figures for per capita income in "locations" - i.e. cities and towns), new haven ranks just #234 out of #244 in the state. in other words, 96% of connecticut cities and towns are wealthier than new haven. note that the figure for new haven's median household income is very close to that from CNN/money magazine, whose accuracy you have already trashed. convinced now?</p>
<p>Obviously, central New Haven, defined very strictly as the tiny area around the downtown, has a lower "median" income because there are so many college students! The same is true of New York City. College students have ZERO income. Yale has nearly 12,000 students, but isn't even the largest university in New Haven. Southern Connecticut State University, just a mile or so from Yale, has 15,000 students! New Haven is a happening, young place, with more 25-35 year olds than any other city in the state. In addition to college students and young professionals, places like this also attract a large number of immigrants, particularly from Asia, who go on to open lots of restaurants and stores. They tend to be of a lower income, too. Furthermore, the "median" income says nothing about wealthier residents, like the ones inhabiting million dollar lofts all over New Haven and New York. They aren't the majority of the population, and therefore do not affect the "median" income numbers, but are very wealthy because they own businesses and choose to live in an area that is young, vibrant, walkable, and filled with culture.</p>
<p>Princeton, on the other hand, is just a tiny handful of isolated college students, who live with many boring, old, rich, preppy/snobby suburbanites. It is not a happening place!</p>
<p>However, even that said, it's not a valid way to compare cities unless you take the statistics I posted, which clearly show New Haven is the wealthiest city in the country (other than San Francisco). If you don't use those statistics, it's kind of like trying to make a comparison of one hallway of one dormitory at MIT with all of UC-Berkeley.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And contrary to what some people believe, living in one of these suburban areas is actually much more dangerous than living in a city because of the severely increased risk of car accidents.
[/quote]
Wow. I never thought of it this way. This brings to my mind another thing against Princeton.</p>
<p>People always talk about how much more beautiful the campus is than every place else. And yeah, when I saw the campus a bit ago, I couldnt deny it was amazingly beautiful. All that wonderful gothic stonework and just tons of lush greenery. It was like being in a fairy tale.</p>
<p>But beauty always has some kind of negative thing associated with it. In Princetons case, it could be a big BIG negative. Just think about all that greenery, for a sec. I mean, it is GREEN! Nice and green. What are they trying to hide with that stuff? Why so much of it? And another thing, whats in it that makes it so lush and green? You really think they accomplished all that organically? Sure, a few praying mantises can work wonders on some plants. But for Princeton to get the kind of results theyve gotten, youd need something like, oh I dunno, maybe 100 million praying mantises! Do you REALLY want to take classes amidst a hundred million praying mantises???? I dont think so.</p>
<p>(sheesh)</p>
<p>True, it really is a matter of fairy tale, fake disneyland (Pton) versus the real world (New York/New Haven).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Princeton, on the other hand, is just a handful of college students, who live with many boring, old, rich, preppy/snobby suburbanites.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Heh, I love the neutrality. Not to mention the total lack of stereotypes.</p>
<p>X, i see you've finally backed off your comparison of the two places on wealth, which we have collectively shown princeton to handily win, and have now resorted to characterizing wealth (which you had previously championed) as a <em>negative</em> thing. but, if the number of nearby colleges (and students) depresses wealth but makes a place more "happening" or "real," how do you confront the fact that princeton has 16 such educational institutions to new haven's mere three (see money magazine profiles)? also, i'm curious how princeton is the "fake" campus of the two, when workers famously poured acid over yale's 1930's gothic buildings in order to make them look older and more "authentic." i know of no such shenanigans with princeton's gothic buildings, at least a handful of which date from the 1890s.</p>
<p>I think it's pretty clear from my analysis that when you take the very central area of the city, you are just gathering demographics from a huge number of college students, which skews the results but also shows that New Haven is a much younger, more exciting place (i.e., a typical college town/city). But if you do this, you're really comparing a very tiny area with a broader area - it's like comparing the students living in one dormitory suite with the students living at an entire college.</p>
<p>If you take the wider area of the city, which is the more valid comparison, New Haven and San Francisco are the two wealthiest areas of the country.</p>
<p>Regarding the Money rankings, they are from a buried site within CNN/Money's large network of sites. The data on that site is highly inaccurate, because it does not standardize the way areas are compared. It's pretty obvious to anyone who has been to New Haven that there are more than 29 bars just within a block of Yale, and that this area is just a tiny percentage of New Haven as a whole. </p>
<p>Even just considering central New Haven versus central Princeton, according to the U.S. Census there are 2,056 residents of Princeton between the ages of 25 and 34 versus 22,028 between 25 and 34 in New Haven. If you take the population between the ages of 20 and 24, there are 584 people in Princeton versus over 14,000 in New Haven. If you think Princeton would have "more bars" and "more colleges" than New Haven given these realities, you must be incredibly unfamiliar with the two areas, which I gather to be the case with whoever posted those sites without realizing how hopelessly flawed their data was.</p>
<p>Also, I never said wealth is a negative thing. The million dollar loft apartments being built all over New York and New Haven, and Boston and other cities is an indication of how desirable those cities have become, for wealthy, successful young people in particular. That has nothing to do with the country-club, Hummer-driving, older residents of a suburban strip mall area such as Princeton.</p>
<p>pretty weak stuff. i prefer to rest my case.</p>
<p>Oh please! Whoever said that there's an increased risk of car accidents at Princeton must be out of their ever-loving mind! If you've actually been there, you'd realize that you need barely EVER step off the campus. EVERYTHING is right there!! To step off the campus and into the surrounding suburban town, the risk is still quite small b/c it is a very safe town! People, unlike in NYC and more urban areas, actually obey traffic laws. You can only worry about traffic accidents if you expose yourself (through carelessness) to them. Most people rarely leave the campus, as it has stores and many resources. You can get to the eating clubs by walking a completely safe SIDE-WALK route!</p>
<p>Seriously, some people come up with the most ridiculous reasons to rule out schools! Do not think for a second that a hasty generalization of the suburbs is enough to knock Princeton off the OP's list (or any other reasonable CCer's list for that matter)!</p>
<p>When you compare schools, you actually have to visit, and get a feel for them yourself. DO NOT base your decision on ignorant poster's remarks! You don't know for a fact if they've ever been there. Take everything with a grain of salt, and judge for yourself. That's the best advice I can offer at this point.</p>
<p>I'm a pre-frosh, still waiting a week before the May 1st decisions. I'm leaning towards Princeton, and I'm almost certain it'll be the school I'll choose. If anyone has any questions related to Princeton, I'll be glad to help you from what I know from my visit and my own research. Again, take even my advice with a grain of salt. Ultimately it's your own observations and your heart that will guide you the right way. Not mine. Not a "self-proclaimed Princeton student on CC" and certainly not a "die-hard college critic without a high school diploma."</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>-Jon ;)</p>
<p>Suburbs are fine, and yes, Princeton's campus is pretty confined if you are a pedestrian, especially relative to UPenn or Harvard (where several students have been killed in pedestrian-car accidents).</p>
<p>But, it's good to be aware of the differences, as well as statistically speaking, the much higher death rate due to automobile accidents in suburbs versus cities. Even obeying traffic laws is no protection against higher speeds (in suburbs) and higher amount of car use (because you can't get everything you need within walking distance).</p>
<p>And, I agree, visiting the schools (for a substantial period - not just a one day thing) is the way to tell which one you will love to be at, and which has the happiest students. it's a decision that will stick with you for a long time. That's what the OP has done.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you take the population between the ages of 20 and 24, there are 584 people in Princeton versus over 14,000 in New Haven.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>...? </p>
<p>There are 1200 people per class at Princeton...I don't see how there would be 584 between ages 20 and 24...</p>
<p>Probably not all of those students filled out their Census card, or else they were reported as living with their parents still. (Which skews the numbers even more in favor of New Haven, which has 50,000 college students in the area)</p>
<p>PosterX, I think youre quite confused about the nature of the statistics youre citing. As f.scottie has pointed out, youre looking at statistics for the New Haven MSA. A Metropolitan Statistical Area is enormous. New Haven is a very small geographical part of the New Haven-Milford MSA which, as youll see in the map accessed through the following link, (<a href="http://www.housingbubblebust.com/MetroMaps/MetroMap-NorthEast.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.housingbubblebust.com/MetroMaps/MetroMap-NorthEast.html</a>) (scroll down to find the appropriate map) stretches far up into the wealthy rural areas to the northwest of New Haven in the Waterbury area. New Haven occupies the far southeastern corner of this MSA. Using statistics for the entire MSA tells you very little about New Haven itself. The demographics of New Haven are dramatically different from those in the wealthy areas that are fifteen to twenty miles away but still part of the New Haven-Milford MSA. </p>
<p>I do think New Haven has a reputation that is worse than what it deserves, but there is no denying that the crime rate there is rather high. </p>
<p>Try to cite statistics that are meaningful and representative of New Haven the city as opposed to the enormous area covered by the MSA of which it is a part and youll be more convincing. What youre doing is akin to trying to portray New York City as rural based on population density for the entire state of New York.</p>